I don't claim to be the first to do this, but you if your disks get dirty you can just stick them in the dishwasher.... Just joking.

Just to prove how robust the disks are I put one through my dishwasher.

http://www.ingenioustv.com/clips/dishwasherweb.mov

I wouldn't suggest trying this with a tape.

Excellent! I am sold.

Thierry.

Cool clip ... :-)
When I was a kid my first 8mm video-camera got a bit wet once (not on purpose;-) - well, and also did the tape become wet. Most of the footage was "wet" as well and I couldn´t use much of it.
It´s really good to see how everything is moving on:-)

On the other hand, if the tape door to a beta tape pops open and your finger brushes against it, the tape is still usable.

Try that with a fingerprint on a disk...

On the other hand, if the tape door to a beta tape pops open and your finger brushes against it, the tape is still usable.

Try that with a fingerprint on a disk...

I still like my chances with the disc in adverse conditions vs. tape. About the only thing Sony says you can't do, is get fingerprints on the disc, and even then you have to work at doing that (ie on purpose). I may have to test that theory myself!

-gb-

I notice that the more data you cram on a disk, the less forgiving it is. You can really manhandle a CD, and still listen to it. DVDs are more sensitive, and will deal with light scratches, but get very finicky. XDCam has very little tolerance.

Twice I've had a disk pop out of the camera (or deck) with the doors stuck open and fingerprinted the disk. First one was unrecoverable; second one I took a cotton pad and alcohol and wiped away the print, and pried the doors closed.

It's a similar give and take with cell phones... analog phones, you got snow all the time -- it was like being on a walkie talkie. Now with digital phones, it's much clearer! But down at the bottom of that valley... g'bye! Dropped call.

I notice that the more data you cram on a disk, the less forgiving it is. You can really manhandle a CD, and still listen to it. DVDs are more sensitive, and will deal with light scratches, but get very finicky. XDCam has very little tolerance.

Twice I've had a disk pop out of the camera (or deck) with the doors stuck open and fingerprinted the disk. First one was unrecoverable; second one I took a cotton pad and alcohol and wiped away the print, and pried the doors closed.

It's a similar give and take with cell phones... analog phones, you got snow all the time -- it was like being on a walkie talkie. Now with digital phones, it's much clearer! But down at the bottom of that valley... g'bye! Dropped call.

My staff of 19 photogs and myself have been using XDCAM HD (PDW-F350's + both deck styles), producing local news on a daily basis with 10 edit bays, 5 live trucks and a sat truck and multiple logging XD decks and have NEVER had this happen. Not saying it didn't, just stating that out of the many, many times discs have been ejected over the past year (thousands+) we never had a disc exposed. Only two that I'm aware of were supposedly corrupted, but I never laid eyes on them myself (heard about it through a Canopus tech).

My staff of 25 photogs, 8 live trucks, one satellite truck and a helicopter have seen a few fingerprints, and a few problems. Given the choice, I'd stiill choose XDCam instead of Beta - I love the format, and the options. I merely dispute the fact that disk is without problems.

Twice I've had a disk pop out of the camera (or deck) with the doors stuck open and fingerprinted the disk. First one was unrecoverable; second one I took a cotton pad and alcohol and wiped away the print, and pried the doors closed.

Mind boggling. That's the first I've ever heard of that happening. BTW, you don't have to pry the doors shut, just roll the toothed gear on the edge of the disc until you hear a distinct 'click' as the door latch engages.

Out of curiosity, are you using Sony branded discs, or one of the other three brands.

Great video Alister.

Regarding disc doors getting stuck open, I have never had this happen, and this is the first I've known of it.

However news camera people are worse than toddlers for being able to find ways to destroy stuff, so I'll put it down to that! ;-)

I should add though Mike that you should be able to wipe the fingerprint off the disc. The surface of those things are harder than diamond so the chances of scratching them is pretty remote.

We're using the Sony branded disks. It's happened to me personally once, and we had to retire the disk. As much of an issue as it's turning into in this thread, I don't really consider it that much of a problem. Like I said, I'd buy again.

The TDK disks are supposed to be tougher than the sony disks. The disk I washed was a Sony one. I have been at a dealer conference and the disk got passed around, opened up, had finger prints all over the disk and after wiping off the prints it still works. I wouldn't use it again for anything else, but I can still play back the clips.

When I was storm chasing last year we were in Mini Cooper that was all but destroyed in a hail storm. The car was full of hail, which melted soaking everything including a months worth of rushes. My HDV tapes were ruined while my XDCAM HD disks were fine once dried off.

Mike, there must be something going on with the cameras that you use for you to have this issue across your whole staff and cameras while to my knowledge I haven't heard of this problem elsewhere. This shouldn't be happening at all.

All I can think is that either;

1. You've had a dodgy batch of discs.
2. The discs are getting seriously mistreated (how did finger prints get on the disc surface anyway?)
3. There is something seriously amiss with your drive mechanism and it isn't properly making contact with the geared part of the disc that opens and closes the door.

Whatever the case this problem shouldn't be ocurring at all, even on a very infrequent basis and IMHO either the equipment or something your crew is doing needs looking at to get to the bottom of it.

fantastic video!!

How about putting the cam in the diswasher?

just kiddin´ ;-)

ULi

Mike, there must be something going on with the cameras that you use for you to have this issue across your whole staff...

Are you reading the same thread I'm reading?

I've shot hundreds of disks, often doing demos where the disks are going in and out of the camera all day and I have NEVER had a disk come out with the shutters open.

1. You've had a dodgy batch of discs.
2. The discs are getting seriously mistreated (how did finger prints get on the disc surface anyway?)

I was guessing #1, which is why I originally asked which brand of discs were in use.

As to fingerprints, that's easy. If the disc does eject with the doors open, your fingers are going to lay right on the exposed disc as you grab it to remove it from the camera.

@Mike,

We're just trying to solve an issue here. This shouldn't be happening at all. Period. The vast majority of folks in this forum are owners of their cameras, not part of a tv station crew. One of the hallmarks of fortitude with the disc media is the protective shell around the disc. Coming out with the doors open compromises that integrity as you have learned first hand. Since the discs are re-usable, you'll continue having this problem if it is indeed a batch of improperly manufactured discs.

I think Sony would definitely want to know of incidents like this. They have worked very closely with independents like myself, Simon, and Alister. I had an issue with my camera last summer and they were all over it, due to concerns it might be a design issue, rather than an isolated incident.

-gb-

Great video Alister, Now I think we need to know which brand of dishwashing detergent is best for cleaning fingerprints off disks. :-)

cheers

Morton

HI Alister,

I was hired to work for sony germany and present SONY VEGAS PRO in conjunction with XDCAM HD and EXCAM EX1 editing while there actual roadshow.

At the first venue (out of 5) I found that your dishwasher video runs on a laptop on the XDCAM HD booth - and people love it!
(despite the fact that XDCAM HD is really THAT robust of course).

Next week (berlin) I´ll make a pic.

BR

ULI