Just to let everyone know that Sony have updated the software for reading and exporting EX1 files on the www.sonybiz.net website so it now handles all types of EX footage.

Awesome news Simon!

And I can confirm that it works as I've just re-wrapped 100 or so 1920x1080 files to MXF (zero quality loss, no recompresion needed) with it and loaded them straight onto a Vegas 8 timeline. :-)

Could you share just one of these files? Even a frame would do.
Thanks anyway, Simon.

Simon do you have Final Cut to try it?

The Mac software is different to the PC one. The Mac will need the new version of the transfer software.

But in answer to your question, I do indeed have FCP to try it on :-)

And I can confirm that it works as I've just re-wrapped 100 or so 1920x1080 files to MXF (zero quality loss, no recompresion needed) with it and loaded them straight onto a Vegas 8 timeline. :-)

Excellent. My Avid loves MXF. Just curious, how long did it take the software to convert/rewrap 100 files?

Thanks Simon,

If you have the time it would be nice to know how easy it is to get 1920 x 1080 HQ into a FC time line.

Thanks you for all of you help learning the new EX over the last month.

It takes seconds to rewrap the file to MXF. Takes about as long as it would take to copy the file from one hard drive to another.

Thanks Simon that is good news as I expected. I look foward to shooting with the camera once it arrives.

Excellent. My Avid loves MXF. Just curious, how long did it take the software to convert/rewrap 100 files?

Hi David,
I see you're an Avid user (so am I). Will this conversion/wrapping process work for users of Avid Xpress Pro?
Thanks,
Malcolm

Hi David,
I see you're an Avid user (so am I). Will this conversion/wrapping process work for users of Avid Xpress Pro?
Thanks,
Malcolm


Malcolm,

Yes. Avid Xpress and Media Composer has been able to use MXF for sometime now. I'm thinking though that HQ files might have to be converted, after the MXF rewrap, to a DNXHD type file because currently there isn't an MPEG 2 35mbit codec for those platforms. So I'm guessing that may end up being a slow process. On import you'll have to choose a DNXHD codec like DNXHD 145 or DNXHD 110. Hopefully Avid will quickly adopt a new long GOP 35mbit setting like they did for HDV "smart splicing" in a "near future" release.

But, I'm sure you will be able to edit in any number of project types, including 720/60p, 1080/24p, etc.using DNXHD and use MXF vs. OMF.

However, the SP datarate 25mbit should currently work fine, and should be much faster injest in an HDV project setting.

Also , Avid Liquid 7.2 is also MXF compatible and as I understand edit all flavors of MPEG 2 natively.

For compatibility you'll have to speak with Avid. I'm afraid I do not know much about Avid compatibility in this regard.

And I can confirm that it works as I've just re-wrapped 100 or so 1920x1080 files to MXF (zero quality loss, no recompresion needed) with it and loaded them straight onto a Vegas 8 timeline. :-)


Any chance we can share these files and get them tested in CS3 as well? I'm desperate to find out how they'll work!

I'm afraid I will be unable to share the files for copyright reasons. Although I will endeavor to shoot some test shots for this purpose and perhaps make them available for download. I can't guarantee anything though as I will be very busy over the coming weeks.

Just shoot 2 seconds of the floor if you have to (unless you have a copyright on your floor)

I installed 1.0 on my mac when it first came out. Then I installed 1.1 but I dont see that it is reading that I updated? Anyone else with this problem?

Here is a picture of what I get under preferences...

Just shoot 2 seconds of the floor if you have to (unless you have a copyright on your floor)

I think you'd need something with sync sound to do a proper MXF test...

Avid (AFAIK) specifically supports Sony's MXF format (OP1A). I'm sure it couldn't directly play these clips as at the moment it only supports the 1440 x 1080 raster size in HDV. I'm not sure the bitrate would be an issue - if it's an MPEG 2 codec with the same GOP should look the same to an HDV system - just harder to decompress (because its variable).

I installed 1.0 on my mac when it first came out. Then I installed 1.1 but I dont see that it is reading that I updated? Anyone else with this problem?

Here is a picture of what I get under preferences...

Same issue here. Perhaps they failed to change the V number?

Just thought I'd note. ClipBrowser will not run on G5 Mac. Requirements show Intel Core 2 Duo 1GHz or higher

HQ files might have to be converted, after the MXF rewrap, to a DNXHD type file because currently there isn't an MPEG 2 35mbit codec for those platforms. So I'm guessing that may end up being a slow process//
Avid Liquid 7.2 is also MXF compatible and as I understand edit all flavors of MPEG 2 natively.

Thanks for your reply, David. I'm hoping that because Avid has it all figured out for Liquid, they may not take too long to make Xpress Pro MXF compatible. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Cheers,
Malcolm

Thanks for your reply, David. I'm hoping that because Avid has it all figured out for Liquid, they may not take too long to make Xpress Pro MXF compatible.


There is zero connection between Liquid and Avid. Liquid is now back with Pinnacle and is built in Germany. Avid only needed the Smart GOP patents from Pinnacle, not the code.

Liquid supports what it does because it was built, by FAST, from the ground-up as an MPEG-2 NLE. Something Avid is not.

There is zero connection between Liquid and Avid//
Liquid supports what it does because it was built, by FAST, from the ground-up as an MPEG-2 NLE. Something Avid is not.

Thanks Steve... I didn't know that. Now I'm back to wondering how long it'll be before Xpress Pro catches up to the EX1. I know there are workarounds in the meantime...
Cheers,
Malcolm

The direct link for the download is at:

http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/ShowContent.action?site=biz_en_GB&contentId=1193315622075

Simon's link takes you to the homepage and you have to navigate around a little to get to the download page.

I downloaded it again today and yes, it is reporting it as version 1.0 but that could be an error. As I don't have a camera yet I can't tell.

FYI, for all you Mac users out there, I just did a test install on a Leopard system and it seemed to install just fine (just the clip browser software, not the driver).

Obviously I could not test that either and I mention it here purely as a data-point.

However, the Sony folks have mentioned that it runs only with INTEL Macs. There is going to be problems if they don't make it a Universal binary cause a lot of folks are still on Power PC processors.

-gb-

The update is only relevant to PC owners. The PC software rewraps the footage to MXF, and that's what this update fixes. The Mac software is just a viewer.

Yes, I both a PPC Dual G5 and an Intel Mini. The clip browser only ran on the Mini. I wouldn't be surprised if they're a fair number of small post houses who bought Quad G5s at the end and now they're faced with having to replace them.

Addendum to Simon. The Mac software is JUST a viewer JUST on Intel Macs.

However, the Sony folks have mentioned that it runs only with INTEL Macs. There is going to be problems if they don't make it a Universal binary cause a lot of folks are still on Power PC processors.

-gb-

Someone kept footages made by the EX1 in a exhibit in Paris.
Here is the link where you can download mp4 files.
http://www.vecomvideo.com/pages/test_ex1.htm

This may or may not be an issue.

What will really count is whether the actual transfer software in FCP is compatible with non Intel Macs.

Simon, could you explain how the footage is captured in to final cut for me?

Does it use FCP's log & transfer window to choose files taken from the SxS media or does it use a separate plug-in or other external software?

Many thanks

Paul.

Thanks Steve... I didn't know that. Now I'm back to wondering how long it'll be before Xpress Pro catches up to the EX1.

On the Avid list, someone claimed EX is "already supported" on the Avid because "its XDCAM HD." I'm not so sure.

I'm also wondering about 1080p24 support. Both FCP and Avid do NOT remove 2-3 pulldown on long-GOP HD video.

I need to spend the weekend trying to catch up. Right now I'm downloading some EX files.

Someone kept footages made by the EX1 in a exhibit in Paris.
Here is the link where you can download mp4 files.
http://www.vecomvideo.com/pages/test_ex1.htm

The Mac ex browser does not see these files.

It worked for me. Open Clip Browser and use File/Import/
Then use "..." and select the clip. Then use Add. Repeat for all three clips. Select OK.

For an additional treat use Viewer/View Full Screen.

Keep in mind the Clip Browser only works on Intel Macs. Clip Browser will not open on a G5. You'll get a compatibility warning message.

The Mac ex browser does not see these files.

It worked for me. Open Clip Browser and use File/Import/
Then use "..." and select the clip. Then use Add. Repeat for all three clips. Select OK.

Thank you! It does work.

This sure is a non-intuitive way of finding clips given the Browser has a window already pointed at the Movies folder. Amazing it can't see the clips in the folder. Moreover, given the application was designed for this purpose, I would not think IMPORT is the right command. I would think OPEN.

And, finding and ADDing one at a time -- give me a break.

Also, I haven't found a way to rename the clips.

Interesting there is no notation of what the upper-left window does verses the lower window. Mac apps as simple as this should be obvious in their operation. As EZ as a Browse window, Player window, and an Export button.

Whoops, where is the Export function?

I guess I expected it would convert to a QT movie using the XDCAM HD codec. Just how is this supposed to move MP4 files into FCP?

PS 1: what's the blue arrow?

PS 2: Note the lack of HELP! I could written a better app in RealBasic that would be cross-platform and worked on any Mac. I hope Sony didn't pay much for this!

PS 3: For JVC's FullHD harddisk camcorder, JVC supplied a driver that lets its files show and play in the Finder and QT Player. This seems a much smarter way to INTEGRATE EX files into OS X. Why a Browser when we all have a QT Player?

I hope Sony didn't pay much for this!

I agree, if this is the app we have to use in order to watch clips then it's the first thing I've seen that makes me think twice about the workflow, it's badly designed and not at all intuitive. I too gave up with it until I saw that it's possible to import.

I also tried the XDCAM Transfer application (v1.1) on these mp4's and it doesn't recognize them either.

And what's with the strange rolling effect in the first two clips, could this be the result of somebody playing with the shutter angles?

Paul.

All three clips show they were recorded in Slow and Quick Motion mode if you look at Properties. Two are 1920x1080 and one is 1280x720. All show as 25p.
Two show Feb creation dates and one shows Oct. Somebody messing with the internal clock?

25p; MPEG2HD35_1920_1080_MP@HL The first clip!!!

Avid Liquid: Tried importing the unconverted MP4 in. It looked like the app saw it as mp4 but on import it locked up on 3 tries. So, using the clip browser I rewrapped to MXF. So fast I thought that it screwed up. Then it imported very quicky. Was able to setup a 1080p/25 timeline and it dropped right with no problems. So, Liquid works fine after MXF rewrap and the import took less than 5 seconds.

Avid Xpress Pro: Tried importing the MXF clip into a 1080p/25 project. It saw the clip, and looked like it imported as DNXHD 120. But all I got was a green screen on playback.

I tried converting using MPEGstreamclip and versdion 1.1 would not recocgnize the mp4, So I downloaded the new beta Win version and it saw the mp4 but said it had no video or audio. So with Xpress/Media Composer, you would have to find a way to convert to a QT DNXHD.

I'll keep playing with a possible conversion routine. But, I can confirm Avid Liquid works great with MXF at the MPEG codec..

Yes,
what is going on with the weird shutter effect in files 058B0102_01.mp4 & BBC20072_01.mp4 ? Very strange. Someone must of been playing with the settings?

I don't see it it the fast motion BBC20076_01.mp4 file.

Also, I agree with Steve Mullen. It took me a few minutes to figure out I had to use import and add each file one at a time - odd...
Also, why no transport controls when viewing full screen.

Other than that, this camera sure resolves a lot of detail!
Can't wait!

While all three clips show as Slow and Quick motion in properties I wonder if there's some way to see other metadata. If we could see the shutter speed it might explain some of the odd things people are seeing.

When importing I get a folder called
BPAV
in that is another folcer called
CLPR
in that I get 3 more folders, each with an MP4 and XML file
also in BPAV is
cueup.xml
mediapro.xml
another folder called
TAKR
that folder doesn't have anything in it.

The flicker sure looks like it may be the effect of the rolling shutter with the fluorescent lights used at the show. Could the shutter speed be adjusted to compensate for this issue?

The more I look at it, I'd say on reasonably confident this strobe effect is due to the fluorescent lights.
It may be due to older low-frequency-ballast fixtures. Newer fixtures have a faster response time.

This brings up a question.
How should the XDCAM EX1 hold up under concert lighting?
We plan on using ours for concert events?

Would there be a recommended frame rate / shutter setting to minimize these possible artifacts?

It looks that way to me too (fluorescent lights issue). That's why I'm wondering what shutter speed was used.

EX1 has a "clear scan" feature some I'm wondering if there's some way to lock it in to the light's flicker even if one has to walk it in manually.

The flicker sure looks like it may be the effect of the rolling shutter with the fluorescent lights used at the show. Could the shutter speed be adjusted to compensate for this issue?

The more I look at it, I'd say on reasonably confident this strobe effect is due to the fluorescent lights.
It may be due to older low-frequency-ballast fixtures. Newer fixtures have a faster response time.

Thanks Craig.
The manual reads ECS (Extended Clear Scan) mode "Specify the shutter by frequency. This mode may be used to shoot the monitor screen eliminating horizontal bands."

I wish I knew more about this feature. Does it give the option to increment the shutter speed?

I'm sure the flickering is just the result of the fluorescent lights in that room - the thing that I'm wondering about is the banding in the motion blur. Look at clip 058B0102_01.MP4 and pause as the camera pans back to the right - you can clearly see three bands in the motion blur along the figures, looks like artificial motion blur with too few samples.

This shot does seem to have excessive motion blur relative to the speed, looks like it's using a slow shutter speed - could this be the result of using 'frame accumulation'? I saw that referenced in the EX1 literature and assumed it meant combining multiple frames in order to increase sensitivity, which might cause this effect. I don't see it in the other clips (watching these in VLC, by the way - only thing that I could get to open them on my G4 powerbook).

I wish I knew more about this feature. Does it give the option to increment the shutter speed?

ECS is, like the decription says, for shooting things like computer monitors and TV's. In this mode you can adjust the frequency to match that of the screen you have in the background to eliminate flicker and light/dark banding.

So are these so called artifacts ("banding"/"wobble") avoidable under
those lightings conditions or is it something we have to live with ?

This is not wobble.

I'd say no. The person capturing the footage at the show did not spend the time to set the camera up under those lighting conditions.

The flicker in the file 058B0102_01.mp4 looks like 50hz fluorescent lighting "beating against" the 24fps or 30fps photography.

That could be eliminated with a 1/25, 1/50 or 1/100 sec shutter, assuming those settings are available at 24p.

On another note, that footage, in all of its modesty, looks amazing! Really looking forward to shooting with this camera.

A note on the clip browser software itself: it's so primitive, that the viewer window can only adopt 2 sizes: defalt (small), or full screen (controls not visible). Frankly, this is the first time I cannot resize a window of a Windows program...

Dear Sony, if you are reading this - please fix it asap!

The PDZ-1 software on the PC has always been very agricultural in its design to put it nicely.

It was obviously made by programmers for programmers!

Frankly, I find the Clip Browser Software poorly designed.
It could look and function Vegas-like.