View Full Version : Let's List Our Leopard Experiences...


Kevin Spahr
October 26th, 2007, 05:06 PM
Maybe we can save some headaches, or give courage to others.

I'll start with a headache...

Installed MacOSX 10.5 on my 12" G4 PowerBook, it has Final Cut Express HD 3 on it and FCE will no longer work! Tries to start, look at the pretty beach ball, and then it goes away.

Tried deleting preferences and added plug-ins without success. Maybe FCE3 is just too old?

I'm afraid to try it on my main machine (FCP5 & MacPro) - I have jobs in-progress there.

Some one give me courage...

Boyd Ostroff
October 26th, 2007, 06:11 PM
Heh, you won't get any courage from me! I always wait quite awhile before upgrading to the next version of MacOS X - and more often than not it's when I get it pre-installed on a new machine. But I'm still running 10.3.9 on my G4 powerbook :-)

Robert Lane
October 26th, 2007, 07:13 PM
Kevin,

As mentioned in many threads, it's imperative with 10.5 that you do a clean install, not simply upgrade on top of your existing OS version.

It's also never a good idea to do a major OS upgrade while you have unfinished projects.

Here's what you should do for both Powerbook and MacPro:

- Make an image of your boot drive (you can do this easily by using the MacOS 10.4 install disks and bring up Disk Utility); save this on an external somewhere.
- Do a clean install of Leopard on either machine, grab any applicable OS updates, do a "repair permissions", reboot then try installing FCE.
- Make sure your G4 Powerbook is has a Leopard-compatible CPU - goto this webpage and cross-reference your machine:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/refurblist.html

On your MacPro the alternative for testing 10.5 compatibility would be to install it on a second internal drive, load all your relevant apps and updates and see how things play with each other. If all goes well you could import your projects, continue working them and see if any major problems occur. If they do, you won't have to go through the process of either full re-installation or, re-loading your saved boot image.

- *Finish* your FCE projects *first* before you upgrade either system or, make sure you save a current project copy using Media Manager prior to doing the OS upgrade in case you have to revert back to your 10.4 image.
- Make sure you have the latest version of FCE 3 - which is 3.5.

This should help.

Sheila Ward
October 27th, 2007, 01:50 PM
I agree with Robert on the clean install. It's a pain re-installing everything, but the time on the front-end is worth it in the long run. It also forces us to make sure we have good backups and that we keep up with install disks and serial numbers :-)

My main editing machine is a Mac Pro. I have no plans to upgrade it until I'm confident everything I need will work. I did a clean install of Leopard on my MacBook Pro last night and I'm using it as my test machine. As I type this, Final Cut Studio 2 is installing. I'll be testing it over the next couple days and will report any issues that come up.

I used SuperDuper! to backup my MacBook Pro, so I can boot from the USB drive should I get into any trouble, plus copy over any files I need. When I upgrade my Mac Pro, I'll do the same so if there are any issues I can quickly boot back to my Tiger system and keep working with no down time.

Cole McDonald
October 27th, 2007, 02:04 PM
Final cut also installs goofy stuff in the system that locks itself to your current setup for its authorization system/copy protection. Small changes in the system don't seem to break it, but I had to reinstall going from 10.3 to 10.4, but not any of the inbetween ones.

Nuke and Pave (who catches the reference? ... who's a real old school mac game geek here?).

Joseph Hutson
October 27th, 2007, 02:39 PM
I just installed Leapord, and need to use FCS 1. It allows me to open it, but locks up immediately!!!

I don't know how to do the clean installation...what do you mean, and is it too late.

What is the future for me, and what do I have to do.

I need to have a short movie done before tonight's church!!!

Robert Lane
October 27th, 2007, 03:19 PM
Joseph,

All is not lost; if you simply installed Leopard over your Tiger installation you can easily go back to that install by looking at your main Mac HDD for a folder called "Previous OS" or something of that nature (it's been so long since I've done that). In there is an entire copy of the previous OS and it's applications.

Here's an older webpage about this process; I believe this will work with going back to 10.4 also:

http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20041201071052204

Cole McDonald
October 27th, 2007, 04:45 PM
back up your data, wipe the drive, reinstall the OS, reinstall final cut...

fastest, best case, reinstall final cut... refer to my previous post here, it does things with the system to keep folks from passing around the software.

Charles Papert
October 27th, 2007, 05:06 PM
With everyone recommending erase and install, I'm not sure if I understand what the best procedure is to reinstall all of my files, apps, preferences etc. as simply as possible...does the Apple Migration Assistant make this seamless, or do I have to copy over things individually? You don't have to reinstall ALL of your apps from discs, do you??

Kevin Spahr
October 28th, 2007, 09:38 AM
I understand that a fresh, clean install is the best, but that will not guarantee that old software will run properly under a new operating system. I would love to hear of one person running an old version of Final Cut on Leopard. Every other app I have works great after the upgrade to Leopard.

Over the many years running Macs (My first was a Mac II), there were VERY few problems when installing system upgrades. More often the problem is old versions of software that have to be upgraded for the new OS. That's my guess in this case - so I'm guessing it's time to spend some $$...

I just thought that anybody else that has been using an old version of FC should be warned ahead of time - if indeed it is true that you need FCS2 for Leopard. Maybe over the next couple of days we'll hear something from Apple on this issue.

Joseph Hutson
October 28th, 2007, 10:01 AM
The thing is, Final Cut Studio 2 has not been working properly either.

Also, if you want to find one person who has FCS 1 working with Leapord, talk to Captain Mench at captmench@mac.com

or look at his remarks at http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1198424&tstart=0

Cole McDonald
October 28th, 2007, 01:02 PM
With everyone recommending erase and install, I'm not sure if I understand what the best procedure is to reinstall all of my files, apps, preferences etc. as simply as possible...does the Apple Migration Assistant make this seamless, or do I have to copy over things individually? You don't have to reinstall ALL of your apps from discs, do you??

Based on my years in IT, I run with all of my OS and apps on one drive and data on a second...that way, if I have to reinstall OS and apps due to technapocalypse, I don't lose any of my data. I reinstall my OS from scratch once a year, and run diskutil repair once a month. For OS updates, I repair the permissions and the disk before the update and after as well.

I keep a spare drive around empty to backup to before doing major upgrades on my system, this drive is only used for backing up my OS + apps drive. I always repair permissions and disk before doing backup.

I always backup before doing larger upgrades on the OS or any of the apps...or once a month if that hasn't happened.

With my data, I use the philosophy, "How much work am I willing to redo?" I backup that often. For me, it's a week.

These "best practices" for me make upgrades painless as I always have a backup to fall back on. They also give me a free and clear way to just jump into a new OS to see if it'll work or fail...and if it fails, I can just pull my data back and move on with my day 'til the next fix comes out.

The extra effort every once in a while will make the issues and apprehension disappear as you're always working with a safety net.

I have yet to get leopard (but will be doing so on my next payday!)...and then I will just install knowing that I can go back if necessary.

To make these backups easier, I've purchased a wiebetech drivedock ( http://wiebetech.com/products/firewiredrivedock.php ) allowing me to buy inexpensive internal IDE harddrives in whatever capacity and just shelve them for backup...I use these for project backups as well...I have roughly 2Tb sitting around on my self that I can just plug in and go when I need to throw out another batch of DVD's for a client or whatever.

I'm currently running FCS1, so I'll be able to get to you with my experiences. If you prepare well for your shoot, it goes smoothly...same goes with computer work...and construction...and...

Joseph Hutson
October 28th, 2007, 02:54 PM
I just opened up FCP again, and as usual it locks up with the beach ball as the mouse cursor.

But what is different, is that instead of force quitting like I usually did, I let it run on for about 3 minutes, and now I am able to open previous FCP files, import video, and audio files, and livetype files.

Also, the same exact thing happened with Motion 2. It would freeze up for a couple of minutes, and NOW I may use it just like normal.

Nate Weaver
October 28th, 2007, 02:58 PM
I'm having no problems so far with FCS2 on 10.5.

Made a disk image of main drive with CCC, wiped drive, installed Leopard, then FCS, then Kona LHe drivers.

Everything so far seems to be fine.

Sheila Ward
October 28th, 2007, 05:09 PM
Things seem good for me too after the clean install of 10.5 and FCS2. I have one little weird thing I can't figure out.

Motion templates are listed in the FCP effects tab, they play, but the video is all black. I can modify text, parms, etc in the viewer but all it ever plays is black video. If I move it to the timeline, same thing, plays the duration but nothing shows up.

If I try to save the project with one of these Motion templates in the timeline, it gives me an "Operation not allowed" error. I remove the template from the timeline and I can save the project with no issues.

The templates work fine in Motion, I can edit and save them with no problems.

I searched the Apple forums and found a couple references to it in different threads, one with FCS2 and one with DVDS3, both after the 10.5 install. No resolution reported yet.

Would love to know if any of you guys are having the same issue.

Bill Davis
October 28th, 2007, 07:09 PM
I'm not saying anything about what any one else's upgrade habits should be nor am I indicating that anyone else will have the same experience I did. But I got Jaguar on Friday and decided it leave it off my main work machine temporarily, but go ahead and install it on my plain ol Macbook (dual core Intel) just to play around with it.

Unlike others here, I did NOTHING about backing up anything or wiping anything. Knowing that my laptop hold only non-critical presentation data and traveling versions of the iDisc files already backed up via Apple, I just loaded the Jag disc and installed it over top of the existing system without any precautions whatsoever.

Essentially, I launched the install and went away cuz I was busy.

A couple of hours later I came back and the OS was upgraded. I tried FCP on the notebook (I do occasional editing demos from it) and everything ran perfectly. No, I did not test every nook and crannie of the program. Just basic launch and basic editing.

Again, I'm not suggesting that YOU won't have some disaster. But I DID NOT.

The stock Apple Install worked flawlessly with no hitches or "gotchas" whatsoever.

Judge your own situation, of course. But this is one voice that did one install on one basic laptop machine with ABSOLUTELY no issues so far.

YMMV.

Cole McDonald
October 28th, 2007, 09:18 PM
If I try to save the project with one of these Motion templates in the timeline, it gives me an "Operation not allowed" error. I remove the template from the timeline and I can save the project with no issues.

Sounds similar to permissions errors I've encountered in the past, but it should persist in Motion as well as FCP...interesting...are you familiar with unix command line stuff at all? I'd love to see 'ls -al' done on the folders with your projects and the motion templates. That would let use see the permissions on each of the files.

Bryan Gilchrist
October 28th, 2007, 10:36 PM
You should always back up your drives no matter if you're doing a clean install or just the upgrade...either way, if anything goes wrong, you won't regret it.

Sheila Ward
October 28th, 2007, 10:41 PM
Sounds similar to permissions errors I've encountered in the past, but it should persist in Motion as well as FCP...interesting...are you familiar with unix command line stuff at all? I'd love to see 'ls -al' done on the folders with your projects and the motion templates. That would let use see the permissions on each of the files.

Is this what your looking for? I did a check on my 10.4 system (where templates work fine) and the permissions match these. I've deleted FCP preferences and repaired permissions with Disk Utility just for grins, nothing helped. It's not a big deal as I have yet to use any of the templates in a project, but it's just the "why", you know? :-)

Let me know if you would like to see anything else. Thanks!

---------------

FCP Project:

drwxr-xr-x 3 sheila staff 102 Oct 28 22:52 .
drwxr-xr-x 4 sheila staff 136 Oct 28 13:45 ..
-rw-r--r--@ 1 sheila staff 31911 Oct 28 18:36 Chase1017.fcp

Motion Templates:

drwxrwxr-x 20 root admin 680 Oct 28 13:21 .
drwxr-xr-x 5 root admin 170 Oct 27 15:20 ..
-rw-rw-r--@ 1 sheila admin 6148 Oct 28 23:01 .DS_Store
drwxr-xr-x 6 root admin 204 Oct 27 15:06 .localized
drwxr-xr-x 112 root admin 3808 Apr 10 2007 3D Text Projects.localized
drwxr-xr-x 28 root admin 952 Apr 11 2007 Basic White.localized
drwxr-xr-x 13 root admin 442 Apr 10 2007 Blocks.localized
drwxr-xr-x 22 root admin 748 Apr 10 2007 Brush Strokes.localized
drwxr-xr-x 28 root admin 952 Apr 10 2007 Curves.localized
drwxr-xr-x 22 root admin 748 Apr 10 2007 Fire.localized
drwxr-xr-x 16 root admin 544 Apr 10 2007 Glass Panes.localized
drwxr-xr-x 22 root admin 748 Apr 10 2007 Light.localized
drwxr-xr-x 34 root admin 1156 Apr 10 2007 Satin.localized
drwxr-xr-x 28 root admin 952 Apr 10 2007 Seasons.localized
drwxr-xr-x 22 root admin 748 Apr 10 2007 Sketch.localized
drwxr-xr-x 22 root admin 748 Apr 10 2007 Slider.localized
drwxr-xr-x 22 root admin 748 Apr 10 2007 Tech Blue.localized
drwxr-xr-x 28 root admin 952 Apr 10 2007 Travel.localized
drwxr-xr-x 28 root admin 952 Apr 10 2007 Water.localized
drwxr-xr-x 22 root admin 748 Apr 10 2007 Weave.localized

Into the "Fire" directory as an example:

drwxr-xr-x 22 root admin 748 Apr 10 2007 .
drwxrwxr-x 20 root admin 680 Oct 28 13:21 ..
drwxr-xr-x 6 root admin 204 Oct 27 15:06 .localized
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 261792 Mar 27 2007 Fire-Lower Third.NTSC.motn
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 18470772 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Lower Third.NTSC.mov
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 21717 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Lower Third.NTSC.png
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 261661 Mar 27 2007 Fire-Lower Third.PAL.motn
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 18470772 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Lower Third.PAL.mov
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 21717 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Lower Third.PAL.png
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 370168 Mar 27 2007 Fire-Mortise 1.NTSC.motn
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 20794278 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Mortise 1.NTSC.mov
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 23193 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Mortise 1.NTSC.png
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 377090 Mar 27 2007 Fire-Mortise 1.PAL.motn
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 20794278 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Mortise 1.PAL.mov
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 23193 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Mortise 1.PAL.png
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 437769 Mar 27 2007 Fire-Mortise 2.NTSC.motn
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 14852585 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Mortise 2.NTSC.mov
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 15173 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Mortise 2.NTSC.png
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 451559 Mar 27 2007 Fire-Mortise 2.PAL.motn
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 14852585 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Mortise 2.PAL.mov
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 15173 Feb 19 2007 Fire-Mortise 2.PAL.png
-r--r--r-- 1 root admin 23193 Feb 19 2007 Fire.localized.png

Cole McDonald
October 29th, 2007, 12:16 AM
I'm on FCS 1, but my permissions for my motion templates read that they are owned by root:wheel, not root:admin as yours are. You may try changing the ownership of ***ONE***

Cole McDonald
October 29th, 2007, 12:22 AM
I'm on FCS 1, but my permissions for my motion templates read that they are owned by root:wheel, not root:admin as yours are. You may try changing the ownership of ***ONE*** of them as a test. If it doesn't work, change it back to what it was.

to change owner ship:

sudo chown root:wheel /Users/Shared/Motion/Templates.localized/Basic\ White.localized

as it is owned by root, you'll need to change it as an administrator, so if the user account you're using isn't admin, you'll need to do it as admin...if the user account you're using is admin...best security practices from the *nix land say you're naughty, you should have a separate account for admin access!

Then try using that template in a project and see if you continue to have the same problem...there are files that template as well, as it's a directory, but trying at the directory level may work for you...or may not, it's just a test. The repetition and inanity of this testing is why IT folks get paid so much.

Shaughan Flynn
October 29th, 2007, 12:08 PM
I blogged a bunch of my experience over the weekend with Leopard and FCS et al.

http://bscenefilms.blogspot.com

Sheila Ward
October 29th, 2007, 04:36 PM
I'm on FCS 1, but my permissions for my motion templates read that they are owned by root:wheel, not root:admin as yours are. You may try changing the ownership of ***ONE*** of them as a test. If it doesn't work, change it back to what it was.

to change owner ship:

sudo chown root:wheel /Users/Shared/Motion/Templates.localized/Basic\ White.localized



The templates are located in Library/Application Support/Final Cut Studio/Motion/Templates on my Tiger and Leopard systems. Probably a difference in FCS1 and FCS2.

I did some tests with permissions but nothing changes the result. I have an IT/Software Development background so unfortunately I'm all too familiar with this stuff :-) I'm going to leave this one alone for now, it's making my head hurt.

Another glitch I ran across today. I opened a project and got the red "The effect "SmoothCam" failed to render" message. I just closed FCP and re-opened and everything worked fine. I read somewhere (can't remember for sure, maybe the Cow forum) that this is an issue with FXPlug plug-ins and Leopard.

David Knaggs
October 29th, 2007, 08:38 PM
I blogged a bunch of my experience over the weekend with Leopard and FCS et al.

http://bscenefilms.blogspot.com

Thanks, Mike (I'm assuming you prefer Mike, I hope that's correct).

Very good to know about your success in installing Leopard over the top of Tiger on the laptop. I'm very interested in your results when you do the same thing with the Mac Pro.

And thanks to Bill Davis as well for posting about your successful install of Leopard over Tiger. (Jaguar, Leopard, Panther, Tiger - I lose track of which is called which sometimes as well!)

Jim Fields
October 30th, 2007, 11:56 AM
I did an erase and install on my Mac Pro.
Leopard and FCP2 seem a bit faster than with Tiger.

I have had no issues at all, I have a large project rendering, burned with DVDSP, and opened Live Type.

I have not tried Color, or Motion yet.

I did experience a weird thing, during the install for FCS2 it only installed each disc, meaning disc 1 installed, then finished, it was up to me to install each content disc on my own.

Leopard is pretty freaking cool, I like it, the new icon views for video in the finder are very useful for locating a video, it is just all around nice.

Philip Thangsombat
October 30th, 2007, 07:25 PM
anybody missing their FXplugins like Vignette and SmoothCam? I can't figure out what happened. I just want to know if this is happening to anybody else.

Sheila Ward
October 31st, 2007, 04:33 PM
Always feels good to know it's not just me:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306892

(about the Master Template issue)

Bryan Gilchrist
November 1st, 2007, 11:19 AM
I did an upgrade without any issues. FCP seems to be working fine.

Although I haven't checked into the templates issue as of yet.

Bill Davis
November 1st, 2007, 09:36 PM
Here is is almost a week after release and I'm actually pretty amazed at the low number of 'issues" posts here.

Apple announced that they've sold 2 MILLION copies of Leopard.

Sure I've read about glitches, mostly in the interoperability of FCP with suitemates like Motion. But over all, I've got to feel that at this level of reported problems represents a major coup for Apple in their ability to rev the whole underlying OS in such a way as to NOT cause way more problems to critical apps like FCP.

So here's kudos to the engineers on both the OS and the App side at Apple.

Seems like they did some really great work on all this.

Jim Fields
November 1st, 2007, 10:48 PM
I have noticed a few things.

MP3 to AIFF would crash when finished in Tiger. Works without crashing in Leopard. Version 2.5

Motion runs...smoother now.

I dont get conforming HDV when rendering HDV footage...why? it just renders it, and faster.

DVDSP is so much better in Leopard.

The ECC errors I was getting with my new memory from OWC are now gone, I have had not 1 ECC Error since installing Leopard.

I figured out how to remove the images for the dock, and make it transparent, thought the reflection thing is next.

Time Machine plain rocks, however, for a true backup of everything you own, even scratch discs, be prepared for having to buy more drives for use in TM.

Screen sharing, wow, now my wife can ask me to look at something on the laptop when she is in the living room, and I dont have to get up to go look, I can just sit my lazy ass right here and view it on my computer in the office. Thumbs up to Apple for helping me remain lazy.

Spotlight has allowed me to create a search, add arguments and narrow my results down to just FCP project files and keep that search as a fast reference, instead of looking through many drives, I click one spot and have a choice of projects.

I hate the transparency of the menu bar.

Spaces.....I am sending Steve J my first born boy for that.
Safari still crashes.

Oh, for those of you who have a Mac pro with 4 or more gigs of memory, and an ATI, try this out to see if you will lock up your computer...
Export a project in Compressor, 150min 2 pass, and run the screen saver called shell. My computer will freeze after 20 minutes. However, for some reason, compressor will continue to work, I just cant shut off the screen saver.

Sam Rosado
November 8th, 2007, 03:05 PM
when installing leopard, the install disk will give you an option to archive your prev disk/version.

Winfried Dobbe
November 11th, 2007, 11:04 AM
I tested the time the smoothcam filter takes to analyse the same clip under Tiger and Leopard. When running Leopard, the time is reduced by 10 %. Not bad.
That was on a dual core Intel.

Sheila Ward
November 14th, 2007, 08:47 PM
Just thought I'd post a quick update on the FCP/Master Template/Leopard issue. It appears the Pro App updates released by Apple today have fixed the issue with using the Master Templates with FCP in Leopard. I've tested on both my MacBook Pro and Mac Pro and all is working fine now.

Gary Williams
December 5th, 2007, 05:24 PM
Has anyone who has done a clean load of leopard and then tried to compress hdv project to H.264 that were project originaly done in tiger and not been able to import them into dvd sp it pops up a window that say imcompatable format anyone seen this too?