Hi,
Next week I will shoot a stage show of 8 to 10 male dancers. Can you guys suggest some affordable lighting options / light sets for me? The guys said they should be under 500 watts or so.

All comments welcome.

I was thinking of the work lights from sears, but think it's tacky? Help ....

anyone? does anyone have suggestions with links? i'd like to buy this week

You can’t just throw a question like that around and expect answers; you have to give more information.

My assumption is that you know very little about lighting and about electricity and probably even less about grips. My suggestion would be to hire someone who has experience and is equipped to do stage lighting.

Anyway these are just a few basic but very important questions to start.

How large of an area are you looking to light?

What your electrical power available?

How high is the ceiling and what's the ceiling made of.

What’s there to hang the lights, you are not going to have stands in a public place.

And most important, what’s your budget.

I do all kinds of dance performances lighted for the camera and like
Nino said, it all depends on each moment of the dance as to what
may be appropriate. I can say that to do a good job usually requires
back, side and front light "washes" that cover the whole dance floor,
usually of several different colors.
Then there are the "specials" to cover spots where unique momemts
occur.

You would be best oft trying to rent a venue where they have
a dance studio set up with lights. Try local colleges, universities
and high schools.

you guys are right, I am clueless!

thier show is next sat night at a night club. it's not a huge production. just a tage approx the size of a high school stage like a small tap ance recital stage.

ceilings probably as high as any night club.

can someone just suggest a decent lighting set that under 500.00?

i appreciate you all ...

i'll make very little on this shoot, but i need some lights anyways ...

Did they say 500W total or for each light. If you are restricted to a total of 500W, that is unreasonable unless you plan to use fluorescents or HMI. Are there existing lights in the location that are already planned to be on?

Unfortunately $500 in this business will get you nowhere; you might start thinking outside productions equipment. If the place has recessed lights fixtures like most commercial establishments have, you might purchase from an electrical suppliers or even a home improvement center bulb extensions, that’s a 12/18” extension that drops the bulb below the ceiling and has a swivel bulb mount that allows you to point the bulb in any direction. Add 150w regular spotlight bulbs (also retail available), and point as many as you can toward the stage from every direction that you can. These bulbs are also available in colors. Not very “production” but it will light the stage and if you take your time in accurately pointing the bulbs it will look decent, much more deserving that the allocated budget.

Hi Kim,

I have been doing theatrical lighting for over 40 years and it's a complex field which gets even more complicated when you want it to look good on video. Aren't there any lights in the venue to start with? I would begin by experimenting with them before spending any money.

Is this strictly a video shoot or does the show also need to look good to a live audience? Are you concerned about what the lights themselves will look like? Worklights on portable stands are pretty ugly.

I really think you need to find someone with a little lighting experience to help you here, there's not a whole lot we can do over the internet with the limited info you've given us. Every high school will have a few kids that are involved with lighting the shows (I was "that kid" myself back in the 1960's :-) Maybe you can find someone like that to help, and they may even have access to some equipment you can borrow or rent cheaply. A local community theatre would be another resource to investigate.

Good luck with your shoot, if nothing else it will be a learning experience you can build upon in the future. Also note that I've had to edit some of the replies here a bit. Please, try to be helpful and constructive with your comments.

I've been taping stage shows for about 6 years.
And in my experience, mostly college theaters,
I've never had an issue using the in house lighting system.

Some stages have very basic theater, so I have to bit of adjusting
in post. But generally the in house lighting has been perfectly fine.

When I get time I will post some footage from the athenaeum theatre in chicago where I just did a stage production with my GL2. I actually wouldn't mind feedback on it.

But overall, embrace the in house system, if there isn't one get lots of bright light.

Hi,
I can not use the inhouse system. Lighting the stage is what I need to do. I said 500.00, but I can spring for a bit more if anyone can suggest a specific light system of approx 500 watts or so per light - or 250 watts per light.

I really appreciate your help guys ...

Just face it, it can't be done with that budget. You might be able to buy maybe two 650 fresnel spot light with that kind of money, not even close to light a stage. Even if you buy a bunch of work lights you still have to find a way to hang them from the ceiling and hardware is not cheap, again not to mention the liability factor should one of those fall down or the potential danger of running a lots of extension cables with an electrical system that you don't know anything about it.

You might consider renting one or two followspots and getting two people to operate them from high in the back of the room.

I would suggest trying to find someone who owns a decent amount
of stage lighting and see if you can get them to do it. Personally, I know
how hard it is to do a gig like you describe and the amount of gear it
takes to be successful. If someone offered my $500, in all honesty I
would turn them down, but there might be some hungry youngster
who might take it on. One thing is pretty certain, you cannot buy
what you need to do a good job with a $500 budget.

What kind of budget would it require to do a minimalist but OK job?

What kind of budget would it require to do a minimalist but OK job?

Clearly it doesn't make sense to buy equipment for a one-shot job like this. Since we're really talking about theatrical lighting here, visit a local vendor who specializes in renting this kind of equipment. ESTA is the professional organization which represents this industry. To find vendors in your town, visit their website here: http://esta.org/memdir/index.php

If you only need the equipment for one or two days the rental cost may be manageable. Make an appointment to visit their shop and discuss the most cost-effective gear. They will have all the right hanging hardware and cables to support it as well. But, as we've been saying, before you even take that step you need to have a general idea of types and quantities of equipment based on the size of the space you're lighting.

Now if you're dead set on buying gear, AND you know what you want, one source would be usedlighting.com which is operated by 4 wall lighting. They're one of of the major lighting rental houses, and a vendor which we use extensively at the Opera Company of Philadelphia.

The problem isn't just lighting instruments themselves, although they
are expensive (one ETC source 4 Leko is about $300.00), there
are other things you must have such as cables, pipe clamps and
other hardware such as gel frames, safety cables
and connectors. Then there is the time to make
all the above into a workable kit. Then, do you want to turn the
lights on and off? You'll need dimmer racks and a P.D.
(Power distrubtion) system. Basically that's a way to tap into
BIG power. Then a lighting board, DMX wire, more connectors, and
on and on and on.

I would try and find someone who has a lighting kit and try to get
them to do this gig for you. If things work out, maybe you can
team up with them and provide the camera services while they do
the lighting.

I do not need theatrical lights. This is a small dancer show. A few models on a small stage, not Carnegie Hall.

Thanks to all that chimed in.

i also do only theater/ studio shots, and go with all the other postings here.

take the 500 and rent a theater for a night incl the light technician.

I do not need theatrical lights. This is a small dancer show. A few models on a small stage, not Carnegie Hall.

Thanks to all that chimed in.

Hire an experienced lighting technician/gaffer to light this the best that you can with the budget that you have. You are wasting time and money trying to buy lights from Home Depot or wherever.

Most lighting techs will have the lights to do what you can afford.

Kim,

I think you'd get a lot more relevant advice if you'd just tell us a few little details.

For example, how many people, how large a stage area, height of the ceiling, a little better description of the stage setting, ie just a bare stage with a few people moving about, whether they're leaping 12 feet into the air or just kind of standing there, how far they're moving about, backdrops that need to be seen or just a darkish wall, whether it's formal ie the audience would object to a bunch of light stands if they could see them, or informal, ie if there were a couple of light stands off to the sides it would still be cool with the audience, or in fact whether there is an audience or not, whether there's a need to be artistic or if just seeing the performers clearly would be enough, what kind of lighting is already there (if any) whether the walls and ceiling are dark or light colored enough to reflect some useful light, etc etc etc.

Without some way of bounding the problem, people will answer from the perspective of their own experience, and if their experience is lighting Broadway extravaganzas or the Radio City Music Hall Rockettes, then you're going to get pretty high end estimates.

I get the feeling that you're frustrated by the answers you're getting, but without a better definition of the problem I don't see any way you could hope for anything better than what you're getting.

Just my worthless opinion.

Hi Jim,

I honestly don't know all of the answers. All I know is I am going to shoot some dancers/models at a show on Saturday night. The event will be held at a club with a stage. I know there will be apptox 8 to 10 dancers/models.

They expect approx 100-150 attendees.

I'm guessing this will be somewhat in the neighborhood of a dance recital, but it's held at night and the dancers are adults.

So, I dont need to rent a studio or hire a lighting technician. I am sure not many did when they lit their first evening, very low light event.

I was simply asking for usable suggestions for lighting.

If others use $10,000.00 lighting systems, that's great. I can not, at this time afford that.

So, if anyone has any suggestions for some affordable lights for a first time dance show shooting, I'd like to hear them. Again, I am not interested in hiring a lighting director or renting a venue. I am hired to shoot this and the pay is approx. $500.00, of which I was hoping to use to buy some lights.

Any suggestions for me, Jim?

Buy two Lowel DP light ($170 ea.) 2 light stands ($60 ea) plus some extension cords and some gaffer tape to secure the electrical cords to the floor. If you have anything leftover add barn doors for the lights ($70 ea.) and some diffusion gel. Fill two gym or any bags with rocks or anything heavy, tie the bags to the bottom of the stand for stability and pray that nobody gets hurt. It will not be a professional lighting job but for $500 is much more that they deserve.

Well if there's an audience then presumably they already have some kind of lighting. Depending on your camera, that might be all you need. Can you do a test shoot there on another night? That might give you an idea which way to go.

Thanks guys! I think I can use Nino Giannotti's advice!

secure the stand with sand bags, or even better with a person right next to the stands. hide and tape all the cables. hopefully the circuits are not overloaded. take spare bulps.
do you have liability insurance? is there an rehearsal?

follow ninos advise ....pray....lol .

Kim, besides your lights, are there any other lights available? If not "stage lights" what about the "worklights" that most any stage has? They might give you some extra fill. Just beware that top lights can give talent "racoon eyes", making the eye sockets look darker. Possibly som diffusion could lessen that effect.

Also, if you have 'wings', (if there are areas of the stage off to the sides that are hidden from the audiences' view by curtains or by the structure itself), you could add some cheap worklights and use them as sidelights. Very common to dance as they emphasize the outer shapes of the dancers. Usually these lights are frome 1' to 5' off the ground, so worklights and their short stands, could be used. $20 or so at Home Depot.

Lastly, in regards to Nino's buying Lowell DPs suggestion. If you do get Lowell DP's, especially if they are using 1,000 watt lamps, you need to check out the circuits at the venue. Theoretically, you could put to 1,000 watt lamps on a 20 amp circuit. (amps x volts = watts). But a fully loaded circuit is really dicey. So should probably find 2 separate, and relatively unused, circuits to plug into. If you have the time, go to the venue when it's quiet and if there is a house tech, ask for circuits you can use. The house techs are usually helpful because they don't want you blowing their circuits.

I use Lowell Omni and Tota lights as a portable lighting system any time I have to set up my own lights. The Omni lights can come with 500w lamps. Most circuit can handle two of these lights. Make sure you're not on the same circuit as the band's amplifier. Use them with the barn doors to limit stray light.

If the stage is small and the lights are fairly close, you can use diffusion paper with the lights. Test with you camera before hand.

Set up the lights from outside the perimeter of the stage, avoiding lighting directly from the front. (Left light to light right side of the stage, right light to light up the left side of the stage. This will reduce hot spots and shadows and avoid blinding the talent. If possible, manually set your camera iris based on the brightest light bouncing off the talents' faces. This will avoid washing out the talents faces because of hot spots.

If you're staying in the business, the Lowell Omni & Tota lights are easy to carry and set up and you will get many years of use out of them. They can be quickly configured for almost any event. This is a solid investment. I would also suggest getting the tallest tripods you can afford. Height is nice.
Allen W

Three 500W worklights should be just fine (with or without heat-resistant diffusion, depending on what intensity you need)
I'm not experienced in fancy set-ups, but I'm pretty experienced when it comes to quick and cheap ;) ...the customer gets what they want, and if they want cheap, then cheap it is...

The main problem would be to position the lights. Can you reach the ceiling with a ladder? Are you allowed to drill holes into the ceiling? If so, you could fix the worklights there with some installation equipment from home depot. On the other hand, if you do such an installation on your own then you should be aware that worklights pose a fire-risk and you could be liable when the whole club burns down...