Paul, as soon as I get the camera, I'll start testing it and posting as many clips as I can. Let me know if you want me to do any other specific test.

I also think the quality of these lenses is quite close to digital cinema standards. If you think about it, tack sharp images are a priority in machine vision systems. In fact I think these lenses lack the organic (and a little more soft) feeling you get with old 16mm lenses, which for me is also very interesting. I've read things about old Angenieux super 16mm zooms which can capture very beautiful images with a great balance between sharpness and softness, impossible to get with new lenses without post work. But anyway, I prefer to have my clips as clean and sharp as possible and then get them dirty in post.

And Daniel, it's great to know there will be more independent software projects for this camera. Can we expect a public release for people like me who can't write a single line of code?

I also hope I can get my cam soon. I've mailed Farhad asking about it and got no reply yet. I paid for mine about 10 days ago and I just can't wait to get my hands on it. How long did it take for you Daniel?

And Daniel, it's great to know there will be more independent software projects for this camera. Can we expect a public release for people like me who can't write a single line of code?

I plan to release the software as open source, but it may be a while till then. Right now im going to concentrate on getting the camera ready for production.

How long did it take for you Daniel?

It took a little while. I first contacted Farhad with my intent to buy about 25 days ago. Everything was settled about 14 days ago.

The camera was shipped this Tuesday and I got the invoice a little later. It just came in earlier today. Well not quite... FedEx could not find my home so im going to pick it up at 4:00 from the location in town.

If things go well I will have some images/videos to post here soon.

It's already there!! I can't wait to see clips!

Ok, so if I paid 10 days ago... in about 5 to 10 days more I may have it here (if everythings goes ok).

Please post something as soon as you get home with the cam.

Ok, I got a mail from Farhad saying they'll ship the cam next monday. Can't wait!!

Hey Jose,

Is this the lens you got?
http://www.avsupply.com/details/m6z1212.shtml


I'm seeing prices all over the place, so wanted to know what you paid for it too.

I might just be with you guys if the footage looks good.

Hi Samuel,

Yes, that's the lens I bought. I paid $297 plus shipment and I find it quite cheap since I've been told this' one of the best possible choices for 2/3" HD sensors in terms of quality/price. I know Fujinon is even better, but they didn't have anything like this, so the options were this zoom or three Fujinon primes. Personally I prefer a zoom, so I can have every single focal lenght from 12,5 to 75mm.

Before anyone points it out, I know there're very high quality super16mm lenses from old cameras out there giving better (or more cinematic) results at similar prices or even cheaper. Let alone the ones which are even more expensive. But I also knew there're many people trying to sell crap and since I don't know much about old lenses, I wanted to start with this one. My next lens will probably be an old Angenieux zoom and I'll ask a lot before buying.

So Daniel... What's the first thing you shot with yours??

I'm replying here because I feel its a more appropriate place.

Note that my camera was shipped with the old, incorrect filter. It cuts too much blue and red, I should be getting the new filter from Sumix sometime soon...

Meanwhile, any results I post should not be used to judge the overall capabilities of the camera. In addition to that, i'm still just learning how to use it so my white balance and other settings are likely to be incorrect.

Here are some test grabs from earlier today. Each is accompanied by a quick auto levels, contrast, and color (cc in file name).

http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/personal/daniel/experimental/SMX12A2/imgs/FRAME_24.jpg
http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/personal/daniel/experimental/SMX12A2/imgs/FRAME_24-cc.jpg

http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/personal/daniel/experimental/SMX12A2/imgs/FRAME_30.jpg
http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/personal/daniel/experimental/SMX12A2/imgs/FRAME_30-cc.jpg

http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/personal/daniel/experimental/SMX12A2/imgs/FRAME_34.jpg
http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/personal/daniel/experimental/SMX12A2/imgs/FRAME_34-cc.jpg

Not aiming for anything artistic, did not have time to do a big setup. Only lit with 2 150w Fresnel lights. Had to turn the gain up considerably.
Used a TV zoom lens.

You're right... Too much green. But it looks promising... Way better than any HDV cam, as expected, and closer to a DSLR image. What kind of tv lens are you using? It looks extremely sharp! (Notice the upper leafs in the second and third image)

I'd like to see a DOF test with a focal lenght of 50mm so we can see what are those 2/3" capable of.

Other than that it looks like we've got a really good cam here. As with all digital cams, it has little problems with highlights, but that's something we're used to and can be retouched in post.

The absorptive filter on this camera takes out more than 60% of blue light that the Altasens sensor is sensitive to. We have been experimenting with two other filters. Although they are much better, they are still not satisfactory. One is Reflective IRC30 which has narrow acceptance angle not suitable for small F# when used inside the camera. The other one is absorptive IRC20 which is still quite thick and not optimal. We either solve this problem or you must use IR cut filters in front of your lenses.
We are now attempting to design a reflective filter with several coating layers that will accept sharp angles with a final hard coat that would allow easy cleaning. This may take a while before we can produce such filter at low cost.
Would you help us to decide on parameters of a basic lens that you would find useful--such parameters as FOV, F#, focusing range, depth of focus at different focuses? Putting the filtering inside the lens will make it easier as it can be placed where light rays are most parallel.

So which one is the filter you're including with my cam?

Jose, that will be IRC20 for now. To be replaced later.

I used two lenses that day. One was a Computar lens which gave me some results I was not pleased with. The lens used in the images posted reads TV ZOOM LENS T6X13.5 13.5-81mm 1:1.8 Made in Japan. I see no make written on it.

I'm considering buying the same Computar M6Z1212 lens posted earlier.

Looking forward to Luc's recording software, hope he has something for us soon.

If you wait a few days I can post images shot with the Computar M6Z1212 zoom.

It's been a while... glad I checked in on this thread today!

Jose - can't wait to see what you get out of the sumix!

Could you super smart guys tell me if this is possible to 'bracket' multiple shot sequences say -3eV,-1.5eV,0,1.5eV,3eV and simply capture the sequenced bracketed frames to a drive(laptop). I'm still looking for a way to do this custom via a camera like the SMX-12A2... Is it possible?

I'm dieing to do some more HDR experimentation (I've been playing with motion CGI light probes) and If I Could get into the 5-FPS range I'd be so thrilled!

Am I dreaming??

mmm... I don't quite get what you're trying to do... Do you mean shooting the same sequence, with the same camera but with 5 different exposition values, just like a HDR photo?

If that's what you mean, I don't think that's possible.

Yes much like a HDR photo workflow... Basically, change the exposure time frame by frame and save the brackets. Then in post I'll blend them back together into a radiance sequence.

So there is not that level of shutter control eh? I assume your controlling the shutter via software... I was hoping that a script could control the sensor frame by frame and dump the individual frames to a drive. Shucks. I'll keep looking!

Till then I'll still be interested it see how this camera works for you!

So there is not that level of shutter control eh? I assume your controlling the shutter via software... I was hoping that a script could control the sensor frame by frame and dump the individual frames to a drive. Shucks. I'll keep looking!

You can control exposure and sensor frequency through the software. I think its possible to do what you ask but I don't know what kind of framerate you will be able to get.

I posted the software that came with my camera in another thread. Here is the link if you want to play with it:
http://www.dreamstonestudios.com/personal/daniel/experimental/SMX12A2/development/

Ah! All may not be lost... thanks for the input Daniel!

Yes the $2500 question is what sort of frame rate could be accieved. Like I said if I could get anywhere in the ballpark of 5-FPS I'd be so exited. With my current setup I get around 1-FPS so it takes 5 seconds to gather 5 brackets (albeit at 4K but I'd be very happy with a faster 1080)

If I could get 10-FPS I'd be all over this!

Jay,

Very good idea. We will put it in the firmware. You would be able to choose double frequencies. Every other frame will be captured with every other frequency therefore having a different exposure.

We are also going for a 3D camera (several years project) with an array of 2x2 or 3x3 sensors (1/3" sensors) each with its own lens, filter, and now perhaps with a different frequency. The big advantage of a 3D camera is that you can control the depth of focus. In addition you have other information like optical flow that you can turn into brightness or color.

Wow, great. I'm very inspired! So this would only allow 2 brackets correct? or could 3, 4, or 5 be stacked? Actually 4 would probably do quite well at 1.5eV spacings... I'm forgetting what the dynamic range of the sensor was estimated at.

I'm definately no programmer but after a quick look at the API my crazy idea looks promising.

Strap this 180d lens on it (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/404281-REG/Fujinon_FE185C057HA1_FE185C057HA_1_2_3_1_8mm_F_1_4.html) and "live" action sky dome light probes could be had... That's my target!

camera supports 7 frequencies, approximately 10, 15, 20, 25, 36, 68, 74
How easily we can fit complex configurations in our FPGA is the question.

We are also going for a 3D camera (several years project) with an array of 2x2 or 3x3 sensors (1/3" sensors) each with its own lens, filter, and now perhaps with a different frequency. The big advantage of a 3D camera is that you can control the depth of focus. In addition you have other information like optical flow that you can turn into brightness or color.

Farhad, i can't find info about 3D cameras with 1/3" sensors on sumix.com...
These also GiGe cameras ? Working with Norpix & Cineform?
SMX-12A2C cameras have same ability for synchronisation master-slave as SI2K ? http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=116954

Thanks.

(several years project)

There is your answer...

Yes the $2500 question is what sort of frame rate could be accieved. Like I said if I could get anywhere in the ballpark of 5-FPS I'd be so exited. With my current setup I get around 1-FPS so it takes 5 seconds to gather 5 brackets (albeit at 4K but I'd be very happy with a faster 1080)


Can you give some information on your current setup? Because that is exactly what I am looking for!

Another question... Would it be possible to add some kind of viewfinder to this cam? I mean, are there electronic viewfinders with VGA in?

Another question... Would it be possible to add some kind of viewfinder to this cam? I mean, are there electronic viewfinders with VGA in?

A good viewfinder option for this type of camera is an optical one built into the lens.

Like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ANGENENIEUX-9-5-95MM-F-2-2-ZOOM-LENS-16MM-C-MOUNT_W0QQitemZ320228266174QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320228266174&_trksid=p3286.c57.l1288

You can sometimes find one on ebay.

I'm using a 7" 1024x768 touch screen lcd. It works great as an interface with the computer, except its difficult to see outdoors. I have not yet looked at any anti-glare products. A hood is not a good option since its a touch screen.

If anti-glare products fail to give a good result I guess a black cloth will be the last option.

I just bought a 7" touchscreen lcd too, but I've been asked if I could find a viewfinder, since one of the camera operators is very used to shooting that way.

I've seen OEM 2.5" lcds too. Maybe adding an optical viewfinder on top of it...

Serge,

Jay is correct. First we implement multi sensor camera for increasing pixel count and field of view for our interferometers and let the expenses be covered this way. 3D cinema camera introduction will be possible only after USB 3.0 or 10 GiGE is practical. The reason I mentioned it here was not to tease but hopefully get feedback on lens requirements. This camera will have custom cluster lens, multiple lenses, one for each Black and white sensor. Lenses can be designed very low cost and super high quality when bandwidth of light is limited by filters. Every lens will have a narrow color filter, up to nine filters for extreme color restoration. From my experience with ultrasound lens design, you must give your lens a sweet range and certain differentiating capabilities. If you go for an overall performance then you may lose the specialness of the lens. So, my question is this: For cinema what are those sweet spots in lens characteristics?
Perhaps we must start a new thread for this discussion.

By the way, SMX-12A2C cameras can work as master slaves using their external triggering feature.

By the way... Wouldn't it be possible to use 4 2/3" cmos sensors to create things like 4K resolution cameras with the equivalent of a 4/3" sensor? That way we would have more resolution and a DOF closer to 35mm.

But anyway, I guess there would be bandwidth problems and some parts of the scene wouldn't be covered due to the borders of the sensors...

Depth of focus will depend on spacing between sensors and not on size of each sensor. A 3D camera assigns depth value to each point on the image. You can achieve multiple depth of focus by blurring pixels which are outside of the selected depth zones. You can even change digital magnifications for different zones. Sky is the limit when you have 3D information and optical flow in high resolution video.
Sensors can be chosen for sensitivity, speed, and cost and not for the size. Lenses will be low cost, small and high quality. This is the beauty of this approach That in such camera every lens is specialized, every sensor is specialized (sensitive to single color) and because of this specialization total cost will be low.
For today's camera a single lens must perform from red to blue color, this is about one octave or 100% bandwidth. Not even the most expensive lenses are perfect. They have many elements and many surfaces creating multiple reflections and loss of contrast.

So this new wave of cameras will be just perfect for our purposes. But anyway, I can't wait to have my 12A2C here!

Last night I downloaded a demo version of StreamPix 3 and I have to say i'm very impressed!

This application does just about everything we need. I can't think of anything its missing. (well, within reason...) I do have some feature requests but right now i'm just looking forward to SMX-12A2C support.

This is going to be a great solution for this camera, especially with CineForm codec support.

Jose A. Garcia, when are you expecting the camera?

Probably on Monday or Tuesday... It's already in Spain.

I'm a little confused about the functionality of this camera out-of-the-box. Some quick questions:

(1) For $2500 we get a camera with a gigabit ethernet port and an API, anything else? What type of video capture software comes with it? (and what platform does it run on?)
(3) Can I shoot live video with this camera and a laptop with the supplied software?
(4) What frame rates do you support? The Sumix website lists only non-standard frame rates.
(5) What is your raw pipeline? I see what looks like lack of LP filtering in the demo videos on the Sumix website (maybe a good thing): point resampling shows an artifact pattern.
(5) What codec do you compress to? What are the disk bandwidth requirements?

Thanks. This looks like a pretty good camera.

Hi all,

Marie Guillaume, a member of this forum has offered me an old Angenieux 12-120mm C-Mount zoom with an optical viewfinder. It looks used but in good condition. I just asked her if it had any problem (fungus, lubrication, marks..).

She asked me to make an offer but I don't know how much would be a fair price for both of us.

So what do you think?

about 400 Euro, mint condition , a master piece of art

It'll be here tomorrow!! DHL just called me to say my Sumix will be here tomorrow morning. I'll still have to wait for the Power Injector, because it doesn't come along with the camera due to a little mistake.

Anyway I'll attach the lens so I can take a few photos of the camera itself. In a few days you'll see the first videos.

Hi all,

It's here. Now I have to wait another day till the PoE Injector arrives, but that means I can post photos and tell you about the size and general external aspects of the camera.

The camera itself is quite small. A little smaller than the Computar zoom and I think the Angenieux lens will be even bigger.

For those of you who, like me, want this camera to be part of a whole setup of mattebox, followfocus and miniPC on a rod support, I have to say it comes with a small standard screw tripod mount that can be easily attached to the cam.

The camera looks and feels rock solid and weights quite a bit for its size. It actually looks more solid than the photo at sumix.com.

Well, there's little more I can say without actually testing it, but that'll have to wait untill tomorrow. I'm attaching a few pics so you can take a look.

Yeah, this thing is put together very well. It will get a little warm after operating for a while, sometimes I worry it will overheat so I don't want to keep it on for too long. But that has never happened, the temperature is stable and i'm sure in safe levels.

I'm really looking forward to some pictures with your improved filter, and lens.

I have been writing some basic software allowing me to experiment with the API and its functions. However, I have decided to not reinvent the wheel. StreamPix 3 has everything I was going to need so its just a mater of waiting.

I had a short film coming up I was going to use this camera on but it looks like that wont work out.

http://www.cappuccinopc.com/slimpro-sp635.asp
could that be a solution there are also fan less same Footprint
attach a Lcd maybe sensitive at one side such a handheld 5 to 6 finger keyboard device and voila
a dream could be true low power consumption

very nice! how does this camera mount on a tripod? and what's the best way to shoot handheld? (presumably with a long and thin ethernet cable)

Hi all,

It's here. Now I have to wait another day till the PoE Injector arrives, but that means I can post photos and tell you about the size and general external aspects of the camera.

The camera itself is quite small. A little smaller than the Computar zoom and I think the Angenieux lens will be even bigger.

For those of you who, like me, want this camera to be part of a whole setup of mattebox, followfocus and miniPC on a rod support, I have to say it comes with a small standard screw tripod mount that can be easily attached to the cam.

The camera looks and feels rock solid and weights quite a bit for its size. It actually looks more solid than the photo at sumix.com.

Well, there's little more I can say without actually testing it, but that'll have to wait untill tomorrow. I'm attaching a few pics so you can take a look.

Well Ali, if you put a whole system together you don't need a large ethernet cable, but a large power cable.

My idea is to take a rod support and mount everything on it. You can see a very simple black round piece in the last two pics. Well, it has a standard screw tripod mount and it can be easily attached to the camera. With the camera, a mattebox, followfocus, touchscreen 7" lcd and a little minipc (even smaller than the one you just linked, Ronald, but a Core2Duo too) you have a fully independent HD cinema camera. The only problem is power, but you can plug it to the wall if you're indoors, to a car if you're in open outdoors or use this

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3198

if you're on the street and don't want to use a generator.

Now what's the most simple setup? I guess it's just the camera, lens, a small LCD or viewfinder (so cameraman can know exactly what he's doing) a large ethernet cable and your laptop.

Hi all, Ive being following the sumix for a while now - its hard to keep up on the progress exactly...

Im basically waiting for this cam to work practically before I order, Im no code expert so how long before we can plug this thing in a laptop and capture with software?

No time at all...

The cam actually comes with its own software. There're projects to create software specifically for filmmaking purposes and in a few weeks, we'll have a new StreamPix3 version with support for this camera, but if you ask whether it's possible to plug the cam to a laptop and start shooting at 25fps (up to 60fps) FullHD, you can do that already.

http://www.ieiworld.com/en/product_IPC.asp?model=NANO-9453
and please have a look there
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=99632&highlight=portable

http://www.logicsupply.com/products/mp965_dr
http://www.logicsupply.com/products/102tpc
can do 1024 to 768
http://www.logicsupply.com/products/70atpc_hbn
800 x 480 Native (scaling up to 1600 x 1200)
and fan less go to the page and configure it
dual CPu
http://www.logicsupply.com/products/cd_gs_l06
so no noise

and on Linux with
http://jahshaka.org/News/p2_articleid/76
http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3
http://www.cinepaint.org/
http://www.blender.org
http://ardour.org/
http://www.gimp.org/
http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/
and this one has quite all software in the distro
clustering is dead easy as it is open mosix
http://dynebolic.org/

what will be the best file format for edit streampix
pumps to disk?

dreaming
camera head, with a Dual CPU fan less box, 2,5" 160 sata disk
a 12 v power supply a battery belt, a LCD touchscreen
optics with viewfinder a bit old fashioned but best for film making
like your Angenieux 12-120mm zoom a bijoux
some rods, mates, compendium a poor mans silicon 2k
can come true

I'm at Bordeaux not far from you
good night
dreaming

Hi Ronald,

This is my setup from side to side:

- Cinevate Mattebox
- Redrock Micro FollowFocus
- Xenarc Technologies 700TSV 7" Touchscreen LCD
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700tsv.html
- Optics (Computar 12-75mm - Angenieux 12-120mm - 3 Canon FD 35mm lenses 28mm/50mm/100mm with C-Mount adapter)
- Camera
- Forcet miniPC with a Core2Duo 2,40Ghz processor and 4Gb of RAM
http://www.forcet.com/mini_PC_9650M/AO_MP965-DR_mediacenter.asp (Sorry it's in Spanish)
- Optional external battery pack
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3198

Everything for about $7,000. Less than a single SI2K Mini without any accesory, computer or lens.

I'm expecting to have the full operative camera in a few months.

sound great
is you CPU box with a fan?

still not knowing what streampix will give for file formats to edit the stuff
and white balance will it do that

as it is a 1 CCD with Bayer a Cannon with 3 CCD could it do the same trick sometimes used the same price range.

What is with film look DOF exactly going on in this aetup

Right now my test setup is made up of 3 components. I'm using a full size desktop PC with a case that has a handle on the top for transportation, a 7" touch screen LCD, and the camera.

Setup time is about... ~5 min or so, the longest part is waiting for the PC to POST and XP to boot. This kind of setup is not practical for a moving camera unless placed on a platform such as a dolly.

Because a monitor is necessary to focus and configure the camera its really not a good idea to just wonder off with only the camera in your hands. Without the LCD you have no idea what your looking at, if its in focus, and even if you have an optical viewfinder your exposure is only a gamble. VGA cables tend to be big and thick, your also running another cable to the LCD to supply power. The best setup is if the camera, lcd, and computer could be mounted on rods.

Its possible with the mini PC products, its just finding a good balance of PC hardware, power usage, and price.

I'm going to wait for the StreamPix 3 software to support the camera before I start buying computer hardware. I want to know the minimal hardware specs I can get away with. Smaller computers weigh less and have more battery life.

I can't wait to see some of your tests Daniel! My PoE injector arrived today but unfortunately, it came without any cables, so this afternoon I'll go and buy a couple of large Cat6 ethernet cables. It looks like I'm cursed! I'm not going to believe it the first time I get to shoot anything with the Sumix!

Ronald,

Yes, the minipc in my setup has fan.

Don't know about the white balance inside StreamPix. I'm sure they include something, but anyway, StreamPix outputs RAW Cineform AVI so there you have your two answers: the format is AVI and can be edited in any NLE system such as Premiere or Vegas and with RAW data you can do a post white balance if you're not happy with the results.

But anyway I'm sure StreamPix will have WB.

This is not 1 CCD, it's 1 CMOS, which means an image quality closer to film with just one sensor. I don't see the point on using 3 sensors anymore.

And finally, DOF. This CMOS sensor is 2/3" which gives a DOF much closer to cinema than a standard sized sensor (CCD or CMOS) which is normally between 1/3" and 1/4". It always depends on the optics you're using, but if you want to see DOF tests and image quality we can expect from this camera, take a look at any Silicon Imaging 2K test clip and I'm sure you'll be surprised.