Something is up over at Canon with the XL-H1.
Look what there including with the purchace of a new camcorder.

http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=50880

Darrell

Do you think this move is to lessen the blow to people who buy a H1 now, before Canon releases their solid state XL/XH HD series cameras in the spring?

Oh yea, something is coming from Canon.
I expected something sooner, since they usually launch their updates around this time of the year.
Their recent rebates must not of moved as many cameras as they had hoped.
I can't wait to see what is coming next.

Darrell
FIRST CINEMA PICTURES

Do you think this move is to lessen the blow to people who buy a H1 now, before Canon releases their solid state XL/XH HD series cameras in the spring?

Interesting.

Do tell more if there is more at this point.

Thanks

Jay

I don't know anything. Its just speculation on my part. But if a solid state HD camera is coming I would like to know before I shell out my hard earned for Sony's new EX ($7,000) I'm a fan of canon and have been since the Hi8 days, but Now that I have a FSC on my SD canons I don't want to buy another tape based camera when I move to HD. Right now based on specs, the EX has my money. I hope Canon announces their answer to the EX and I hope that answer isn't just a free Firestore with their HDV camera. While it's nice, it's not the same as being built in.

Here's another link.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Rebates_Promos/123107_CANON_XLH1.pdf

Darrell

And here's the official Canon USA press release:

http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20071023_xlseriesann.html

Solid state makes a lot of sense. Goodbye mr. tape.

Too bad there is small hope of the resolution reaching 2k or even 4k.

This is a nice promotion.

It is similar to the deal that purchasers of the XL H1 received, if they attended one of the XL H1 road shows.

This one is more open, in that anyone who purchases the XL H1 receives the FS-C Firestore.

Before you embrace solid-state video recording, consider how you'll store your valuable source video data (footage) after shooting.

A 60-minute MiniDV tape will hold approximately 13 Gigabytes of data (3.6 Megabytes per second)." (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DV).

Here's why I won't abandon tape:

1) I have a 500GB hard drive. This drive wouldn't hold all my raw "footage" if I had to copy it all from MiniDV tape to disc. It's filling up now with edited scenes and compressed final projects.
2) MiniDV tapes are easy to organize on a shelf. They're cheap.
3) Loss due to fire/theft is the primary risk I see for MiniDV tapes, but this is equally true for a hard drive.
4) Hard drives eventually fail. Would you loose everything if this happened? I won't take this risk. I have a 2TB hard drive and I back up everything.

I will use MiniDV tape as an archive for all original footage, and the hard drive for working with copies and for non-linear editing.

Before you embrace solid-state video recording...The advantage of the FireStore recorder included with Canon's promotion is that you don't have to abandon tape. The ideal workflow here is to simultaneously record both to tape and to the FireStore. That way you've got the best of both worlds... an instant archive / backup on tape plus an edit-ready version on the FireStore that doesn't have to be captured. In other words, use the FireStore but keep on using tape as well.

I wouldn't read too much in this promotion from Canon. It may just be what it says it is. A very good deal for the buyers of the XL and a smart way to stir the pot and remind any potential buyer of the Sony Ex that Canon is also offering a tapeless option (with the advantage of tape back up as Chris mentiooned.)

As far as a only tapeless camera, my take is that canon will wait for the xpress card to be very inexpensive and then make a killing. My bet is not before 2009.

The advantage of the FireStore recorder included with Canon's promotion is that you don't have to abandon tape. The ideal workflow here is to simultaneously record both to tape and to the FireStore. That way you've got the best of both worlds... an instant archive / backup on tape plus an edit-ready version on the FireStore that doesn't have to be captured. In other words, use the FireStore but keep on using tape as well.

That is the ideal.....
many times having that tape copy has saved my hide. Having both is what you really want. This offer is very tempting.

Chris, thanks for the explanation. Simultaneous recording to both tape and FireStore sounds like a great solution. The FireStore would transfer data faster to the hard drive, and I'd never touch the tape again unless an archive was needed.

The advantage of the FireStore recorder included with Canon's promotion is that you don't have to abandon tape. The ideal workflow here is to simultaneously record both to tape and to the FireStore. That way you've got the best of both worlds... an instant archive / backup on tape plus an edit-ready version on the FireStore that doesn't have to be captured. In other words, use the FireStore but keep on using tape as well.

I like the idea of tape back-up and firestore for editing. But eventually, tape based solutions will disappear (except DLT perhaps). I'd like to see Canon, Sony, Panasonic, JVC and all camera manufacturer's start bundling their cameras with archive solutions.

I'd like to see... all camera manufacturers start bundling their cameras with archive solutions.I would not like to see that, and it's not likely to happen anyway. The archive solution should be my own decision to make, not the manufacturer's. Why should I have to pay for a bundle component that I might not want to use?

I would not like to see that, and it's not likely to happen anyway. The archive solution should be my own decision to make, not the manufacturer's. Why should I have to pay for a bundle component that I might not want to use?

I'll rephrase...I'd like to see camera manufacturers suggest or even recommend archive solutions. Right now, archiving is an after thought.

The advantage of the FireStore recorder included with Canon's promotion is that you don't have to abandon tape. The ideal workflow here is to simultaneously record both to tape and to the FireStore. That way you've got the best of both worlds... an instant archive / backup on tape plus an edit-ready version on the FireStore that doesn't have to be captured. In other words, use the FireStore but keep on using tape as well.

I've been preaching the gospel about the FS-C for some time now. It's really an underappreciated product, IMHO. (at least for Canon users)

It IS the best of both worlds, and it takes care of a BIG issue that FCP users had with Firestores in that it records the HDV stream as a FCP-native HDV QT file, (not just .m2t or DV) and supports the frame modes too. (24F is recorded as HDV 1080 24p QT)

You can record to tape and to the FS-C simultaneously and enjoy true instant editing after acquisition. (just plug in the FS-C and drag/drop your clips to the appropriate NLE bin) It's also very fast at copying the raw clips to a designated media drive if you feel skittish about using the FS-C as a media drive. I usually could copy an hours worth of footage in less than 10 minutes.

It's truly a wonderful thing to get back from a shoot and be ready to edit with no dog-slow tape digitizing process, yet you can take comfort in putting away your tapes for the archive.

I've tested batch recapture by deleting Firestore clips and doing automated recaps from tape and had no problems.

The only issue I have with the FS-C is that the stock battery isn't nearly enough. It only lasted for about an hour of real capture time. Adding a second, higher capacity battery is an absolute must with the product.

Does it works with Final Cut Express 3.5?

David Newman of Cineform made a teasing comment the other day about the possibility of a Firestore like device that stores in Cineform format.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=106138

" What you really want is a FireStore like device with 1920x1080 10-bit CineForm compression that takes HMDI, HDSDI or component feeds, records to flash or notebook drive and runs on cheap Li-on batteries with couple hours of record time--correct? Interested in pre-ordering? ;) "

Now that sounds HOT!!!

I've been preaching the gospel about the FS-C for some time now. It's really an underappreciated product, IMHO. (at least for Canon users)

It IS the best of both worlds, and it takes care of a BIG issue that FCP users had with Firestores in that it records the HDV stream as a FCP-native HDV QT file, (not just .m2t or DV) and supports the frame modes too. (24F is recorded as HDV 1080 24p QT)

You can record to tape and to the FS-C simultaneously and enjoy true instant editing after acquisition. (just plug in the FS-C and drag/drop your clips to the appropriate NLE bin) It's also very fast at copying the raw clips to a designated media drive if you feel skittish about using the FS-C as a media drive. I usually could copy an hours worth of footage in less than 10 minutes.

It's truly a wonderful thing to get back from a shoot and be ready to edit with no dog-slow tape digitizing process, yet you can take comfort in putting away your tapes for the archive.

I've tested batch recapture by deleting Firestore clips and doing automated recaps from tape and had no problems.

The only issue I have with the FS-C is that the stock battery isn't nearly enough. It only lasted for about an hour of real capture time. Adding a second, higher capacity battery is an absolute must with the product.

Surely the likes of the Sony EX camera will help drive down the price of HDD recorders like the Firestore. This can only be a good thing for me, since as much as i would like the convenience of the firestore, i just can't justify the price. I really wish Bella would get their act together & release their version "Catapult" At the price they were talking about, i would certainly go the way of a HDD recorder, & be loving the fact that i would always have a tape backup!

Bryce

Is there any chance that Canon UK will follow suit and extend the offer to purchasers in Britain?

It's hard to say.
Since I think this is an atempt to dump the remaining hi invatory, it would depend on how many pal cameras are still in stock.
Darrell
FIRST CINEMA PICTURES

Richard,
one more thing. What about ordering one from the states, then take it to a canon service center and have them update the firmware so that it can shoot in the pal format as well.
Darrell
FIRST CINEMA PICTURES

Darrell,

The problem is I would rather buy from a UK registered dealer, as:

1.

Oops, I sent the last one prematurely!

continued: I'd prefer to buy from a bona fide British dealer as:

1. I've got someone accessible to see in any case of post sale problems,

2. Guernsey is not in the EU or actually part of the UK, we are a crown protectorate and are not subject to paying VAT (sales tax).

3. I don't ever see the need to film in NTSC (the quality is inferior to the PAL system).

It would be nice to have the special offers in Britain that you enjoy in the US though.

Regards,

Richard.

Canon XM1, XL2, HV20, Nikon SLR's etc.

3. I don't ever see the need to film in NTSC (the quality is inferior to the PAL system)Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that only apply to SD and not HD video?

The firestore would be NTSC so that´s a problem in it self.
I just realized this when I wanted to buy one here second hand

.... A very good deal for the buyers of the XL and a smart way to stir the pot and remind any potential buyer of the Sony Ex that Canon is also offering a tapeless option (with the advantage of tape back up as Chris mentiooned.)


The EX is half inch CMOS chip though...if they produce a version with interchangeable lenses I would be rather excited!

You can always dump the footage to tape for archive anyway.

Will Canon's next offering be 1/2"???

Before you embrace solid-state video recording, consider how you'll store your valuable source video data (footage) after shooting.

A 60-minute MiniDV tape will hold approximately 13 Gigabytes of data (3.6 Megabytes per second)." (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DV).

Here's why I won't abandon tape:

1) I have a 500GB hard drive. This drive wouldn't hold all my raw "footage" if I had to copy it all from MiniDV tape to disc. It's filling up now with edited scenes and compressed final projects.
2) MiniDV tapes are easy to organize on a shelf. They're cheap.
3) Loss due to fire/theft is the primary risk I see for MiniDV tapes, but this is equally true for a hard drive.
4) Hard drives eventually fail. Would you loose everything if this happened? I won't take this risk. I have a 2TB hard drive and I back up everything.

I will use MiniDV tape as an archive for all original footage, and the hard drive for working with copies and for non-linear editing.I see your points, but the cost argument is getting less and less compelling.

I can get an internal 750 gig WD drive from newegg for $150. That's 20 cents per gigabyte. You'd have to be using $2.60 cent 60 minute MiniDV tapes to match that.

(Granted, external HD's are more expensive, but they still equal about $4 MiniDV tapes... if my math serves me correctly ;))

I personally prefer the tape back up method because if one tape dies I will loose that one project. If one hard drive dies it takes everything on it which is often multiple projects. When working with my projects adding in $8 into the bill for tapes to store a master on is fairly easy to do.