Some of my indoor interview setups will be two (or possibly more) people sitting within a few feet of each other.

I have an MKH-60 for single person interviews. But will it's short shotgun pattern work well when recording two (or even more people) sitting a few feet apart?

I'm trying to the audio as first rate as is reasonably possible (SD 302 and SD 702T recorder are on their way) so up to ~$1,400 for another mic, if necessary, is possible.

BTW, I'm intrigued by the MKH-418S, wondering if it would add a nice stero effect to the recording.

Thanks for all the help!

Take that money and hire a soundie to run the boom mike. A good soundie will be able to move the mic and follow the conversation as well as running the mixer feeding the camera. Having a pair of lavs on each person is good insurance also.

-gb-

Greg,

Thanks for your advice;). I do intend to lav both people, but I still want a boom track.

Unfortunately, there will be times when I'm going to have to mount a mic to an overhead boom stand. In these instances, there will be no moving the mic from subject to subject.

That's why I'm asking about which mic and pick up pattern would be best to use in this situation.

I know it's best to have someone holding the boom, but that isn't always going to be the case.

If you are using the MKH60 for 2 people and hanging it on a stand, aim it more at the softer voice, the louder voice coming a little off axis. Listen for this on headphones when setting up. MKH60 is very forgiving, with good off axis sound IMO. For get about the stereo mic for dialog or adding ambience.... you usually are trying to get only the dialog as clean as possible.

If the people are not moving why not hang a stationary boom above with two hypers (Oktava 012 come to mind, cheap and good enough)? A matched stereo set of two Oktavas with omni, cardioid and hyper capsules is about $600 or something. Depending on the framing you could put the boom below and aim the mics up.

BTW, I'm intrigued by the MKH-418S, wondering if it would add a nice stero effect to the recording.

The MKH-418S is indeed an interesting mic. Really to use it you need to understand booming though, and if possible, make sure you record both channels separately. Most mixers will allow for the MS decoding, but what's nice is keeping them separate, then adjusting the MS decoding in post instead of mixing them down on-the-fly on-location. It is in post that you get to fully adjust the stereo spread, and tweak it so it sounds awesome. However, this is not the microphone to use if you're not good at booming. I like this mic a lot, enough to own one. However, it's not something I recommend to novice boom ops because you have to know where to get the best coverage and you really need two channels. That's why I only will use it when I'm placing both channels on separate tracks on the Deva.

Wayne

If the people are not moving why not hang a stationary boom above with two hypers (Oktava 012 come to mind, cheap and good enough)? A matched stereo set of two Oktavas with omni, cardioid and hyper capsules is about $600 or something. Depending on the framing you could put the boom below and aim the mics up.

or just a cardoid roughly centered. might need to move it away from one of them if they are consistantly louder. this is exactly when a shotgun is the wrong mic. a sound blanket or rug on the floor will also help a lot

The MKH-418S is indeed an interesting mic. Really to use it you need to understand booming though, and if possible, make sure you record both channels separately. Most mixers will allow for the MS decoding, but what's nice is keeping them separate, then adjusting the MS decoding in post instead of mixing them down on-the-fly on-location. It is in post that you get to fully adjust the stereo spread, and tweak it so it sounds awesome. However, this is not the microphone to use if you're not good at booming. I like this mic a lot, enough to own one. However, it's not something I recommend to novice boom ops because you have to know where to get the best coverage and you really need two channels. That's why I only will use it when I'm placing both channels on separate tracks on the Deva.

WayneWayne,

I just changed my recorder order to SD 744T, which would give me four channels. So I should have enough channels to use a mic like the MKH-418S. I AM a novice boom operator and will be mounting the mic on a stand sometimes, but I would like to have the option of creating a stereo effect and do need wider coverage than a normal shotgun provides. Would you recommend using a 418S or a cardiod?

Sometimes the subject will be a couple sitting close to each other, and sometimes it will be a family sitting in a group on a couch and the floor.

My concern is that the 418S may not have a wide enough coverage, especially for the second scenario. But I really don't know.

Thank everyone for all your help ;).

Just wanted to add that I WAS able to change the recorder order, so for an additional $1,775 I get to become the proud owner of a 744T. I'm pretty psyched.

Hello Peter,

You have a truly great piece of gear. Enjoy it. You can set it to record poly wav files that combine all four tracks into one file. Many non-linear digital video editing systems will import the single file and split them out once in side. FCP will.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Wayne,
Would you recommend using a 418S or a cardiod?

Sometimes the subject will be a couple sitting close to each other, and sometimes it will be a family sitting in a group on a couch and the floor.

My concern is that the 418S may not have a wide enough coverage, especially for the second scenario. But I really don't know.


It depends. If you are going to follow the talking, and not allow the mic to be static, the 418s will work, but if you intend on it being more of a static mic and hoping the stereo lobes will cover everybody, I would suggest you instead go with a cardiod mic that might sound better when people are not on-axis.

Wayne

I use this mike and the results are excellent.

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/e413b6d09db34276/index.html


Stelios

It depends. If you are going to follow the talking, and not allow the mic to be static, the 418s will work, but if you intend on it being more of a static mic and hoping the stereo lobes will cover everybody, I would suggest you instead go with a cardiod mic that might sound better when people are not on-axis.

WayneWayne, are there any cardiods that come to mind? I'm trying to stick with Sennheiser, FWIW. Also is there some rule of thumb for estimating how off axis a subject can be with the 418S? The stereo effect is intriguing to me. Thanks much.

P.S. Stelios, I tried the link but it took me to AT's main page. Piecing it together, I believe you're talking about a boundary mike. Is that correct?

Hi
For this sort of thing I would of thought that if you can't get a boomed hypercardioid bang on then you would be better going with a lav on each interviewee. Shotgun aint really the choice as mentioned above.
Hanging a cardioid above and hoping for good sound recordings a bit of an ask in my book.
A well placed lav mic will get you a closer sound that is well fine if done well.
Boom mic's are only best indoors when they are not compromised.

Greg,

Thanks for your advice;). I do intend to lav both people, but I still want a boom track.

Unfortunately, there will be times when I'm going to have to mount a mic to an overhead boom stand. In these instances, there will be no moving the mic from subject to subject.

That's why I'm asking about which mic and pick up pattern would be best to use in this situation.

I know it's best to have someone holding the boom, but that isn't always going to be the case.

Peter,

Don't get hung up on using the boom in this situation. If you had two booms and put one on each track you'd be OK. You either have to dynamically boom the pair or use two booms...or just go with split track lavs.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty,

I've read your reviews of the MKH-60 and MKH-418S. It seems like I could use these in a static dual boom setup (I imagine only using the mid capsule signal of the 418S).

If I'm going to buy a second boom mic, I'd like to get one that might offer something that the 60 doesn't, rather than pay $1.4K for the identical mic.

Do you think the sounds of the 60 and 418S will match reasonably well? Maybe use the 418 for the deeper voice, since it seems to have a little more bottom and the 60 for the higher voice?

P.S. I intend to lav as well, which is why I went for the four track recorder. Thanks for your positive encouragement. :)

There is one good reason for using the boom mic's as you suggest... it will be a good learning experience.

I nearly always find the sound of my MKH60 a bit weird inside. It is a great mic in the right application though. From what I've heard the 418 is essentially a 416 and that is even less forgiving indoors. If you are in a large dead space and you only want tight shots without much above head height you may even get a natural sound from them.

Better to concentrate on getting a pair or more of decent lavs such as Sennheiser MKH2.4 gold or Sony ECM77 and make sure they are done right. After all if you are operating the camera as well you will have a lot to get right.

Maybe it is best not to experiment too much as the shotguns will probably only teach you how they can sound 'wrong'.

Ty,

I've read your reviews of the MKH-60 and MKH-418S. It seems like I could use these in a static dual boom setup (I imagine only using the mid capsule signal of the 418S).

If I'm going to buy a second boom mic, I'd like to get one that might offer something that the 60 doesn't, rather than pay $1.4K for the identical mic.

Do you think the sounds of the 60 and 418S will match reasonably well? Maybe use the 418 for the deeper voice, since it seems to have a little more bottom and the 60 for the higher voice?

P.S. I intend to lav as well, which is why I went for the four track recorder. Thanks for your positive encouragement. :)

Thanks Peter, you'll really like having the four tracks. If you got the 744T, it supports poly wav files. That means you'll see one icon on the hard drive that has all four synchronized tracks in side. Drag and drop and you're done. FCP imports the file and plops it down on four new tracks automatically; very sweet.

Jimmy Tuffrey's comment about learning what's wrong about shotguns inside or in ANY reflective space is right on. For that job, you want a hyper or super cardioid mic. The top mic in that category is the Schoeps cmc641. I own two. I use them inside and outside. They sound great. These are the mics you'll see on feature film sets. Not cheap, but exceptional. I just used my pair yesterday as drum overheads during a music recording session. Also get the B5D pop filter.

The Schoeps CMIT shotgun is also a major contender. It sounds very much like the CMC641, so you can switch from CMC641 to CMIT without a change in sound. It's more natural sounding (less aggressive) than a 416 or 418.

If you really need something different in shotguns there's the Sanken CS-3e and CSS-5 (mono and stereo respectively). The CS-3e is very tight for a shotgun (requiring more careful booming) and does better than most shotguns in reflective environments. Both CS-3e and CSS-5 are similar in sound. The have less low end and don't have the peak of the 416 or 418.

Not knocking the Sennheisers. They are just different. I own a 416 and an 816.

Check the reviews on my site.

Regards,

Ty Ford

...
Better to concentrate on getting a pair or more of decent lavs such as Sennheiser MKH2.4 gold or Sony ECM77 and make sure they are done right. After all if you are operating the camera as well you will have a lot to get right.
...Do you like these lavs more than the Countryman B6? Thanks much to all.

...
Jimmy Tuffrey's comment about learning what's wrong about shotguns inside or in ANY reflective space is right on. For that job, you want a hyper or super cardioid mic. The top mic in that category is the Schoeps cmc641. I own two. I use them inside and outside. They sound great. These are the mics you'll see on feature film sets. Not cheap, but exceptional. I just used my pair yesterday as drum overheads during a music recording session. Also get the B5D pop filter.
...
So for a two person interview, you'd recommend laving each and using two booms. Does it make sense to purchase the matched stereo set of the CMC6-MK41's?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387053-REG/Schoeps_CMC641STG_Colette_Microphone_Stereo_Set.html

What about the situation when a group of about eight people are sittting on a couch and the floor around it? Will setting two CMC641's on boom stands pretty far apart give enough coverage to favorably record such a group?

Thanks again!

Peter Moretti;782947]So for a two person interview, you'd recommend laving each and using two booms. Does it make sense to purchase the matched stereo set of the CMC6-MK41's?

--No, not unless you recorded to four separate channels. That's too many mics for two channels. You 'll get all sorts of phase wash. For two people on camera, I'd either use two lavs, split tracked -- two locked down booms (if the talkers don't move around much) or one boom op covering both people.

What about the situation when a group of about eight people are sittting on a couch and the floor around it? Will setting two CMC641's on boom stands pretty far apart give enough coverage to favorably record such a group?
Thanks again!

--No they won't.
--How are you going to cover that many people with cameras?
Can you break the shot to go back and get someone's missed comment?
If so, you can do it with one camera and one boom op.
If not, you'll need two cameras and two boom ops who can keep out of each others way.

Regards,

Ty Ford

So for a two person interview, you'd recommend laving each and using two booms. Does it make sense to purchase the matched stereo set of the CMC6-MK41's?

--No, not unless you recorded to four separate channels. That's too many mics for two channels. You 'll get all sorts of phase wash. For two people on camera, I'd either use two lavs, split tracked -- two locked down booms (if the talkers don't move around much) or one boom op covering both people.
Actually, I was expecting to record to four separate channels (as a 744T and 302 are on their way).

Why bother to use lavs and booms on each. Do it once right.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Just using dumb logic: if it's best to lav and boom in a one person interview, then I figured it's probably a good idea to lav and boom both people in a two person interview.

It's not necessarily "best" to boom and lav a single interview. Pick the best one and go with it.

Most of the time I pick one and go with it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Do you like these lavs more than the Countryman B6? Thanks much to all.

I mentioned them as they the most common decent lav mic's I come across. Good choice for general TV presenters where the mic is clipped on to wardrobe.

I do a have a countryman but I never use it as it looks a right state and is on the wrong plug.

Personnally for interview situations I don't get hung up on the mic model. As long as it is of a certain standard or not too far below, then it should do the job satisfactorily.

If you want velvet then you use a boom. Say if your doing a special interview with the prime minister or someone and the production requires a grand sound.

Or boom if your doing vox pops and your subjects are coming and going fast and it is the easy way to get them with the least bother.

Doing sound isn't always about the best quality. Sometimes it's not appropriate.

But if everyones sitting down and you want to stay out of the way then the lav's your man for general work.

If it's a radio then the transmitter/receiver combination will have at least as much say over the sound quality as the actual mic. I have two different radios both with ECM77's on and they sound totally different due to the electronics involved.

Why bother to use lavs and booms on each. Do it once right.

Regards,

Ty FordIf I'm going to go w/ two boom mic on stands, would you recommmend getting the match stereo set of CMC641's?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...tereo_Set.html

Peter,

Schoeps makes some pretty tightly speced mics. Sure, matching might help you later.

Regards,

Ty