If somebody really needs 4:2:2 low compression quality a $5,000.00 device sure beats having to go out and buy a $35,000.00 camera.

I love these small companies like Convergent Design, Red and Letus because they really shake up the industry and bring people's idea for great products into reality.

Exactly! That's the big innovation. It's one of the first products to realize that you don't have to bundle, sensor, recording mechanism, and various codecs into the camera. Like I said before, with this device you're not tied to a specific camera or codec.. You can use a Red on the high end, a JVC HD 250 on the medium, or an HV20 on the low end. And you can record to the data rate of your choice. That's almost like having the option to shoot the film stock of your choice. Excellent.

I second Thomas, don't beat up the innovators and risk-takers too much.
Besides, you can vote (for or against) with your purchase decision when the product comes out. I don't think it is our role to keep pressure on companies. Hopefully, our role here is to produce videos. And use the tools of choice to the best of our ability and problem solve issues along the way.

Mike, Keep swinging for the fences. True innovation is rare in this risk-adverse society. Thanks for listening to feedback. I can't wait to purchase your product.

Cheers.

That is what is so tough about being an Indie. We all want to have the highest level of quality for the lowest cost. That is why we are in such a odd and tough situation.

Nobody said being an Indie was supposed to be easy. In fact usually it is very hard because we have to try to do things on a budget. This can be very hard when it comes to high quality. All we can do is to try to do the best we can for what we have to work with.

To some Indies this device will be worth the money to some they will not be able to justify the cost. That is the case with any equipment we use. Some Indies can afford a Canon H1 with SDI while others are lucky to afford a HV20. It's not that it is unfair to the person who can only afford a HV20. That is just the way it is. Quality costs money and it is something we all have to move into when we can afford it. I feel your pain but really nobody is obligated to give us the quality we all want just because as an Indie we may need it. I would love to have a SONY F950 but I do not get mad at SONY because it costs $100,000.00. I realize as an indie that it is out of my reach right now unless I rent it for a project. Maybe that is one area where the XDR can really help out indie's. Rental. I remember a time when a lot of indies didn't own their own film cameras. To me it would make perfect sense to shoot HDV as you experiment and then when you are ready to shoot your project rent a XDR. After the shoot you will have CF cards that can play without the XDR device so it isn't like a HDCAM deck you have to have around when you are ready to ingest.

Like I said before there are a lot of factors that go into the cost of this device. A firestore is pretty much just a hard drive that runs off batteries with special OS software to write files to the disk and look how much it costs. Here we have all the SDI ports, video processing, high quality encoder and MXF format support in one simple to use device. That stuff is not cheap. While it would be nice to see a cheaper scaled down version at some later point there are a lot of pros who do want the product as is right now and they are ready to buy it.

...it would seem to me (and what do I know) that a company is in business to make money. If more money can be made with the same, or less, investment dollars, wouldn't it be prudent to go for it? I guess, I don't understand C-D's marketing strategy by going for a very high dollar, specialized niche market, when a very similar (and cheaper) product could bring much more return on their development investment dollar. Thomas Smet above has already mentioned an excellent example of a successful high-dollar specialized niche market by citing RED (a project helmed by a self-made billionaire, so I think it's safe to assume he knows something about running a successful business). But there are a wide variety of other such specialized niche market products in this business... in fact, the pro video realm is full of them. Just check out the pricing on a Leader wave form monitor, or a Codex digital recording system. Point being, it doesn't have to be "cheap" to be successful; a company can make a thriving business with an expensive, high-end product. Restaurants are a perfect example: why should Morton's Steakhouse serve $50 plates in a nice dining room when they could just as easily sell $5 hamburgers at a drive-up window? The obvious answer is because that's the business they choose to be in. I think we should let Mike Schell determine what business he wants Convergent to be in, and let him choose his own path. There's nothing wrong with catering to the higher end of the specialized niche markets.

What kind of company is that? Certainly not one I would want to buy stock in. Not to worry; I don't think Convergent Design is a publicly traded company!

It would appear C-D's agenda is not one many of us can understand.From the top of their home page (http://www.convergent-design.com/): "HDV, AVCHD, and DV Converters for Broadcast, Studio, and Independent Videographers." It should be clear that broadcast and studio applications are not low-dollar areas. And just because they're not "cheap" doesn't mean they're out of reach for successful independent videographers.

Unfortunately, their pricing philosophy is out of line with the majority of the market. Considering the potential for an affordable solid state, direct to edit device, C-D doesn't seem, to me anyway, be doing much for most small videographers. First, there's nothing wrong with their price. Remember, this is an SDI recorder. SDI itself carries a premium of several thousand dollars. In fact, the XDR represents perhaps the single least expensive way to record HD video from an SDI output. Consider that a High Definition VTR with SDI input will set you back about $20K. So no, there's nothing wrong with Convergent's pricing of the XDR. Show me a less expensive SDI recorder for HD video than that.

Second, small videographers are already pretty well served in the DTE market: while the FireStore is not solid state, it is an affordable FireWire recorder and there's a model for every major format variation. And we're starting to see camcorders with solid-state recording at the affordable low-end scale such as Panasonic's recently announced AG-HMC70, which records AVCHD video to an SD card.

How many businesses can afford $5K outlays that have a halflife of 6 months?I'm not sure where you're getting six months from, but no matter; a $5K outlay should easily pay for itself at least one time over within that time frame.

"....don't beat up the innovators and risk-takers too much."

agreed!

Just a note of thanx to Chris, Thomas and Mike for your willingness to discuss this topic. Chris, thanx for not booting me or telling me to keep my mouth shut. I apologize if this discussion has offended anyone, I sincerely hope I haven't. You all make very good points.

Thanx, again.

Indeed, but time scales are notoriously difficult to predict, and I do feel the whole impetus of solid state is starting to gather momentum now SxS has joined P2. Yes, the demand may still be a way off, but it takes time to bring product to market, so is it not therefore sensible to be making these suggestions NOW?

In answer to my points about SxS when first raised, Mike's reply was :


It makes perfect sense, and I agree that CF is probably currently a better choice than SxS (or P2, for that matter) for all but the top end cameras - I actually wish Sony had used them for the EX.

But having SxS capability *in addition* to CF far from precludes CF use, and whatever you and I may agree upon about CF, if a near future client demands SxS, our views become irrelevant. A hybrid XDR would satisfy that demand, without taking anything away from the product as it stands.

I am most certainly NOT arguing for SxS INSTEAD of CF, but rather as well as.

Hi David-
We would dearly like to include both SxS and Compact Flash support, but SxS requires a PCIe interface which would greatly increase our development time and add some additional manufacturing costs. We'll consider SxS support for a future version of the box.

Mike Schell

"....don't beat up the innovators and risk-takers too much."

agreed!

Just a note of thanx to Chris, Thomas and Mike for your willingness to discuss this topic. Chris, thanx for not booting me or telling me to keep my mouth shut. I apologize if this discussion has offended anyone, I sincerely hope I haven't. You all make very good points.

Thanx, again.

Hi Bill-
Thanks for the feedback and recommendations! We're not offended. We're very excited about the Flash XDR and appreciate everyone's comments and thoughts. Naturally, we can't accomadate everyone's wishes with regard to features and product price. The old adage, "Good Engineering is knowing what to leave out" definitely applies. Feature creep is always a concern, but at the same time to want to build a product that accomadates a wide range of users. Most importantly, we want the product to be both reliable and easy to use.

So we're listening (and reading) all the comments and recommendations. Just know that we have to make compromises in order to get the design finished in a reasonable timeframe and to hit our manufacturing costs targets.

Mike

PS We do have a couple of very cool new features in the works, but we'll keep you guessing for a while longer.

Hi David-
We would dearly like to include both SxS and Compact Flash support, but SxS requires a PCIe interface which would greatly increase our development time and add some additional manufacturing costs. We'll consider SxS support for a future version of the box.
Thanks Mike! Understood.

Before the start of the SxS/CF debate I did ask about Firewire i/p (post 40) -"Having a new look at the XDR spec sheet, I notice that whilst it talks of a Firewire OUTPUT, there's no mention of an INPUT.............

...........Hence, my question would be whether it would accept an input via Firewire? It would also be useful if it then also gave SDI out, so doubling as a Firewire to SDI convertor."

The XDR is what it is, but it does seem that a simple Firestore type device based on CF is something the market is crying out for, whoever was to make it. Lower power consumption, fast boot up time, silent operation, removable media - bring out such a product, and I can see Firestore sales plummeting overnight. Although the XDR is more expensive than a Firestore, if it roles Firewire/SDI conversion functionality into the same box..........? And this is extra to the features which are causing the most interest on these boards!

As an aside, if anybody doubts the credentials of Compact Flash for professional use, then I've just heard that the Grass Valley Infinity camera seems to have finally started shipping. The use of JPEG2000 means that better than HDCAM recording quality seems to be achievable at sub-100Mbs data rates, so it can also make use of standard grade (cheap) Extreme III memory.

The old adage, "Good Engineering is knowing what to leave out" definitely applies. Feature creep is always a concern, but at the same time to want to build a product that accomadates a wide range of users.

Man do I wish I could stop doing that to myself. I have this huge problem of never being satisfied with the tools I make which is why they never get finished. I make a rough alpha version use it on a project and then start it all over again. I give you credit for being able to say enough is enough and just get it done. For me that is the hardest part of making my own stuff like this.

Just been reading this thread and have to dash out but the three main headline points or questions for me are....

The Flash XDR will work with the new Holy Grail EX1 ?
It will be available in Q1 2008 for $5k ?
It will be available in Europe ?

Sure, the XDR will be compatible with the Sony PMW-EX1. The EX1 has an SDI output and the XDR is an SDI recorder, so no problem. However, and this is nothing against what Convergent is doing, but I'm pretty sure that most folks who buy the EX1 will find its onboard SxS flash memory XDCAM HD recording system to be perfectly adequate for their needs, making the XDR redundant unless you want it there for dual media recording / instant backup duties.

Sure, the XDR will be compatible with the Sony PMW-EX1. The EX1 has an SDI output and the XDR is an SDI recorder, so no problem. However, and this is nothing against what Convergent is doing, but I'm pretty sure that most folks who buy the EX1 will find its onboard SxS flash memory XDCAM HD recording system to be perfectly adequate for their needs, making the XDR redundant unless you want it there for dual media recording / instant backup duties.

Hi Chris-
I would agree that most users will find the quality of the EX1 acceptable, but I think they will consider the Flash XDR for it's improved video quality. Both products record MPEG2 to Flash memory, but the EX1 is limited to 35 Mbps Long-GOP 4:2:0, while Flash XDR will go up to 100 Mbps 4:2:2 Long-GOP or 160 Mbps I-Frame Only. In this application, the SxS would be used as the backup memory.

Mike Schell

Mike,

I'm wondering how the FAT32 4GIG limitation will affect my work flow.

If I have a clip that's going to be over 4GIG, once I get it onto my computer, is there any way to combine the clips together?

I guess I could put them in one sequence and the edit the sequence as a clip, but Premiere Pro really slows down when you do that.

How does one handle this in the editing software like Premiere Pro?

Also, I'm a little rusty on my computer math. At 160Mbps, how long is a 4GIG clip? What about 100Mbps?

I'm pretty excited about this device. I have an EX1 coming and can't wait to put my order in for the Flash XDR!

Also, am I going to need to use 'pro' quality batteries or will my old Sony batteries that power my Z1U work?

so how long can you record for with 100mbps?

Mike,

I'm wondering how the FAT32 4GIG limitation will affect my work flow.

If I have a clip that's going to be over 4GIG, once I get it onto my computer, is there any way to combine the clips together?

I guess I could put them in one sequence and the edit the sequence as a clip, but Premiere Pro really slows down when you do that.

How does one handle this in the editing software like Premiere Pro?

Also, I'm a little rusty on my computer math. At 160Mbps, how long is a 4GIG clip? What about 100Mbps?

I'm pretty excited about this device. I have an EX1 coming and can't wait to put my order in for the Flash XDR!

Also, am I going to need to use 'pro' quality batteries or will my old Sony batteries that power my Z1U work?

Hi James-
Very good questions. Your understanding regarding the 4G file limit is correct, you will need to place the files in the same sequence. The individual files could be combined together, but this would require a special utility on the PC/MAC.

At 100 Mbps you have 320 seconds of footage in a 4GB file, at 160Mbps you get 200 seconds.

We're still working on the battery options, so I need to defer this last question until we have the various options finalized. Currently, Flash XDR has a 4-pin XLR connector for power, but we are studying various other mounting options.

Mike Schell

Hopefully you will look at the upcoming SATA II compatible SSHDs. You could make a small removable Raid 0 cartridge for the XDR recorder, then a simple read only device with interfaces for PciE, eSata, Firewire.

Seagate is planning on 120gig SSHDs in 2008. Write speeds on current Raid 0 configurations are 45MB ps and getting faster each generation. Samsung's upcoming 64GB is supposed to be 100MB write.

Just my .02

Hopefully you will look at the upcoming SATA II compatible SSHDs. You could make a small removable Raid 0 cartridge for the XDR recorder, then a simple read only device with interfaces for PciE, eSata, Firewire.

Seagate is planning on 120gig SSHDs in 2008. Write speeds on current Raid 0 configurations are 45MB ps and getting faster each generation. Samsung's upcoming 64GB is supposed to be 100MB write.

Just my .02

Hi Joe-
We are watching this technology like a hawk and already have NDAs with some of the leading manufacturers of SSD. So, I can't say much, but you're on the right track.

Mike Schell

Mike is there any reason why the FlashXDR has to use FAT32? I know it is for cross platform compatibility, but could it not be designed to use both FAT32 and NTFS.

FAT32 is not very robust and the 2 gig files do present problems in NLE workflows. For example on multicam shoots when it comes to grouping clips, having a bunch of different clips that stop and start at different times creates brain teasing problems if you don't have matching timecode.

Hi Chris-
I would agree that most users will find the quality of the EX1 acceptable, but I think they will consider the Flash XDR for it's improved video quality. Both products record MPEG2 to Flash memory, but the EX1 is limited to 35 Mbps Long-GOP 4:2:0, while Flash XDR will go up to 100 Mbps 4:2:2 Long-GOP or 160 Mbps I-Frame Only. In this application, the SxS would be used as the backup memory.

Mike Schell

That and the extra ease of editing and outputting I frame - I concur.

What edit systems that can work with HD at decent rates still use Fat32? Didn't that die off with Windows 98? Sorry I have been using NTFS for as long as I can remember and I cannot remember what still uses Fat32.

What edit systems that can work with HD at decent rates still use Fat32? Didn't that die off with Windows 98? Sorry I have been using NTFS for as long as I can remember and I cannot remember what still uses Fat32.

None as far as I know Thomas. I was referring to the fact that you can mount FAT32 on a Mac or a PC, not its edit capability. I was asking for NTFS because I feel it is more stable and there is no need to concatenate files.

Mike is there any reason why the FlashXDR has to use FAT32? I know it is for cross platform compatibility, but could it not be designed to use both FAT32 and NTFS.

FAT32 is not very robust and the 2 gig files do present problems in NLE workflows. For example on multicam shoots when it comes to grouping clips, having a bunch of different clips that stop and start at different times creates brain teasing problems if you don't have matching timecode.

Hi John-
We choose FAT32 simply for time to market reasons. We concur that NTFS is a better overall choice. I'll add this to our engineering discussion tomorrow and ask if we can add this to the roadmap for a future software upgrade. I can't make any promises yet, but we will investigate further.

Mike Schell

Hi John-
We choose FAT32 simply for time to market reasons. We concur that NTFS is a better overall choice. I'll add this to our engineering discussion tomorrow and ask if we can add this to the roadmap for a future software upgrade. I can't make any promises yet, but we will investigate further.

Mike Schell

Can't ask for any more than that!

I guess it does become difficult for you guys to support multiple filesystems (I guess the Mac guys would like their's as well) but if it is on a wishlist that's more of a hearing than you'd get from many.

I have been looking for info on wether Convergent Designs upcoming FLASH XDR records in 10 bit 4:2:2 100 mbps I-frame or only in 8 bit.
Does anybody know?

Thanks,

Calle

I have been looking for info on wether Convergent Designs upcoming FLASH XDR records in 10 bit 4:2:2 100 mbps I-frame or only in 8 bit.
Does anybody know?

Thanks,

Calle

Since the Flash XDR uses an MPEG2 CODEC, it's 8-bits 4:2:2. All MPEG2 based products, such as the Sony XDCAM HD and EX family as well as HDCAM are all 8-bit CODEC, as well as the Panasonic DVCProHD CODEC.

Mike Schell
Convergent Design

Could you choose any format to record onto the flash cards? For instance, if you were to use the HD SDI from the Sony EX1, could you record DVCPRO HD on the XDR? Or does it have to be XDCAM HD?

I would be interested in the full 1080P 4:2:2 160 Mbps I frame compression for compositing and editing issues as most people here probably are too. But does FCP 6 support this? I see XDCAM HD 35 Mbps options under the codecs. Does it limit it to 35 Mbps? Would you have to use something like the Apple ProRes codec, cause it's 4:2:2 too.

... if you were to use the HD SDI from the Sony EX1, could you record DVCPRO HD on the XDR?For the Flash XDR to transcode the EX1's output into DVCPRO HD, it would require a license from Panasonic... which isn't likely to happen.

OK. So then can FCP 6 work with the 160 Mbps I Frame files that the XDR records? In any way?

Using ProRes 422 HQ is probably your best bet in maintaining the quality of your footage, sans using Uncompressed.

Whlist the XDR looks like a fantastic idea i do have to say that 8 bit is no where near as attractive as 10 bit and whilst i understand that this is a factor of the MPEG2, i have to ask whether there's an alternative compressor that would be better (working with cineform for example)

The reason i say this is i feel that colour depth is more important than colour resolution for most people (whether they know it or not!). I like the EX for example and it might well be outputting 10bit on the HD-SDI (i don't think anyone knows for sure), but to get 4:2:2 10bit out of that camera would make the XDR very attractive (to me anyway).

It could be that by finding a way to include 10bit you lengthen the lifespan of the box and, indirectly, peoples cameras because surely 10bit+ will be the next important evolution for these levels of cameras.

just some musing...

cheers
paul

In the For What It's Worth category:
I just assembled a Compact Flash reader that interfaces thru SATA II. It's possible to reformat the CF card as NTSF with this system. There's a number of other advantages to using SATA II, including, RAID configurations, high transfer rates and hot swapping.

OK. So then can FCP 6 work with the 160 Mbps I Frame files that the XDR records? In any way?

Hi Brian-
We are working with all the NLEs for this support. Since Sony is introducing a 4:2:2 camera (early next year) which is based on the Long-GOP of this same CODEC, we expect I-Frame only support to come very quickly. I-Frame only is really just a subset of Long-GOP (without the B and P frames).

Mike Schell

Hi Paul-

We agree. Of course the camera must support 10-bit (effective) HD-SDI output, which is reportedly the case for the EX but not so for all cameras.

Stay tuned for more announcements on Flash XDR...

Best-
Mike Schell

http://www.ikegami.com/IKEGAMI_GV_EXPO_2007_FINAL.html
Quote from Ikegami::
"HDN-X10 EditcamHD tapeless camcorder is the first to use Avid's high quality DNxHD high-quality mastering codec to deliver HD resolution, full-raster (1920 by 1080) images that can be edited on laptop and desktop systems in real time. The DNxHD codec is an open system that can be licensed for free, ensuring viability far into the future. "

The HDN-X10 EditcamHD currently employs a data rate of 145 Mbps (Megabits per second) to provide 1080/60i, 1080/24p, and 720/60p recording and playback...

Mike,

Here you go. Avid DNxHD. It's FREE and could work at 10bit at 145Mbits/sec.

Even though Avid is going through a slight downturn, there are still a lot of Avids around. Maybe you could add DNxHD 145 to the codecs from Sony.

You should give them a call.

Cheers.

Hi David-

Good info, I'll give them a call and study it some more. It all depends on how difficult it is to implement the CODEC into our hardware (FPGA).

Thanks-
Mike

Avid DNxHD. It's FREE and could work at 10bit at 145Mbits/sec.

Maybe you could add DNxHD 145 to the codecs from Sony.
In which case, what would be the situation with ProRes 422, for FCP users?

of course after posting the bit about cineform i stumble across this

http://www.cineform.com/products/CineFormRecorder.htm

whilst that's HDMI perhaps there's a good partnership there somewhere?

cheers
paul

Cineform... perhaps there's a good partnership there somewhere?There's good competition there somewhere.

In which case, what would be the situation with ProRes 422, for FCP users?
Wow. That would be amazing.

This brings up a point. It would seem to me that the struggle between what is an aquisition format and a post format might get solved with a device like Mike's. Think about this. We've always had to make sure our edit systems conform with our camera selections. And it at times it has been a real pain.

For years the NLE makers have had the very difficult task of taking a codec specification, HDCAM, DVCPro HD, HDV, ADVCHD( and the many more iterations of frame rates, designed to encode and transport to a recording device, and make it editable. If you think about, those are two completely different processes. And we wait 6 months, to a year, to never, for our NLE of choice to be compatible with our cameras. This could change all that.

Mike, if your device happens to take Avid DNxHD, Apple ProRez, Canopus HQ, you could make life incredibly easier. And maybe you don't market the device to include all of them in the same package. You sell the device as an Avid box with only that one codec. Or the ProRez. ...etc.

Then we pick the camera for its shooting capabilities and not the codec that wasn't really designed for editing. You could use anything ranging from a HV20(HDMI to HDSDI converter needed) to a Red straight into a codec that you easily start editing with.

Imagine the possibilities!!!!

To the Convergent Design team: How is the development going? Any update? New codec announcements? Availability?

What about mjpeg? It is for the most part free and works with a lot of NLE's. The problem with Cineform is that the codec mostly lives in the Adobe or Vegas world right now. If you use another NLE you are SOL. Avid DNx is nice but it only works for Avid people so if you don't use that either you are SOL.

A lot of people usually snub mjpeg but what they don't realize is that mjpeg isn't much different then I frame only mpeg2. The same sort of DCT artifacts are there. The only problem is the device would have to be setup to let the user choose to wrap the mjpeg in a quicktime file or a AVI file.

Another area where you guys seem be be forgetting is nice about the XDR isn't just the 160 mbit/s mode but the other lower bitrate modes. IPB 80 to 100 mbit 4:2:2 is virtually perfect and at a much lower datarate then what any of the other codecs could ever dream of doing. Even 50 mbits/s 4:2:2 mpeg2 is pretty darn good and will be good enough just to give people who are fine with XDCAM compression that tiny extra chroma boost they may want. 50 mbits equals a lot of video per card compared to using Cineform, mjpeg or DNx. This means the choice to use mpeg2 gives the user a lot of options as to what quality they want and how much video they can get per card. Sure other codecs are nice but they are usually a one option only type of codec.

This sounds very nice to me.

I just was wondering until which capacity CF-cards are supported. Will future CF-cards of 64, 128 & 256 GB supported too?! I couldn't find anything in the FAQ brochure about this.

If meeting up to technical expectations - I'm very curious about the first production models - the only downside is maybe the pricetag. As already said 5000$ is a quite competitive price, but at 3500-4000$ it would absolutely blow away all the competition and be a no-brainer.

Greatings

Someone mentioned estimated availability of 1Qtr 2008 ...

Any news on a delivery date and a more finalized configuration of this simply AWESOME portable HD-SDI recorder?

We're drooling...

What I hope to do is// buy this device with 4 cheaper cards. sure it will still cost more doing it this way but// in the process I will have much higher quality and hopefully a format that will actually work in my NLE unlike the mp4 wrapper format that needs to be re-wrapped.

Hi Thomas,
I should perhaps have finished reading this thread to find the answer, but I couldn't proceed after reading the above quotation...
I edit on a Mac, using Avid... I plan to get the EX1 but I know Avid is slow to update, and right now, can't import the higher-than-25Mb/s EX1 files; are you implying, in the above quotation, that the format I'd get with this Convergent Design device (can you tell me what format it is, please?) - - might be compatible with Avid Xpress Pro? Next question: is this format (the Converg. Design one) equal to 35Mb/s?
Thanks,
Malcolm

This silence concerns me...Please assure us this is still in development!

This silence concerns me...Please assure us this is still in development!

Hi Sergio-
Not to worry, we are most definitely still in development on Flash XDR, making solid progress. We're in the lab grinding away on the code and the enclosure design, that's why you have not heard much from us recently.

We're still shooting for protos in Q1 and production by NAB. We have plenty of motivation to get Flash XDR finished as fast as possible.

Mike Schell
Convergent Design

Hi Sergio-
Not to worry, we are most definitely still in development on Flash XDR, making solid progress. We're in the lab grinding away on the code and the enclosure design, that's why you have not heard much from us recently.

We're still shooting for protos in Q1 and production by NAB. We have plenty of motivation to get Flash XDR finished as fast as possible.

Mike Schell
Convergent Design

Mike,

Thanks for the quick response. Following some really exciting products I was following being canned (Cineporter and the Hydra, for example), its conforting to see you guys still on track with your revolutionary device. Keep up the good work, and do keep us posted on the process!

Another area where you guys seem be be forgetting is nice about the XDR isn't just the 160 mbit/s mode but the other lower bitrate modes. IPB 80 to 100 mbit 4:2:2 is virtually perfect and at a much lower datarate then what any of the other codecs could ever dream of doing. Even 50 mbits/s 4:2:2 mpeg2 is pretty darn good and will be good enough just to give people who are fine with XDCAM compression that tiny extra chroma boost they may want. 50 mbits equals a lot of video per card compared to using Cineform, mjpeg or DNx. This means the choice to use mpeg2 gives the user a lot of options as to what quality they want and how much video they can get per card. Sure other codecs are nice but they are usually a one option only type of codec.

You are correct that I-Frame MPEG2 is essentially identical to an MJEPG frame, both are based on DCT compression. While it would be nice to support every CODEC under the sun (CineForm, DNxHD, ProRes, MPEG2, etc) in a single product, it would be a technical nightmare in in the case of Flash XDR and would go aganist our basic design concept of portability and low-power. The Sony MPEG2 CODEC, which uses the same chip set as the upcoming Sony 422 camcorder is still an excellent compromise for power, size and video quality.

Overall, I think we will find a diminishing return on bit rate vs overall quality. For example, if the video quality "doubles" going from 25 to 50 Mbps, then it will probably only increase 20% going from 50 to 100 Mbps. We do expect a nice improvement in quality going from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 color space and some improvement going from 1440x1080 to 1920x1080, but I doubt most users will notice a difference going from say 100 to 150 Mbps.

I personally think the "sweet spot" is going to be 50 Mbps 4:2:2 Long-GOP, which is a great compromise of video quality and storage capacity. With that said, 100 Mbps Long-GOP should look awesome for most applications.

Mike Schell
Convergent Design

This sounds very nice to me.

I just was wondering until which capacity CF-cards are supported. Will future CF-cards of 64, 128 & 256 GB supported too?! I couldn't find anything in the FAQ brochure about this.

If meeting up to technical expectations - I'm very curious about the first production models - the only downside is maybe the pricetag. As already said 5000$ is a quite competitive price, but at 3500-4000$ it would absolutely blow away all the competition and be a no-brainer.

Greatings

Hi Pieter-
We are initially planning support for CF cards up to 128 GByte capacity, which is still quite a few more years into the future. 32GB cards are just starting to appear on the market. You can get a 32GB card for under $200. Unfortunately, it's only fast enough for 50 Mbps stream, but this is probably sufficient for most applications.

BTW, four 32GB cards provides for over 5 hours record time at 50 Mbps rate!

We think the price of Flash XDR is very competitive at $4995, especially given the price of HD decks and other HD recording devices.

Mike Schell

Mike,

Thanks for your recent update on the XDR.

I have a general question that I am a little confused about.

Given that the XDR can record in different framerates, is the framerate determined by the camera or the Flash XDR?

I don't know if the SDI feed from a camera is always the full resolution and framerate of a imaging sensor, and the XDR just takes what it needs.

For example, is it possible to get 720p60 out of an XDCAM HD 355?

Since there is a color space increase, one would think there might be a framerate increase.

Thanks

P.S. Are their going to be any video examples showing the benefits of the higher bitrates and color space on your website?

I meant to post this earlier, but Tim is referring to http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=113482