Hi everyone, how is it going so far with the night all over the planet?

This is the thread where we talk about what is going well, and what is not exactly as planned, and everything in between.

Keep the stories coming!

Sun is still up here. Its just taking so long for it to go down. Luckily, daylight savings time ends Saturday night, so night will come earlier come Sunday night.

Our daylight saving ended last weekend.

Right now it's hardly any clouds, and lots of stars out there. Optimistic as I was, I went out with my camera wanting to capture the sky.
I learned one thing, the stars do not produce enough light for my camera.
(except for the big yellow one shining on you guys in America and Australia right now)
Wide open iris, shutter at 1/6, still not good enough.
But it was worth a try.

Our daylight saving ended last weekend.

Right now it's hardly any clouds, and lots of stars out there. Optimistic as I was, I went out with my camera wanting to capture the sky.
I learned one thing, the stars do not produce enough light for my camera.
(except for the big yellow one shining on you guys in America and Australia right now)
Wide open iris, shutter at 1/6, still not good enough.
But it was worth a try.

Try again with different zoom settings. I've got some stars last month with XL2 and 20x lens. I'll try to dig out the setting for you.

Grant, I was zoomed as wide as I could. Aperture 1.6, shutter at 1/6.
(I'm using the Canon XM2)

Maybe it was because I am in the outskirts of a city now? The stars are much more bright when I'm up in the mountains.

Well at the moment I'm struggling with ideas to say the least....this certainly is a challenge. I think it might be time for some lateral thinking!

Knew we shouldn't have got the pest controllers in to get rid of those possums!

Could have just popped the camera up through the access hatch in the ceiling and captured some Australian animals, in what is becoming their natural environment.

Plan B is developing but I need to work out how to optimise my camera for low light. Maybe someone in the Challenge with some experience in this area could enlighten us with their knowledge of filming at night, ie some hints and tips?

Trond!

What is not going exactly as planned is the theme!

Yikes!

Cat

What is not going exactly as planned is the theme!

I agree. Or it is a timing problem: last week there was a beautiful big moon and clear sky. Now it is clouds, dark dark night and rain, oh and wind blowiiing.

Just have to pop in with my hair (whats left of it) filled with greasy salmon moister, haha. I look like a fish and smell like a fish.

Catherine; I think this theme is great. I love Meryem for giving us a real challenge this time. I'm sure you people will come up with some dark and nasty stories to tell, eh?

My idea's allready start growing to something I'm not sure I'll manage within the limit. But sure I will try and I WILL deliver a short just to get my hands on one of those T-shirts Meryem promissed us (greedy norwegian) :)
My only concern is what people might think when they see/hear a mysterious guy lurking around in the bushes at night time.
This is gonna be fun.

Geir Inge

i can't tell you how happy it makes me to hear about you all learning your cameras in ways that you haven't had to push them before...even at the most basic level, like pushing the shutter to places it has never gone before. that's what this theme is all about, playing with ways of getting light in there and seeing what your camera can and cannot do...you're right geir, it brings a smile...

this is the first "Tales of Wonder and Woe" thread that has launched by discussing technical issues--cool!

Just a quick hello,
I'm in Sweden right now at a photo exhibition. Still thinking about the theme... ...hmmm, maybe I can pick up some ideas here, most of the best wildlife still-photographer from the nordic countries is present here!

To all: I think you will need some lightsource to get any decent footage. Still photos presenting beautiful nightlandscape in ambient light is shoot with shutter open for several minutes, which is impossible to archieve with a camcorder!
On the other hand, I remember Chris (Hurd) presenting some pictures taken with the XLH1 of some planets in space (can't find the link right now), so there are some possibilities.

This gonna be both fun and challenging!

Good luck to everyone!

I sounds that I’m the lucky one this round. Night dives are a pretty common thing for me. I already got the story, so now I just need to fine some interesting creatures from the deep blue. This is going to be fun!

But I would say that Aurora sound nice… I just to live up north in Sweden and we hade is every winter... but here, down south in Sweden, nobody knows what that is… only from TV.

For you other ones, tweak the camera and go out hunting… it is always something lurking in the shadows…

Markus Nord

But I would say that Aurora sound nice…but here, down south in Sweden, nobody knows what that is… only from TV.
Markus, I lived in Malmø 1998-1999, (a city in the very south end of Sweden), and during that time I saw the Aurora once in the winter.
And very rarely it has reportedly been seen as far south as Northern California.
(Learned this while watching some program on National Geographic a few years ago)


What is not going exactly as planned is the theme!

You're right. Meryem really caught us by surprise this time. I think it is a very interesting theme. But it will far from the easiest one.

Markus, I lived in Malmø 1998-1999, (a city in the very south end of Sweden), and during that time I saw the Aurora once in the winter.
And very rarely it has reportedly been seen as far south as Northern California.
(Learned this while watching some program on National Geographic a few years ago)

OH!... thats cool.. didn't know that before... that you lived in Malmö :)

noooo... just kidding, Aurora in California, cool (maybe that was a bar or a girl in a bar with the name Aurora).

OH!... thats cool.. didn't know that before... that you lived in Malmö :)

Yep, had my education there and in Stockholm. And then I moved back to Norway.

To all: I think you will need some lightsource to get any decent footage.

per, you nailed it! ding ding ding

before you even consider your subject matter, you will need to consider a light source, either natural or man-made.

perhaps taking a moment to help each other out, brainstorming light options would help those of you who are struggling. i tried to throw out a few hints with "campfires, flashlights, candles, matches" etc.

this is also a great opportunity for focus on audio!!

and i'm struggling right along side you--i eat my own cooking, as they say. i have an idea that i'll be executing once i get my next work project out the door, so i'll be $%^&*%&*%$ with you all in a very short time.

bodies of water are good natural reflectors
car headlights

what else?

Hello All:

In one of the other thread there was some discussion on the Northern Lights but I thought maybe this was better here in this thread.

I make no joke when I say that the lights are so common here that we don't even bother to look up anymore. When I first came to the north I would sit out on my deck freezing my butt for hours just watching them dance across the sky. They appear to be so bright however I have tried everything I can think of to capture them on the XL2 and have never had any luck. Any and all ideas on settings would be greatly appriciated....I can't promise to bring any video of them to this challenge even with settings that would work but I could post it later. Right now it just isn't cold enough to create that super clear sky that makes them so wonderful. That's not to suggest it's warm, right now it's -8 C with blowing snow wind chill -17 C.

Any ideas???

Brian

Ideas? Sure!

I saw them in Alaska at the height of the 11 year cycle a few years back. My wife cried when she saw a shooting star go through them. She really loved that trip.

Use a still camera and leave the shutter open for something under 15 seconds. Any longer and you start to get the effects of the earth's rotation. Then just time lapse it into something for the challenge. I saw lots of people doing that. Me? I just left my stuff at home. It was -30F out there at night.

There is no way to do it with a video camera.

Try again with different zoom settings. I've got some stars last month with XL2 and 20x lens. I'll try to dig out the setting for you.

Well I tried my best to capture the stars with 20x lens. And I tried really hard. I climbed up a local volcano (erciyes) above 3000 meters (9000 feet I guess) on a clear night. You could see the milky way and the myriads of stars. the view was wonderful actually but all the shutter settings gain and even post effects did not produce something useful. No way the camera gets enough light from the stars to produce a decent image. Then I did some research on the internet and found that any exposure less than a few seconds are unlikely to do so even with SLR cameras..Sorry for bad news. I am curious with what you did though!

In reply to Trond and Burak:

I've posted a test video in the UWOL forum:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=107110

The main point seems to be that (for some reason) zoom works better than wide.

Grant

Hello Steven:

Yes I've tried that and indeed it does work, however it takes away from the sharpness of the edges of the lights. My feeling is that while the shutter is open the lights move thereby creating a look of a video out of focus. If you remember back to your experience ib Alaska the edges of what I call the curtains of light are crisp and sharp.

Not for this challenge for sure but I do appriciate the input.

Thanks Brian

My son had the local atronomers club round at the school a few months ago and I was fascinated to learn about the planets that were visible in the night sky. I went home that night and filmed Jupiter (I think). This planet has 3 moons (or is it 4), which line up in a straight line to the side of Jupiter. What amazed me was the shot I got of Jupiter PLUS the three moons, which were not visible to the eye, yet they appeared as clear as day on the TV screen.
I think I still have the footage, and will post an image in the next day or so.
I was using a Canon XL H1 and I think I used the standard 20x lens. If not, I may have had the Canon 100 - 400mm on the end?
Apologies for being a bit vague on a few of these issues however, my main point is that filming stars comes up quiet nice on the TV Screen - without having to go to too much trouble.

In reply to Trond and Burak:

I've posted a test video in the UWOL forum:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=107110

The main point seems to be that (for some reason) zoom works better than wide.

Grant
Thanks Grant.
That's indeed very similar to what I had in the end. I was very disappointed with that. May be I was expecting too much. out of focus and zooming helps bu then you get very little number of stars compared to the naked eye view. Next time I will try Using an SLR still shoot posed for 30 seconds or so and edit it with video if I can. The thing is it's windy and rainy out here in Turkey. So no sky at all. Conditions couldn't be worse. (NO, no I take it back... we have a saying here: "There is always worse than worse :)

It would be nice to see the the constellations moving across the sky, but you've got to be happy with what you can achieve. These cameras are designed for normal light conditions. If you want your naked eye view of the milky way then you need another camer system. You'd probably need an SLR lens and a webcam adaptor.

... This planet has 3 moons (or is it 4), which line up in a straight line to the side of Jupiter.

Hi David.
Great to hear about your sons work at school. My father's hobby is to look at the night time skyline and he also have a lot of books about astrology.
Jupiter do have 63 moons, 4 big ones and many small even with no names yet. It's only the Sun, the Moon and Venus thats lightning up more/brighter than Jupiter.
I think Io, Europa, Ganymedes and Callisto are the big ones. 3 first ones are locked in the same route (line you are mentioning) and in a couple of 100years Callista will be locked together in the same route/straight line. ("route" is not a propper name, but it was the only english word I could think of in this matter).

About filming stars it's not easy. rules are; no wind, stady tripod, a bright and clear sky and not least find a place where it's totaly dark - no street lights etc. As for now we dont have a clear sky at our place, just plenty of rain. I think it's something fishy about uwol. The last challenge, also spoiled by rain. As I'm working night time I will carry my camera with me in the car, just in case something will pop up along the road. Almost every night I see deer running cross the road, so maybe my car lights will be useful?

Geir Inge

Hi Geir,
Thanks for the insight into Jupiter & it's moons - it really is a fascinating subject the whole astronomy thing.

Sounds like your time management skills are going to get a work out over the next few weeks - with your long work hours with the new job, and also UWOL.

I hope the deer give you some opportunities as you commute, as it certainly would come up nice on the screen, if you can capture such a moment (it will be extremely tough though).

I have no concrete ideas about what I'm going to do. I am really struggling with a light source that I can combine with something that I would love to film - but I guess that's the challenge.

Good luck to you Geir, and also to the rest of us night stalkers...

Thank you David.
hehe, I wrote astrology. I guess my father is more into astronomy :)
I'm not sure if I can catch the deer, they are fast runners.
Still I've got an idea of what I want to film, but if I'll manage to full fill - thats the question.

All the best to you too.
Geir Inge

Found this in our local newspaper.
Link(norwegian): http://www.smp.no/default.asp?page=1003,1095&item=1375419,1&lang=1
Last Tuesday this meteor was seen on the sky a bit south of where I live.
What a scoop it would have been for uwol#6.
sigh....

Geir Inge

I suddenly thought - full moon! that should give enough light for something

full moon in Nov=26th
contest ends.... 19th


bugger

When I've tried shooting stars (mind the pun) in the past it's never worked properly. Where as generating a star field using something like 3dS max is soooo much easier. Very simple to do, and also if you know a bit about particle generation you can do what I did for my college course work which was to show a huge star field and then zoom in on one star so you could see the reaction occuring on it's surface.

Massive render time but definitely worth it. I'll try and dig out the final clip.

I'd be very interested in that and anything to help shoot in the dark.

I think creating it in max is missing the point a bit Dave. But I'd be interested in having a look at the work!

For those that have never seen the Northern Lights. The pic was taken right after the sun had set you can still see some of the orange glow on the horizon. If you look at the stars in the background you can see that the shutter had to be open for a number of seconds to capture the image.....I only wish it was video.

Brian

mmmm.....nice image!

This is a shot of the Northern Lights off my deck in Iowa.
They were bright enough to be seen by the naked eye but this exposure was like 20 seconds at a high ISO to capture them on my Nikon D70.

To actually see them in person though is truly a spiritual experience!

Hi Brian & Kevin,

These are beautiful images!

Yes Brian, it would be absolutely wonderful to watch such a sight on video - if someone knew how to do it?

I still have no idea what to film. Hope things are going better for you both.

Hey Kevin....waaay cool. I'm very jealous and I'm going to look at a map as to where Iowa is....! Wasn't aware you'd be far enough north for that funny business.

I think Meryem only got it half right when she said we would need to push our gear to the limit for this one. I've been wondering around the Aussie bush these last 2 nights in the dark, & my ears are getting tired! They must be compensating for what i can't see!! :)

Bryce

I realized that fireworks would probably be too common. How would you like to see dancing Christmas Lights instead?

There are about 10 million lights at Disney MGM Studios starting on the 12th. Yes, I think you might like seeing that instead of fireworks.

What do you think?

In the meantime I am going to see Chubby Checker tonight, so I will try to get some interesting night time shots. There is a spot at Epcot where there are lights in the cement pathway from fiber optic cable. The kids love it, as do many adults. If I can capture someone having fun with the lights, that could end up being my clip for this one.

Yes, night time is easy in my neighborhood. Disney lights up the buildings, the sky, and everything around.

I have been casually surfing for general information on the contest and I just can't find any. I've viewed a number of old entries, though, so I have some idea.

But what are the rules, really?

People talk of "stories", but is that required? Is that the focus?

It's clearly, basically, wannabe-discovery-channel with a focus on animal planet (to toss out a few trademarks), but I'm thinking a bit outside the box on this.

Must there be animals? Can it be people instead?

I assume, obviously, narrative filmmaking and traditional character driven documentaries are out, but would the "view" of civilization work? Should it just be natural things? From the above post this sounds ok.

Etc.

I also have a tendency to get into some complex editing/FX, but I'll try to stay away from that here. If it simply enhances a shot, would that be ok? Or is this all in camera?
I also have a few post-FX in mind to pick up footage at night, so I'll assume that's allowed as long as it's in the spirit of capturing reality.

Seems like a fun challenge and I'm interested in getting involved.

Thanks.

If there's a link you can point me to, that's just fine, but I have yet to find any general explanation in a link.

But what are the rules, really?

Here are the rules:
http://www.uwolchallenge.com/contestrules.htm

Thanks for the link, Trond.

Any more specific info on the "story", required focus, etc.? Or is this just something that has developed as a result of patterns in the entires?

Hey Daniel,

There need not be a story if you choose not to have one. Heck, look at most of my stuff. :)

In the last challenge, I remember one shot in particular. A red deer breathing in the early morning light with his breath coming out in clouds of steam.

The rest of the film could have been about pickles after that. :)

You're free to make whatever you feel like making for your interpretation of the theme.

Take Ruth H. for example. For the theme "Recreation" She interpreted it as " Wreak Creation" and her film was about destroying the environment.

I think the most important thing most people will tell you is to get out there and film something. Your feedback thread will give you an idea if you're on the mark or not.

Daniel, firstly this is the challenge definition.

"The "Under Water, Over Land" (UWOL) Challenge provides a unique opportunity for documentarians, planet Earth-lovers, tree-huggers,extreme sports enthusiasts, bird-watchers, sea-dwellers, and all aspiring outdoor film makers to join a community of like minded people, swap stories, learn skills, win prizes and maybe get an exclusive place in the winners circle. "

You talk of story. Any film worth its viewing time will carry you on a journey, whether its an animal planet documentary or films like Microcosmos which although they don't have a narrative take you on a visual journey. This interpretation is entirely up to you. Take a look at the difference in the range of entries in previous challenges and you will see just this.

That said this isn't DVC and we are not about to start making pure narrative stories with actors and sets and such but it is open to quite a wide interpretation and although for me its about shooting wildlife and the beauty of the natural world one of nice things with uwol is peoples varying interpretations.


*Edit......Damn you Kevin....you did it again ;-) ! *Goes off to improve his typing speed!

Thanks, guys. Sounds good. Pretty much what I expected, but I was feeling a bit out of the loop.

Hi Daniel: Just to add what the boys already said.

You pretty much nailed the spirit of the thing--UWOL started out as a discovery-animal planet wannabe type of contest, and our original mission statement, quoted by Mat, still reflects that. But the Challenge has evolved in a few different directions since then, to support a broader range of interpretations of what "Under Water, Over Land" can be, and we welcome that....

Maybe it helps to think of it this way: the planet is our muse, and that means a lot of different things to people all over the world.

I think a re-enactment of the quest for fire would be a hoot, if that's what you're alluding to.... Round up the cave-folk and shoot it! Better than zombies....

Haha. That would be lots of fun. I was thinking a bit more modern (though I'll refrain from giving too much more away).

i think we need to chip in and buy bryce a flashlight. something with some wattage!

push that gain, open that iris. learn that camera! if you can do this one, bryce, the rest will seem sooo easy.

i'm going to start mine tomorrow night. i can't wait! i have so many ideas, that my plan is going to be to try them all and see what sticks....which is sort of my way of saying, i don't have a plan! just a bunch of interesting camera experiments!

well i'm fresh off the first night of shooting. I can't say it was overly successful -a very drunk band of, literally a band, of people would not stop playing and singing the same sad song (very badly i might add). It was so dark I couldn't see them, but they had to be like 200m down the mountainside. I tried to stay as long as I could, wanting a good time lapse, but gee whiz! So i spent most of the time driving around or hiking looking for something lol