Hello all,

It is time for me to upgrade my camera system. The V1 is one of my choices.

I am interested in hearing objective feedback on what limitations V1 users have experienced. For instance, do the 1/4" chips have a real impact in low-lighting situations? Do they have a significant negative impact on DOF, focus etc., in a real way.

Anyone using the Hard Drive accessory? Any issues that haven't been mentioned already?

Every camera has limitations, which ones have caused more frustration for you with this one?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

...For instance, do the 1/4" chips have a real impact in low-lighting situations?...
Yes. However, a gain of 6db will *never* be noticed, as the gain processing is quite clean. 9db is usually acceptable. Then, there are the black stretch/compress settings. This may involve a little more post processing, but IMO, the camera is sensitive enough for general use. If you constantly shoot in dark clubs today's small-chip HDV cameras do present some challenges. See the posts from Piotr Wozniacki for some sample shots. Low-light has been a particular focus for him, he's gotten some great results.

...Do they have a significant negative impact on DOF, focus etc., in a real way...
HDV on the V1 tends to be a beautiful image with lots of sharp focus. Difficult to get shallow depth of field.

...Anyone using the Hard Drive accessory?....
Not me, but people posting on this forum have reported good results - search the forum.

Overall, I'm very happy with the camera. Coming from the PD150/170, a rough equivalent in DV-SD, the low-light performance required some new approaches. Adaptations now made, I'm making some beautiful images with this camera.

I'm also interested to see how the new PMW-EX1 camcorder works for low-light and DOF, it has 1/2" chips and no tape mech. Ships next week for abt. $6500 (but you don't need to buy a hard disk recorder), and has a very interesting lens.

Hi,

We use Sony PD150, HC1 and V1 mostly in a church (actually cathedral) environment where low light can be a common issue, especially at this time of year in the UK.

The 150 is stunning in low light. The HC1's really not good enough for some low light stuff (but very good in outside conditions though) and the V1 is certainly better than the HC1 in low light but still a bit disappointing compared to the old workhorse PD150.

Don't get me wrong, the V1 is a superb camera but in low light you will need to use slower shutter and/or gain increase/stretched blacks to make the most of what's available...we're still learning the best options here so I'll let others with better experience chime in (whereas the PD150 would just "do it" no probs, if you know what I mean.) Seth's post above has good info/recommendations where to look for more.

My only other critisism of the V1 is that the lense won't really zoom out wide enough on the standard camera and thus the Sony wide angle (0.8X) really is necessary. So make sure you factor in the the cost (and extra weight and length of that.) I really wish Sony made the V1 so it was a 12X zoom (not 20X) but wider at the other end. Again, read the threads about the various wide angle options/horror stories.......From what I've read the Sony wide angle is the one to go for if you want to keep sharp images etc. We do see some barrel distortion at times with it on (as we are doing a lot of architectural filming) but it's acceptable, at least to my eyes.

It's a great, great camera the V1 but these are the 2 things I'd say you need to consider carefully. Now if you could stretch your budget to the new XDCAM EX....(!!!)

Thanks for the response so far. Great perspective. I too believe the V1 to be a great camera. My post isn't at all to invite folks to put it down, but just like every other camera, there are annoyances that pop up only after you begin to use it everyday.

The wide angle issue is one I haven't investigated a lot. Are you pretty satisfied with it once you install the adapter?

I currently have a Sony HVR-A1U. I have adapted to it's quirks, limited low-light performance, desaturated reds, etc., and I've been happy overall. But I wish I had known then, what I know now.

I have not ruled out the EX as of yet, but it's kind of early. Looks great though.

I have to agree with Andy about how good the PD150, PD170, VX2000 and VX2100 are in low light. (these are all essentially the same camera as far as PQ goes).

I came to the V1 after years of experience with the above cameras - with them you can get a nice image in the viewfinder that is brighter than what your eyes are showing you directly!

After initial shock wore off, and as I gained some experience with the V1, this proved not to be much of an issue.

Regarding wide angle, it depends what you're shooting. Scenics, wide shots on interiors, you really need a WA attachment lens. There's one in my bag right now.

This is another issue discussed at length in this forum, do some searches for more info. Those of us who have bought the Raynox HD7062 have been pretty happy with it (don't zoom in past 70%), it is .7x and inexpensive. The Sony also gets good marks at .8x - I wanted something wider.

Some good objective comments here. I did a test alongside the Z1, and shot for shot the V1 always had more D o F, even though it was generally working at a half-stop wider (due to the lower chip sensitivity).

The 20x lens is great, but oh, it sure needs a wide converter. Canon got the focal lengths right with the A1, so why did Sony back off? Sony's 0.8x is big and heavy, the 16:9 hood is even bigger and when you fit it you have a mild increase in view with noticeable barrel distortion. C'mon Sony.

I loved the slo-mo (if you don't mind the res hit) and the long end of the zoom is a wow.

tom.

Sony's 0.8x is big and heavy, the 16:9 hood is even bigger and when you fit it you have a mild increase in view with noticeable barrel distortion. C'mon Sony.Tom - could you comment on this Z1 vs V1 comaprison please :
If you attacht he 0.8x Sony WA converter and zoom the V1 out to about 32.5mm (i.e. max wideangle of the Z1) and then compare it to the Z1 image when it is zoomed out to max.wideangle (so both images are approx. same mag), how does the barrel distortion compare?

So essentially : Z1 native vs. V1+HG0862 at similar focal lengths : barrel distortion (and also chromatic aberrations / color fringing?).

many thanks in advance

The Z1 barrel distorts most noticeably down the wide end, as do most other camcorder zooms, so it's no reflection on the V1. It's just that the 0.8x exagerates this distortion, but once fitted to the V1 it now sees slightly wider than the Z1 straight out of the box.

I don't have a V1 to test alongside my Z1 any more, but if you asked me to guess I'd say that in the situation you describe the V1 would come off worse in the barrel distortion stakes.

As far as other lens abberations are concerned you've got to remember that the V1 is cheaper than the Z1 yet has a much longer zoom. My brain says something has to give here, nothing's for free. So the V1 most probably has a couple of extra elements in its lineup, and then you add three more slightly off-axis elements (the 0.8x on the squeaky plastic bayonet).

The Z1 lens designers had more money and less zoom to play with. Ergo, it's quite likely to show less abberations.

tom.

Hi Joel. The V1 will give you beautiful and very clean images in both DV and HDV.

But the camera has its limitations. Don`t ever use its OIS when on a tripod, ever. It will completely ruin your shot on a pan or tilt or fast moving action. The picture will appear as if it were jumping and this was present on 4 different V1s I have tested. Even Sony Primesupport Europe confirmes this.

Compared to the old trusty VX2000 / PD150 I found it is not as sharp as these cameras coming straight out of the box, but that can be altered in the menus. I had the VX2000 and the V1 running simultanously on the same object.

It is bad in low light conditions, but that goes for other HD or HDV cameras in this pricerange as well. I used to own a Z1 and two V1s but I am currently using the HVX200 from Panasonic and the JVC201.

The gain however is very useful and acceptable up to 9 DB. If you are doing broadcast ENG they will accept 18DB as well if there is no other choice.

It is narrow in the wide department but I found the 20 x zoom on a good tripod very, very good. If you plan to use an external mic ie the ECM 674 with a windjammer, it will not appear in the viewfinder but it will appear when you play back the footage on a monitor. The micholder is placed to close to the lens.

I found the sound to be too weak or low for interviews and the bass is completely absent. But this is compared with my Panasonic. I do a lot of live events and usually hook the camera to the soundmixer and line in. The line- in never worked on the 4 cameras, neither my suppliers fifth camera. No sound. Swithing it to mic was a different ball game. Instant sound. I tried 4 different soundmixers. But doing concerts you have to lower the levels, and I mean really lower the levels when using the mic in function. But it works if not perfect.

It has extremely good battery life and using a NPF970 battery it will never ever go empty. I did a concert recording with 3 V1s and it kept on running all day and night. I bought 3 batteries but ended up using 1.

It is extremely good in high contrast scenes and it is hard to get washed out or burnt out images. It is very easy to use. The lcd- screen is fenomenal. The competitors are way behind there.

All in all a very good camera, I found it way better than the Z1, but I did not have the Z1 for more than a month and never tried to tweak it in any way.

But it has its limitations. I am doing broadcast work and it just had to many flaws for me to keep them. So I sold them and went back to Panasonic and I will not switch to Sony again.

I hope I have not put you off, but the last year I have tried and owned a A1, two V1s and a Z1 and I was disappointed. I have also tried the XLH1 by Canon but the best cameras for me were the Panasonic and JVC. I have been doing this for a long time and it could be me trying to be to perfect. Then again if my clients aren`t happy, I am not happy and when the broadcaster called and complained about the sound I had to sell them. Pity though, because its images won`t let you down.

Svein,

Hi Joel. The V1 will give you beautiful and very clean images in both DV and HDV.

But the camera has its limitations. Don`t ever use its OIS when on a tripod, ever. It will completely ruin your shot on a pan or tilt or fast moving action. The picture will appear as if it were jumping and this was present on 4 different V1s I have tested. Even Sony Primesupport Europe confirmes this.

That has been my experience with my HVR-A1 as well. I never use OIS.




I hope I have not put you off, but the last year I have tried and owned a A1, two V1s and a Z1 and I was disappointed. I have also tried the XLH1 by Canon but the best cameras for me were the Panasonic and JVC. I have been doing this for a long time and it could be me trying to be to perfect. Then again if my clients aren`t happy, I am not happy and when the broadcaster called and complained about the sound I had to sell them. Pity though, because its images won`t let you down.

You won't put me off. I am trying to be very open minded about my next camera. I know the "brand P is better than brand S and vice versa" has been done to death on this and other forums. I'm not trying to go there. And I know my title is V1 limitations. But if I could just ask you this question since you have the other two I'm looking at... the HVX200 and JVC 100/200... is there that much difference in performance between these 2 and the V1?

I would welcome elaboration, solely based on your own personal experience. Any details would be great.

Svein,

But if I could just ask you this question since you have the other two I'm looking at... the HVX200 and JVC 100/200... is there that much difference in performance between these 2 and the V1?

I would welcome elaboration, solely based on your own personal experience. Any details would be great.

Yes there is. It depends what you intend to use it for. It is great for live- events, easy to use and great picture quality. And it is a bit cleaner or less noisier in DV- mode than the HVX200. But it is ever so slight. You probably wouldn`t notice it but I have direct comparisons of the same image.

The HVX200 is more flexible and has better bitrate in HD- mode. It is easier to hold it steady compared to the V1, though the HVX is more frontheavy and heavier on the shoulder. It is no where close to the battery life, neither is the JVC.

The images produced by the HVX and 201 will give you more clarity. It is hard to explain but the images by the V1 does not look quite like broadcast images. If you intend to go into broadcast, Panasonic and JVC will be the way to go. Do not opt for the 100 or 101 by JVC, they had a lof of issues I have been told.

If you intend to use it for documentaries or as a good travelcompanion the V1 is an excellent choice. But the audio is bad or somewhat strange to deal with. It is extremely easy to to get distorted audio even at low levels.

I did like the V1 and would have kept had it not been for the flaws. But I do like the HVX and JVC better. More professional, more choices, better handling and overall better picture quality due to better lenses. And more durable it seems.

I had a few issues with Final Cut as well because it insisted I had shot progressive even though I shot interlaced.

Which leads me to the next issue. I don`t know what it is like in the States but the broadcasters here will probably opt for the 720/50 p standard as recommended by the EBU. Makes sense though, as all plasma and lcd displays are progressive. And progressive shooting makes great images.

The V1 is a great camera but the JVC and Panasonic are better. I find the professional performance better by these two, which actually became quite clear to me when I had to call Sony Prime Support Europe, regarding the Z1 and asked them a simple question regarding the audio. I was told that the Z1, more expensive than the V1, WAS NOT considered a professional camera by Sony and therefore had to accept its flaws. Not the kind of answer I was looking for.

Have you seen the new cameras by Sony to be released in March? Two new HDV cameras including one handheld HDV camera with interchangeable lenses?
Looks great and should be considered. Though I would still opt for panasonic and JVC. They will not let you down at all.

I was told that the Z1, more expensive than the V1, WAS NOT considered a professional camera by Sony and therefore had to accept its flaws. Not the kind of answer I was looking for.

I know that Sony Professional admit that the Z1 has compromises galore and that the BBC (for instance) are not happy with the HDV route towards HD, but to suggest the Z1 is 'not professional' is just silly. The BBC have bought very many Z1s and the camera is being used 'professionally' by hundreds of people every single day. I am one of those people.

tom.

That has been my experience with my HVR-A1 as well. I never use OIS.

I say this with a smile, but I'm not surprised you don't use OIS with your Sony A1 as it has EIS.

i only have the humbler fx-7 but for me the 20x with d extender is great as its the only camcorder i have had that i can get good wildlife shots without conversion lenses.

The BBC have bought very many Z1s and the camera is being used 'professionally' by hundreds of people every single day.

Add a few shows here in the States including Survivorman, Ice Road Truckers, and Deadliest Catch. I like to say Content is King, Codec is Queen.

To add my two cents, I recently shot with the Z1U while my V1U is in the shop. While the Z1 has more professional features, I like the V1 image better, especially on scenic shots. To me it looks sharper.

I say this with a smile, but I'm not surprised you don't use OIS with your Sony A1 as it has EIS.

True. EIS is SUPPOSED to accomplish the same result... but not even close. I haven't ever really considered OIS as an important consideration because I've never had it to miss. I also don't do much hand held. Even with the small form factor cameras, I end up using them on a tripod or spider brace.




When the V1 came out, I hoped it would be so advanced that it would be the one we all went for, not unlike the Pana DVX100. I have to say that even though I don't own one, it seems from what I've observed through other folk's footage, or even here on this forum, that it fell a bit short.

Truthfully, I was hoping to get responses from folks that own V1's saying things like "are you nuts? The V1 does not have limitations!" or something of that nature.

Unfortunately, in reality, there isn't a camera produced yet, that does not have limitations. Particularly in this price range.

I love the CMOS sensors above all else. Even Thomson/Grass Valley states on their website that in the next 2-5 years, all of their offerings will be CMOS. Red is CMOS. XDCAM-EX is CMOS. My A1u's are CMOS. And the V1 is CMOS.

I just get a sense that Sony went a little short by using the 1/4" Clearvids on this camera, and I think I hear it in the sum average of user feedback.

Anyone is welcomed to straighten my viewpoint thus far...

Truthfully, I was hoping to get responses from folks that own V1's saying things like "are you nuts? The V1 does not have limitations!" or something of that nature.

Unfortunately, in reality, there isn't a camera produced yet, that does not have limitations. Particularly in this price range...

I have written a lot of comments about my satisfaction with the V1; they all can be found in this forum and its subforums. It's very true that "there isn't a camera produced yet, that does not have limitations", but the V1 is very close - simply put, ther is no camera of its size and price that would produce a better picture IMO.

So, take this as another proof of my high regard of the V1: even though I do not make my living on vidoe, I'm not selling my V1 while upgrading to the EX1 - I'm going to keep it as my B camera!

So, take this as another proof of my high regard of the V1: even though I do not make my living on vidoe, I'm not selling my V1 while upgrading to the EX1 - I'm going to keep it as my B camera!

Sweet. That sounds like a great position to be in.

Sweet. That sounds like a great position to be in.

Convince my wife about it... :)

[QUOTE=Svein Rune Skilnand;772966]Hi Joel. The V1 will give you beautiful and very clean images in both DV and HDV.

But the camera has its limitations. Don`t ever use its OIS when on a tripod, ever. It will completely ruin your shot on a pan or tilt or fast moving action. The picture will appear as if it were jumping and this was present on 4 different V1s I have tested. Even Sony Primesupport Europe confirmes this.
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Hello, i m from Brazil, Rio de Janeiro, and i m new here. I v bought a HVR v1u that i think is a defective camera. After some pans and tilts, or when you match this two movements, the image jump. It is not occur during the movement, but after that, when you stop the movement. I v tested a Z1 U and it did not occur.

well, i have a big problem. I bought this camera in USA and Sony Brazil doesn t support me. If i send my camera to USA i have to pay taxes to bring it back. It corresponds a 60 % of the camera price. It is a big problem.

I went to a sony technical support and they didn t identify the problem. Nobody in B&H, where i bought, and in technical support have heard about this problem. Is there anybody here has or had the same problem?

thks a lot

I use OIS a whole bunch while on a tripod, and it works just fine. Of course, my tripod is sitting on a spring-form floor, and people walking by certainly do cause a bit of rocking and vibrating. And I don't do very much in the way of pan & tilt...

If I were on a solid surface on a tripod, then I wouldn't see a need to use OIS in the first place.

I've been very happy with my V1U. My only regret is the 1/4 chips--I *almost* got the Canon A1 because of that.

Matt - the 1"/3 Canon chips have got to be better - and the XH-A1 has more wideangle, too. But oh, your sidescreen is better. Pros and cons, hey?

I'm mighty surprised to read all this about the V1's OIS as it uses the same vibrating elements principle as my FX1 and Z1. Neither of these cameras need their SSSS turning off when used on a triopd, and that's in the normal, soft and wide OIS positions. I haven't tested the 'hard' position.

In fact as a wedding shooter I'm on and off the tripod all day long. I'd find it a right pain if I had to constantly remember to switch on and off depending on where I'm at. I'd suggest that Francis' V1 has a problem, not the model as a whole.

tom.

I'd suggest that Francis' V1 has a problem, not the model as a whole.

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I think that is true. Well, i have a huge bad luck. I ll try to fix it here and pay for. But the difficult will be detect the problem, because it not occur all the time. And the image jump up, down, right and left, depends on the movement. Sometimes during the movement, but normally after that. Because of the characteristic of this problem - jumping for all directions -, i think that the both sensors are defective. Maybe the whole system. I m so sad!!!

I get "jumpy" pans on a tripod if I have OIS on, and if even sometimes if I crash zoom while framing a shot whether handheld or tripod. It seems to be worse if you set the stabilizer to be "hard".

I turn the stabilzier off, I get no jumps. I have this tied to one of the front custom buttons, so it's no big drama to knock it on or off quickly - assuming I actually remember to do so!

In fairness, the manual does tell us to turn the OIS off on tripods and not to use the "hard" setting if you're going to pan or tilt.

[I get "jumpy" pans on a tripod if I have OIS on, and if even sometimes if I crash zoom while framing a shot whether handheld or tripod. It seems to be worse if you set the stabilizer to be "hard".

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i think that in my case is different. It is no like Junpy. The image jump in fact after the movement or sometimes during that. Wird.

The V1 isn't the only camera that needs the OIS turned off when on a tripod. The erratic behavior is most evident when a camera with OIS is on a tripod and zoomed in tight. I am very happy with the performance with the OIS on the V1 when it is needed. I mounted the V1 in my truck and drove around town and got much better video than expected considering the poor road conditions and imperfect suspension in my vehicle. The image looked stable while the hood of the truck was bouncing up and down. That means the stabilization was doing it's job. Once I framed the video to not include the vehicle, it looked nice and smooth with only a little motion blur during rough pavement. I increased the shutter speed to eliminate the blur.

I have few disappointments with the V1. It isn't perfect, but it also doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars. It is much more camera than my previous VX2000 except in low light. I am not disappointed with the low-light capability as it is better than many SD cameras that were not as good as the VX/PD cameras but still well-liked. It only seems fair that to get the same performance in HD as the PD/VX had in SD that it will cost more money (i.e. the HDCAM EX1).

[I get "jumpy" pans on a tripod if I have OIS on, and if even sometimes if I crash zoom while framing a shot whether handheld or tripod. It seems to be worse if you set the stabilizer to be "hard".

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i think that in my case is different. It is no like Junpy. The image jump in fact after the movement or sometimes during that. Wird.

Francis does your camera display the same problem with the OIS off? If it don't then problem solved. If you try and create problems on your V1, then all you are going to do is spend a lot of money, and when you get the camera back from service, it will be no different then what you have now.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with your unit. My suggestion is also Sony's, and that is to turn OIS off when on a tripod. You can always assigned this as a custom button. Also, avoid as much as possible using the hard setting on the OIS.

Don't assume that you have a lemon because the camera is not running exactly to your liking. Test it out with the OIS off. If it still displays the same issues, then you have a problem. If it don't, then you're good to go and have to accept the OIS issue as a limitation of the unit.

It only seems fair that to get the same performance in HD as the PD/VX had in SD that it will cost more money (i.e. the HDCAM EX1).

That would be the XDCam EX. I don't believe HDCam has an EX model.

Sorry. Yes, it is XDCAM and not HDCAM. Here is a link to the exact camera:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/520761-REG/Sony_PMWEX1UC_PMW_EX1_XDCAM_EX_SxS.html

It looks like a fantastic camera but it will be more than twice the cost of the V1 once a few memory cards are factored. Perhaps the real upgrade from the V1 is the Z7 but that is also more expensive and it looks a bit larger. For the price, the V1 is still a very nice camera.

Francis does your camera display the same problem with the OIS off?

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No, John, i forgot to say that. It is a OIS problem. When it is off, no jump. But i v tested a Z1, which some say have the same problem, and the image didn t jump. I m really afraid to send my camera to USA and it returns the same. I really don t know what to do. I will turn off the steady and go work, because time is money and i cant stop now. If i confirm that my unit has a problem or find a cheep way to send and return my camera i ll try to fix it ... or not. I don t know. I know only that my next camera will not be Sony.

You must turn OIS off whenever you shoot from a tripod. This is not a "problem," it is simply a limitation of OIS. There is nothing wrong with your camcorder and it is working properly. The way you describe OIS, it is working properly. Changing cameras will not make a difference... any camcorder using OIS (whether it is Sony, Canon, JVC, Panasonic etc). will do the exact same thing. That is why the manual says to turn OIS off when shooting from a tripod.

Instead of changing camcorders, simply turn OIS off when shooting from a tripod -- problem solved.

Don`t ever use its OIS when on a tripod, ever. It will completely ruin your shot on a pan or tilt or fast moving action. The picture will appear as if it were jumping and this was present on 4 different V1s I have tested. Actually it will be present on every single camcorder ever made that uses OIS. This is not a "problem." It is simply a limitation of OIS. Always turn it off whenever shooting from a tripod.

But there again Chris and I differ. I'm on my seventh Sony and my first Panasonic and all of them have OIS and none of them suffer the very obvious faults that Francis describes. Not one of them have I had to switch the OIS off when used on a tripod, though I do (if I remember) when I'm transferring film to video. Switching it on or off makes not the slightest difference so I'm not sure why I do this apart from 'following the instructions'. And as many will know on these boards I'm a fussy sort of chap when it comes to picture quality.

tom.

With all due respect, I also differ on that. Apart from very extreme situations (also not necessarily atributable to OIS), I don't have to switch it off when on tripod at all.

I should better testing another V1U to conclude if i have a defective unit. But in Brazil i v never seen anyone using this model so far. The Z1 is most common.

I have a DVX 100, Cannon GL2 and a Sony V1 and all of them need to have the OS turned off on a tripod to get a smooth pan.

There are variations of OIS effectiveness. The higher quality, more effective OIS mechanisms really need to be turned off for tripod use. Also, the sturdier and more stable the tripod, the more important it is to turn off OIS. For example all Canon camcorders will exhibit the OIS "jump" at the end of a zoom or pan. You might not notice it on a lower grade tripod or a lower end OIS mechanism. Sony's Super SteadyShot -- when it's optical and not electronic -- is just the Canon Lens Shift or VAP technology under license.

Chris, does the image literary jump after the movement, or during sometimes? Even on handheld shots? My camera has this approach. It doesnt happen all the time, and it happens only on pan and tilt, or when they are combined - not on zoon movement. To occur on handheld shots, you must do the movement very steady and perfect. On tilt and pan combined, the jump tend to be more frequently, both on tripod and handheld shots. On tele shots, the jump is bigger. But the image jumps independent of wide or tele shots. I didnt notice any difference if the OIS is on hard, standard, soft or wide convert preset. Maybe on hard preset the image tends to jump more than on other presets, i dont know.

It is important to say that the OIS works perfectly and i can perceive clearly the difference between the presets. The steadyshot is very effective in almost all situations. Even on tripod, if the image doesnt jump, i dont notice any unwanted effect. I can do some pans and tilts on tripod. As i said before, the problem doesnt occur all the time. I d tried to identify patterns and a figured that it occurs on long pans and tilts - more frequently when they are combined -, in a certain speed, and when you stop firmly the movement.

This is the better i can describe my V1 OIS problem in english - maybe in portuguese too :)

OIS bumps and jumps have been a frequent topic of discussion here ever since I started this site back in 2001. An OIS bump (or jump, whatever you want to call it) occurs at the end of a zoom and the end of a pan or tilt. The greater the focal length (that is, the more telephoto the zoom), the bigger the jump appears.

You must understand that the objective of OIS is to dampen any slight unwanted movements that occur when holding the camera by hand (and it works only when you are doing your best to hold the camera as steadily as possible to begin with). The best OIS mechanisms are designed to compensate for a particular range of frequencies, such as the blood coursing through the veins of your hands and the motion your chest and shoulders make when you inhale and exhale normally. In some cases the frequency range is broad enough to compensate for the normal vibrations felt in an automobile when driving down a smooth road (such as Canon's "Super Range" VAP for instance).

When the camera is mounted on a tripod, there is no unwanted motion for OIS to fight... therefore the only motion it can compensate for is intended motion, such as a deliberate pan or zoom. OIS tries hard to counteract this motion and this is the cause of the jump at the end of a pan or zoom. OIS is simply trying to do its job, but the only motion it can attempt to "correct" on a tripod is that motion which you wanted in the first place -- and as a result it is working against you in that particular circumstance. That's why the manual says "turn off OIS when shooting from a tripod." That's why we say it too.

In situations where the tripod is outdoors in the wind, or if the tripod is lightweight and not very sturdy, or if it is a monopod, then usually you will not see an OIS bump in those conditions. Also some Sony camcorders offer various degrees of OIS effectiveness via menu selection, and the softer ones won't show a bump while the hard setting will. And a lower-grade OIS mechanism might not show it at all because it wasn't very effective in the first place.

Thanks Chris for the great explanation.

I have a V1 and yes, I also notice this happening. I also know its not a defect in the camera.

The image will jump under certain situations when the OIS attempts to catch up from a prolonged movement in a single direction. It is nice that the V1 has a soft setting on the OIS and SOFT does reduce this effect. The only improvement I could suggest is to increase the time the camera waits before it tries to make the correction and causes the jump in the video.

I turn OIS off when I'm shooing things from a tripod and will be moving the camera. A little shake won't be noticeable under those conditions. BUT I turn it on if I'm shooing LONG zooms with little movement. It does a good job of taking out that little shake that can be seen if you are on the wooden floor of an old building with people walking around or you touch the tripod or something like that.

Sony owners should be grateful for the ability to map OIS on / off to a convenient user button... on the Canon XH camcorders the option is buried in the menu, which is a real nuisance.

As frustrating as OIS can be on any camera when it bumps and jumps, as Chris puts it, I don't think it is a V1 limitation alone. Many cameras exhibit the same annoyances under certain conditions.

I appreciate the input about V1 limits and "loves", and the primer on OIS.

Anyone else have input regarding this camera? I haven't really heard anyone comment on the hard disk option. I assume it works great. I've read other threads where users have experienced minor issues.

Is there anything the V1 can accomplish that another can not? (I guess that would sort of be the opposite of V1 limitations..)

Thanks everyone for your input.

Joel

joel, exactly what do you want it for? i'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread, which i read, but haven't the time to reread.

if you're doing something like weddings, then the simplest option is to hire one, shoot a wedding, and ditto the alternative cameras, then edit with your nle and compare end results.

if you do more varied work, then there's a whole raft of considerations that come into play....

i started by thinking i wanted the z1 - but after hiring one found it too heavy and cumbersome for my style of camera-work (having used a pd170 previously). i then looked at the canon a1, but immediately discounted it due pretty much to the fact i have relatively small hands and operating the rocker was really uncomfortable, and that its build quality, at least on the one i tried out, seem a bit poor. i hired a v1 and, considering the alternatives, opted for it.

i HATE the locked levels on one mic input, such a bloody stupid decision sony made, and as mentioned, ois can be annoying if i forget to switch it off when shooting on legs, otherwise, i'm very happy.

if you have specific questions, i'm sure those here will be only too happy to answer...

leslie

As frustrating as OIS can be on any camera when it bumps and jumps...It's not at all "frustrating" when you understand *why* it happens, as I've explained above. There are times when you need OIS and there are times when you should turn it off so that it's not working against you, and these situations are pretty much straightforward: when you're not using a tripod or when you are using a tripod. I wouldn't call it frustrating to remember to switch off a setting when using a tripod. It's just a matter of knowing how your camera works, and when to use a function vs. when not to use it.

What do you mean by locked levels?

joel, exactly what do you want it for? i'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread, which i read, but haven't the time to reread.

if you're doing something like weddings, then the simplest option is to hire one, shoot a wedding, and ditto the alternative cameras, then edit with your nle and compare end results.

if you do more varied work, then there's a whole raft of considerations that come into play....

i started by thinking i wanted the z1 - but after hiring one found it too heavy and cumbersome for my style of camera-work (having used a pd170 previously). i then looked at the canon a1, but immediately discounted it due pretty much to the fact i have relatively small hands and operating the rocker was really uncomfortable, and that its build quality, at least on the one i tried out, seem a bit poor. i hired a v1 and, considering the alternatives, opted for it.

i HATE the locked levels on one mic input, such a bloody stupid decision sony made, and as mentioned, ois can be annoying if i forget to switch it off when shooting on legs, otherwise, i'm very happy.

if you have specific questions, i'm sure those here will be only too happy to answer...

leslie

I shoot documentary style interviews, commercials and shorts for a church here in Jacksonville. Additionally I record live events with multi camera shoots at least twice a week.

I record live events uncompressed straight to hard disk via a switcher. That works great. Going portable is a completely different issue. I have yet to try a firestore type solution because it doesn't seem it improves the video quality itself. Maybe the HDMI solutions will be better.

I don't have any more specific questions about the V1. But I am always looking for that person to weigh in with a "gotcha", that you won't know about until it is in your hands. The pros and cons of V1, vs. HVX vs. HD100 Vs A1 etc. etc., have definitely been discussed on this forum in great lengths.

The OIS discussion came up because I asked people to weigh in on issues that come up while operating the V1. I think it was beneficial for me.

That's all I'm after. Additional perspective. I am probably purchasing one this week. I haven't found one person that USES the V1, that has expressed regret for purchasing it. Every camera has challenges to work around, some limitation. And you usually don't see it until you unwrap it.

I have a lot of respect for the folks that post on this forum. There is more usable info here than any other forum I visit. If someone ways in with bad info here at DVi, it will be set straight in a hurry.

Again, thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread.

Just a thought Joel. If you're serious about audio you might want some sort of iron written guarantee that you can swap-out the V1 for another camera if you're in any way dissatistfied with the audio quality, whether you use the inbuilt, or expensive external microphones. Some V1's have got through that are simply not up to scratch.

tom.

Joel,

For walkie-talkie type stuff you will not have any issues with audio on the V1. If you were going to do serious music videos or other application needing high resolution audio then I would suggest a stand alone recorder. Audio recording is one place where compromises were made with HDV. This isn't a V1 issue but a HDV format issue. BUT unless you need CD quality or better it won't be a problem.

I have the matching Sony hard drive and I absolutely LOVE this combo. I rarely put a tape in the V1 now. My only gripe is the missing tape icon that continuously flashes in the middle of the viewfinder when you are not shooting with a tape in the cam.

Thanks for the response so far. Great perspective. I too believe the V1 to be a great camera. My post isn't at all to invite folks to put it down, but just like every other camera, there are annoyances that pop up only after you begin to use it everyday.

The wide angle issue is one I haven't investigated a lot. Are you pretty satisfied with it once you install the adapter?

I currently have a Sony HVR-A1U. I have adapted to it's quirks, limited low-light performance, desaturated reds, etc., and I've been happy overall. But I wish I had known then, what I know now.

I have not ruled out the EX as of yet, but it's kind of early. Looks great though.

I would recommend you take a look at our wide angle attachments for the V1U. The .65x is our most popular as it will give you a 35% wider field of view with full zooming capabilities. Below is a link to all of our accessory lenses for the V1U.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/century/dv/hvr-v1u/hvr-v1u.htm

Ryan Avery
Regional Sales Representative
Schneider Optics

Sorry to return to OIS issue, but it is annoying me. I still had no opportunity to test other V1. But a cameraman witch works with V1 told me that he uses two cameras and neither of them shows this issues. He told me that he v heard a lot about of the OIS concerns, but his cameras don t jump the image when the steady is on, both on tripod and handheld. He is a cameraman and i m a journalist. Recently i started to do my job on my own and i started to record with my camera my own news and myself. I m a broadcast tv reporter. As long as my camera got in my hands i noticed the image jumping. It is not possible that he, a professional cameraman, didnt notice that, thought he had listened about the OIS problem. He think - and so do i - that some cameras have this problem and the majority units dont. Maybe some series cameras are defective, i dont know. I v tested a Z1U and didnt notice any jump. And, please, trust in my ability to easy detect the jump.

Is it normal or a defect? thats the question.