How many hours do you usually spend in post?

"Roughly" 1 hour per each minute in the finished edit. Some more... some less.

40-55 hours for me. This doesn't include capture time.

Every hour of footage equates to 10hours in post, including capture, cull, trim, sequence, colour correct/match, check, edit, master audio, view finished edit, process/render master video and audio, transcode for DVD, author DVD, burn, print disc, print sleeve, cut sleeve and package discs.

Bout 20 for me, not including capture time.

Once I get it all on the editing computer probably 20-40 hours depending on how much I shot. Lots of work for a hour long DVD the couple gets!!

Jeff

How many hours do you usually spend in post?

This is the part of the service that the industry doesn't publish much. That means brides don't realize how long it takes. I remind the couple that I will be spending 1-4hrs per minute of finished footage to complete their movie and that this is different from photographers, especially if the photographer doesn't do an touch-ups.

Hi Jason,

This is the part of the service that the industry doesn't publish much.

So right. Our clients only see us for about 20% of the actual time it takes to produce their product.

Wow. Joel "one-ups" all of us with a pie chart. :)

I've also found the less direct interaction you have with the client means less post work. For me anyway. (i.e., the MOB/MOG hires you).

Hi Jason,So right. Our clients only see us for about 20% of the actual time it takes to produce their product.

Where did you get this pie chart, and if you created it, would you mind if I used it on my site? This is exactly the kind of graphical representation of the video work flow I have been looking for.

Wow. Joel "one-ups" all of us with a pie chart. :)

Yeah, Joel, that's a great pie chart. I think you've posted it before? I seem to remember it.

Would be even better if you had the percentage figures next to the coloured bullets as well. For some of us mildly red-green colour blind (like me) it's hard to tell which bullet goes with what slice.

Really useful, though, thanks.

Hi Jason and Vito,

Where did you get this pie chart, and if you created it, would you mind if I used it on my site? This is exactly the kind of graphical representation of the video work flow I have been looking for.

I put it together a while ago for my very neglected blog:

http://tinyurl.com/3xwnov

There are links for the graphic at the bottom of that entries page. Vito - I like the idea for the percentages next to the descriptions. I'll see if I can find the original file. I did it in Apple's Pages application.

Vito - I like the idea for the percentages next to the descriptions. I'll see if I can find the original file.

Here you go:

http://www.nosmallroles.com/chart.psd

Hope you like it.

Cheers,
Vito

Love the pie chart. I might have to find a way to use that on my website.

As for the original question . . . I spend anywhere from 80-120 hours per wedding (for my cinematic features). It's painstaking work.

Perfect!!!


Here you go:

http://www.nosmallroles.com/chart.psd

Hope you like it.

Cheers,
Vito

Love the pie chart. I might have to find a way to use that on my website.

As for the original question . . . I spend anywhere from 80-120 hours per wedding (for my cinematic features). It's painstaking work.

Yikes! You might want to seek out ways to make your workflow more efficient. I don't like to see the word 'pain' in there...

Perfect!!!

Glad you like it. Thanks for putting it together in the first place.

I spend anywhere from 80-120 hours per wedding.

Travis. Why is it taking you so long? That seems excessive. As Joel suggests, finding a way to streamline your edit process would really be in your best interest. Are you dealing with multiple cameras and miles of footage?

I'm very annoyed if it takes me 30 hours to edit a full wedding video with highlights and a photo montage. And that's with full colour correction and audio sweetening. I aim for 25 hours (edit time), and am happy if I can get it down to 20.

This is usually with one camera (sometimes two), about 5 hours of footage, and three audio sources.

If you could give us an idea of what you are doing, perhaps we could suggest ways to save you time.

Cheers,
Vito

It sounds like diminishing returns are at work here. I can edit an entire wedding in 30 hours flat, but I'm damn sure that watching it again in a couple of days will have me saying, 'How on earth could I have let that through?'

So it's back to the timeline, and 40 to 50 hours is much more like it.

tom.

It sounds like diminishing returns are at work here.

Yeah, absolutely. You have to know when to stop, or you end up agonizing for hours over details that only you will notice.

Travis. Why is it taking you so long? That seems excessive. As Joel suggests, finding a way to streamline your edit process would really be in your best interest. Are you dealing with multiple cameras and miles of footage?

I'm very annoyed if it takes me 30 hours to edit a full wedding video with highlights and a photo montage. And that's with full colour correction and audio sweetening. I aim for 25 hours (edit time), and am happy if I can get it down to 20.

This is usually with one camera (sometimes two), about 5 hours of footage, and three audio sources.

If you could give us an idea of what you are doing, perhaps we could suggest ways to save you time.

Cheers,
Vito


Sorry for the late response. I've been busy with weddings and wedding shows and whatnot.

Anyways, I generally shoot the rehearsal and rehearsal dinner (1 camera), pre-ceremony with the girls and pre-ceremony with the guys (1 camera with each), the photoshoot (2 cameras), the ceremony (3 cameras) and the reception (2 cameras). So on average I have around 8-12 hours of footage.

I then edit a main feature which spans all of the coverage(rehearsal, dinner, pre-ceremony, photoshoot, ceremony and reception) and is set to music and edited cinematically with actual audio interjected over the music at appropriate times. This main feature is anywhere from 15-30 minutes in length. I also edit the ceremony for real time presentation using all 3 camera angles and audio from 2 lapel mics (these are generally 20-30 minutes in length). I edit a highlights video as well, featuring all of the best moments from the wedding (usually 4-5 minutes in length). I then edit sections from the reception for presentation in real time, such as first dance, other important dances, cake cutting, etc. (using the footage from both cameras). Finally, I edit together the deleted scenes (15-45 minutes in length).

After all of this I design a custom menu interface for the DVD and custom artwork for the DVD face and case cover.


So I don't know if that's similar to you guys or not, but I would also say I'm very much a perfectionist. My goal is to produce a product that my couple only says good things about. About 99.9% of the time I achieve that, and although it costs me lots of hours I think it's worth it for the reviews and referrals that I get. Quality wedding videography in not very popular in my market yet, so I'm trying to build it up.

Hey Travis,

Couple of comments and suggestions for you. They may or may not be of use to you, as only you know the realities of your market. But here goes...

Anyways, I generally shoot the rehearsal and rehearsal dinner (1 camera)

Is that a selling point for your clients? We don't go anywhere near the rehearsal. If you could remove that from your package, imagine the time you would save. You could still GO to the rehearsal, if it's helpful for the wedding shoot setup, but do they really need it on video?

pre-ceremony with the girls and pre-ceremony with the guys (1 camera with each)

Pretty much what we do. Except first we go to the groom's for an hour or so, then the bride's with the same camera. The real question is, though, how much are you shooting there? I shoot a max of one hour total preparation footage. Considering it fills perhaps 8 minutes of the final video, that's still a 7:1 ratio, which is plenty.

the photoshoot (2 cameras),

I think that's overkill. Give the second guy a break. The photoshoot will generate perhaps 30 minutes footage total for me. One camera is fine.

the ceremony (3 cameras)

You're lucky to have such coverage! I wish...

Anyway, are all cameras shooting without pause for the entire ceremony? This greatly simplifies a multicamera edit. Does your NLE have multicam? Very helpful. If yes, you can line up all your audio sources with your multicam clip and it will all be in sync ready to go. If your cameramen are stopping and starting, multicam editing turns into a nightmare...

and the reception (2 cameras).

Two cameras are useful at the reception for official dances and speeches, but I bet you could cut down on the amount you shoot here, too.

I then edit a main feature......cake cutting, etc. (using the footage from both cameras).

I suppose I edit similarly to that, but in a more straightforward fashion. The long form videos we do are about 60-90 minutes in length, but are really set up as a movie that flows from start to end. So the edit can proceed in a very chronological way. As I go, I put aside clips I would like to use in a highlights section, so that there's not too much repeat in material.

Finally, I edit together the deleted scenes (15-45 minutes in length).

Do you mean you edit the left over raw footage? Never in a million years would I do that. Don't offer that in your package. They'll never watch it, and it's just a waste of your time for nothing.

After all of this I design a custom menu interface for the DVD and custom artwork for the DVD face and case cover.

No argument there.

So I don't know if that's similar to you guys or not, but I would also say I'm very much a perfectionist. My goal is to produce a product that my couple only says good things about.

Absolutely that should be your goal.

About 99.9% of the time I achieve that, and although it costs me lots of hours I think it's worth it for the reviews and referrals that I get. Quality wedding videography in not very popular in my market yet, so I'm trying to build it up.

Can't really argue with that, either. Only you know, however, how anal you're being in your edit. You can spend forever on a video if you refuse to let go.

I stress the point of not overshooting because I realize from my own experience that each hour of footage translates into 2-3 hours of edit time just to rough cut. Shoot one hour less, you save that 2-3 hours.

Anyway, these are just a few thoughts you can ignore or use if you like. I don't know the situation you are in for your market, so I could be just dead wrong on all points.

Whew! Long post!

All the best,
Vito

Regarding the rehearsal, I always want to be there so I can plan for the ceremony shoot the next day. So it just made sense to me to charge a little more and shoot the rehearsal since I'm already there. Regarding the dinner, I just removed coverage of the dinner from my most popular package this fall and it is now available as an add-on. I'm not fond of shooting the dinners because there usually isn't much to shoot and I might have to hang around for 2-3 hours to shoot 15 minutes of toasts and gift-giving. I've had enough people ask about rehearsal coverage that it made sense to just incorporate it into the package.


Regarding preceremony, I almost always have to have an assistant shoot the guys because they are at another location getting ready at the same time as the girls. I usually get 30-60 minutes of footage from the guys and around 2 hours for the girls. I'll admit I shoot a lot but that's because I want to capture conversations and moments that I can use later. For a time I went with a shorter shooting style and felt like I got a lot less of that meaningful content so I went back to just shooting more.


I use 2 cameras at the photoshoot so that I get different styles and angles. Granted, it IS an area where I could cut some shooting footage and not be in a bind, but I like my assistant to shoot with me so that they continue to get experience and try out new shots.


The ceremony edit is usually the fastest and easiest, despite the 3 angles. I haven't played with the multi-cam feature in FCP yet. Right now I simply sync up the tracks from all 3 cameras on the timeline and just scrub and cut. Multi-cam might make that go a little faster, so I'll check it out when I get caught up on weddings.


The reception is a lot like the photoshoot. I like the security of having 2 cameras covering the important events, and I like the idea of my assistant shooting additional footage to gain additional experience and try out new shots. To be honest, I don't usually use much of the assistant's additional footage. I scrub through it pretty quickly and toss most of it.


My editing process has improved a lot this year. I used to edit from the raw footage directly, which takes FOREVER. Now I go through the raw footage and cut out anything I know I'll never use. As I go I separate the clips into clips that I might want to use with audio and clips that are to be used without audio. It's helped a lot.


By deleted scenes I don't mean I edit ALL of the raw footage. What I mean is after I rough cut everything, and edit the main feature and everything else, I take a look at anything I didn't use and decide if it's worthy of deleted scenes or not. It's a pretty quick process and my couples seem to love the deleted scenes feature.


In retrospect I think the 2 things that I spend the most time on are rough-cutting footage and editing the main feature. The rough footage takes a while because there's just so much footage, and the main feature takes a while because it's pretty intensive editing (and I'm a perfectionist).

I could certainly shoot less and edit less, but I think it would be too much of a step backwards for me. I'd rather stick with the program and get my market to the point where people show up at my studio EXPECTING to see good work. When that starts happening I can charge more and get paid what I'm worth . . . I hope . . .

Until then, I'm always on the lookout for tips to speed things up. Thanks a bunch for offering the ideas you did. I appreciate it.

I could certainly shoot less and edit less, but I think it would be too much of a step backwards for me. I'd rather stick with the program and get my market to the point where people show up at my studio EXPECTING to see good work. When that starts happening I can charge more and get paid what I'm worth . . . I hope . . .

I don't think it would be a step backwards. Ideally, what you would want would be to be able to provide the same excellent product, but at the same time to streamline your shooting and editing to make the workflow more efficient.

For example, I used to shoot a lot more, until I realized there were things that I always shot, but never used in the video. But I would still waste time rough cutting around it. So I consciously started to not shoot things I knew wouldn't make the cut.

Until then, I'm always on the lookout for tips to speed things up. Thanks a bunch for offering the ideas you did. I appreciate it.

My pleasure. I've learned so much from everyone here, yourself included, that it's nice to at least try to contribute if I can.

All the best,
Vito

I totally agree, which is why I think I should probably check out the multi-cam feature in FCP. Streamlining my editing would save me $$$.

However, I don't think I could shoot much less than I do and be happy. Granted I shoot a lot that doesn't get used, but in order to capture the telling of that awesome story from start to finish you have to be recording at the start of it. When I tried cutting my shooting down I just noticed I was missing a lot of those conversational moments. Obviously I don't use all of them, but a lot them make it into the deleted scenes, and my couples have expressed that they really like that so I can't see myself going back at this point.

I probably should have also mentioned that I have an auto-immune disease which definitely impacts my ability to edit as quickly as I could without that crap. On good days my editing really flows, but on bad days it's a major struggle just to rough cut raw footage. Any tips for autoimmune diseases? LOL

Any tips for autoimmune diseases? LOL

If I did, I'd be happy to share, but you stumped me with that one!

late 20s/early 30s for about 8 tape weddings.

I could spend anywhere from 20-50 hours editing a wedding. It really boils down to what package they went with and how much coverage. I've had some weddings that I've edited easily in under 20 hours. These are the sort where the ceremony takes a max of 15 mins in a garden, and the speeches probably are a similar length. I make up time on these projects, however I then have a wedding that may take over 50 hours because there was more coverage and long service, speeches, reception items etc.

I'm always trying to learn new processes to make things faster as I do this as a side business and my evenings are rare that I'm not working.

IF anything, the part that I'm looking forward to cutting time down is the capturing (looking at the EX1) and also the burning. I love the idea of being able to start editing the day after while its fresh in your mind, rather than sitting down to capture...and then not getting a chance to look at it for a week...Also I'm about to get a DVD duplicator/printer. I hate having to swap DVDs and insert them into the printer etc. All of my packages they get 5 copies and some order more... so when your burning DL and its a full disc it can slow down the process. I like the idea of setting it up to go, goto bed or go off to work and come back and its all done ready to go into the cases.

BTW, multicam in FCP is so worth it. I was using Premiere a few years back and before this feature was available it was such a pain to go between cameras on the timeline, especially for 3 cam shoots. Multicam fixes all of that. I'd recommend learning how to use it, its not that hard.

Just my 2 cents worth...

I am editing for a wedding company now. A 20 minute cinematic film and 4-5 extra feature clips of the big events of the day for the dvd. The day mostly as 2 cameras at a time with prep and 3 cams for ceremony. glidecam footage too.

Im done all the extra clips and 65% done the film. Ive spent 28 hours so far. Removing the studying of how his films are edited and gettins ome plugins working, i should really be at 26 hours. Hoping top get this whole thing done within 40 hours.

I just looked up my logs since we keep track of our times on every project.

For a wedding about 60hrs with 3 -5 minute highlights,80hrs with feature films.

I expect to cut the 80hrs to about 60hrs this year because I finally figured out a way to edit efficiently with feature films.

whats that?

its more likely to be weeks for me rather than hours!!
I think i suffer from attention deficit. I'm the sort of person that if i have time, i'll burn it up til i'm under pressure and then i'll perform much better. I havent done many and dont plan to be flat out so i suppose i can have a certain luxury wen it comes to editing although if im under pressure i suppose it'd be in the 60 - 70 hour mark.
and that pie chart is great - well done.

Have you calculated your hourly wage after you put in the edit time?

I shoot several events per week with one or multiple HD cameras, plus audio. Spending an hour per minute of final video is out of the question and inappropriate for documentary-style event coverage. Are you all doing cinematic coverage?

Thanks.

what im editing is a cinematic style with music and live cuts throughout. If i was editing a straight raw footage type of wedding film which im assuming the documentary style is, then i would get the film done in half the time. 20 hours max.

I'm at 15-20 hrs for 3-5 min trailer (culling, editing, grading). 20-25 hrs for feature (10-20 min). When your at the level of Travis (Ray Roman, Michael P.), I think its not unusual to use up 100 hours.