I shoot and edit video for my church, and curious if there are others here who do the same.

Right now we're using two Canon XL1's with stock auto lenses, feeding s-video to an ancient Videonics MX-100 switcher. Then it goes into an ATI TV Wonder in a Vista PC running a dual-core AMD X2 4400. Windows Media Encoder 9 hums along -- it'd give smoother quality if we ran two-pass, but so many are waiting for the taped services Sunday morning we go straight thru the encoder (many of our members work for the airlines). Amazingly, this Circuit City bargain PC keeps up without a hiccup.

The main sanctuary is DARK. Lights are waaaaaay up in the rafters and a single strip of 24 cans light the stage haphazardly. It's so far up there, I'm scared to try on a ladder. It's THAT high.

The cameras are at the very back of the building, so we're shooting at full zoom on tight, and wide on B-cam. I've got gain pushed to +12 just to make out faint details, and the iris wide open. Highlights blow out all the time, the pastor's got raccoon eyes and -- gee, aside from the lighting, and a busted 16xAuto that can't stay focused, it's pretty good...could be worse...

Ya'll can see what I'm talking about here:
http://church.newcc.org/sermons/DynamicVideoSermonList.asp

ANybody else here 'shoot the preacher' on Sundays?

Ted,

There's a site and forum dedicated to it and the issues involved - not that the principles don't apply to all kinds of production situations

http://www.churchmedia.net

Heya,

Well, i am really resistant to imag in church. It always feels like it overstates the importance of the minister. But there are key times when its really nice. Up until a few months ago, there was a crusty pc next to the sound board playing powerpoints and if they wanted to switch to any video, it was plugged directly into the projector and switched by cycling the input source on the projector remote. (uggggh!)

I purchased and donated a copy of liveworship and pitched in half an intel imac . It has made amazing changes to the multimedia and flow of the service. While the software is really designed for existing media playback, I plumbed a sony fx1 to the imac via a long fw cable and the slide operator has the option to switch live to the feed, and even key text over the live video from within the liveworship software.

So... a pathetic setup compared to your megachurch, but I thought it was a pretty cool solution for imag on the cheap.

One sunday i spit the output of the whole lot to a darwin live streaming server so some family overseas could watch a baby dedication. It worked like a champ until the congregation arrived, then for some reason there was so much RF interference that the wifi network shut down entirely. Doh! I guess people carry around more pocket electronics than i ever would have imagined. It wasnt a major loss as I still videotaped the event and went into the office and streamed it immediately after it was over.

Thanks for the thread. Good to know there are more church video geeks out there.

Yep. We burn a DVD, and put it on local access. Mostly consumer level hardware, and castoffs donated by a member in the event production business. 32 channel soundboard, 4 channel NTSC switcher, Panasonic mini-dv cameras outputting via 1/8" video jack.

I too am a "church video geek". I'm pretty new to all of this so most of what you all are saying about your equiptment is pretty well flying right over my head.

I use a 3yr old Sony MiniDV camcorder which I edit everything on my personal Toshiba laptop. Our board is I think a 20 channel something or other. I'm trying to record the audio directly to a digital recorder to add to the video to remove alot of background noise.



Lowell

We have one Sony Z1U and someone comes with his FX1; an old consumer Sony is for general wide shots only as it has poor resolution (hopefully we get money for a second Z1 this fall). These three cameras feed into a Datavideo SE-800 switcher, sound coming from the audio board. The output goes to a PC for live streaming in Windows Media format on our website www.atlantanorthchurch.com, to a direct DVD recorder for on the spot DVD creation, and in the future to another PC for post editing. Video is monitored on Sony professional studio monitors.

A second PC runs Easy Worship for Bible text/song lyrics/Powerpoint/DVD presentations; members watch the projector, the speaker and those on the platform can look at the 37 inch LCD at the back of the sanctuary. The sattelite receiver can also be routed into the switcher and the projector/LCD. A third PC running Adobe Audition records multitrack audio via an Alesis firewire audio board but only when we have musical presentations.

Personally I would also welcome a sub-forum for church video related topics. I've been on some other fora but been turned off by the unprofessionalism, slow loading speed due to useless graphics, excessively complicated navigation, etc. There are issues that do make the subject of THIS website, as they are strictly digital video related and would be nice to find answers right here, all in the same place.

Personally I would also welcome a sub-forum for church video related topics.

The reason why I resist such a dedicated sub-forum here is pretty much the same reason that I gave several years ago to some folks who asked for a sub-forum tailored to adult video and sexually explicit content, and that is: other than the subject matter, there really isn't anything inherently different about the production. Shooting a religious service in a sanctuary faces most all of the same production issues as shooting in a theater, a concert hall or other similar venues. That's why we've lumped all of these event production topics into one big forum for Wedding and Event Videography (to which this thread has been now been moved).

As you've already noted, DV Info Net is indeed a safe, protected space in which professionalism always trumps profanity and vulgarity. And as long as I own this site, it'll always be that way.

While I'm not opposed to eventually adding a sub-forum within our Event Videography section dealing specifically with low lighting levels in sanctuary spaces (that is, should the forum traffic ever warrant it), the word "church" most likely would not be in the title, since it would seem by definition to exclude those folks facing these exact same issues, but instead are shooting video in a temple or a mosque or some other spiritual space; and such exclusions do not at all rest easy with me.

For the moment, I'm satisfied that our Event Videography forum is perfectly suited for these particular types of production issues and I warmly welcome such discussions here, especially those matters that are unique to services of *all* faiths, whether Islamic, Hindu, Jewish, etc., as long as they're *technically* related.

Hope this helps,

The reason why I resist such a dedicated sub-forum here is pretty much the same reason that I gave several years ago to some folks who asked for a sub-forum tailored to adult video and sexually explicit content, and that is: other than the subject matter, there really isn't anything inherently different about the production.
Hope this helps,

That's a very well thoughout reason. I've done church video, infact this is how we started, and 'technically' you could be talking about the lighting, shot selection, angles, without even mentioning church and come to the same conclusions. But if you are talking about the business side of church video, that's an animal all to its own, at least in my experience. Kudos Chris, that made a lot of sense.


Although, I would not mind having a sub forum for us Elvis fans. But that's another story.

chur video is usualy a perminant install. so thats a pretty difrent aproach. allso a big issue for church vidoe is verry fast turnaround. and third it sadly often has to be as simple as posible because of volinteers that have verry limited knowledge.

Good to meet some fellow church media people. I operate the media department at our church as well..... using Media Shout, PC, video projector and hoping to get a digital recorder to run camera into.

Best,
Lisa

I do videos for my church. Mostly promo videos for different ministries and less and less lately as I have been swamped with weddings.

same here I have been so bussy lately that i havnt been able to do hardly anything. but im going to work on a comercial soon.

Hi,

I finished a commercial recently and a video for Teddies for Tots organization. I have a client asking me to do a wedding but it's been awhile since I did weddings and not my favorite projects to work on.

I prefer commercials ad trying to put a marketing plan together to find some business.

I've been working on missions trips and church videos, etc. but like I mentioned, I'm working on trying to find ways to market to get the video business going full time. My uncle is in another state and he is always busy with wedding still photography and videos.

I really need to get some video lights. I've been reading how some people have been making their own kits from worklights. I need to use some lights for a couple of projects and then I'll put out the money to buy a kit and some wireless lapel mics. Someone gave me a lapel mic that was in storage but it's missing a part.

Anyway, got to run and that's my 2 cents for now I guess.

Till Later,
Lisa

I'm also involved with church videos and the like, though I wouldn't say it's all I do. I was recently hired by a church to do a documentary for them, and also asked me to do a short set of children's videos 'Fruity Fables' for their family Sundays. Needless to say they are keeping me busy.

Below is a link to a youtube account I set up to post some of the work I'm doing for them. You can see the fruit video and some clips from the doc too.

http://www.youtube.com/elknib

Just curious...how many of you that are involved in your churches media department have thought of using robotic video cameras?

Interesting thread. I also do all the video and audio for my church. We recently started video all the teachings which through my Panasonic DVC-30 via firewire, capture directly into my laptop (Asus C2D 2gig, 1 gig ram) using Avid (now Pinnacle again) Liquid 7.2. Love not having to run tape! After I'm home I add the begining and ending that the local cable access wants and burn to DVD. We have an hour slot every Sunday evening so at times I have to edit down or add in to get the hour. Lighting is an issue, we have a low ceiling and all fluorescents, but I have 3 PAR64's that cover the front of the sanctuary. White Balance can be fun when the one teaching walks out of the floods into the fluorescents. Fortunately the 30 I can run all manual which I normally do. A few months ago I installed an audio distribution amp so I can take a direct feed from the mixer into the camera via XLR and use the other channel with an Azden shotgun to get the audience sounds.

We have talked about going to multiple cameras, but I hate to have to revert to composite analog video and then redigitizing it...There are some video mixers out there that will live mix 1394 firewire but the distance for 1394 is real short for what I would need, so that is still up in the air.

As far as robotic, there is a neat "right arm" out there that would be great to mount and throw a camera on it but it is fairly costly too.

We have a single P4 Dell that we use to show the worship songs on through Power Point (Yes I know, it's so 90's!) We also use it to record the audio from the mixer for the teachings so we easily edit and burn to CD. I use NERO's WAV editor for the recording.

Jeff

We are using panasonic robotic heads at our church.
They are not bad. Takes quite a bit of practice to do any
quality moves, and following a person that moves around on stage
a lot is near impossible to do with any consistency.
They would be a great addition to at least 1 main camera with
a real live operator. There are very nice robotic cam systems out there,
that can handle most any kind of moves, but for most churches they
are a little pricey.

Matt Gore

We have talked about going to multiple cameras, but I hate to have to revert to composite analog video and then redigitizing it...There are some video mixers out there that will live mix 1394 firewire but the distance for 1394 is real short for what I would need, so that is still up in the air.
You don't have to "revert to composite" unless you buy a toy video switcher. For a couple thousand dollars you can buy a Datavideo SE-800 that handles component beautifully!

We recently bought and are using a Vaddio system with switcher and remote control for three cameras. It does a good job covering services, but like an earlier poster said, it takes a lot of practice to do a good job. We use two people, one as a director to do the switching and one to run the cameras. We get the sound from the sound board and we record to DVD for quick turnaround and we record to computer as a backup and to edit later if we want.

Send me email if you want to know more.

Just ran across this thread...
We are running a Vaddio system at my church as well.
Running a 4 camera setup with Sony cameras.
Installed it about 6mo ago and works like a champ.
Do some research and ask around in looking to install a new one, because you can mix and match the PTZ cameras. Some of them "prefer" to be mounted right side up. Some of them can operate inverted better than others.

Well, most of them can operate inverted... The one thing that we noticed with the Sony cameras is that we were getting frame drops out of the inverted cameras about 3-5/min.
FLipped them over, and all is well with the world.

Using a Kramer scalar to pipe other video sources into the ProductionView FX console.

Dumping out directly to a distribution hub, to pipe feeds to the DVD recorders and CC tvs around the facility.

This thread started out as a Wedding thread. I have seen our setup in a full portable mode before, for remote capture (5 camera setup) at a wedding. some were tripod mounted in good locations that a person would have been "in the way" and strategically decorated/camoflaged. Others were placed in places were you normally couldnt get a camera (in the overhead arch, looking down on the ceremony). Pretty slick end product there to.

I'm never in churches without a good reason, like documenting a wedding ceremony. I have, however, designed both video and audio systems for churches. No two are alike. With regard to video the biggest issue is lighting the interior of the sanctuary in a way that benefits video and members of the congregation.

Switching architectural lighting from incandescent to quartz, where appropriate, has been the single most effective method of enhancing the worship experience for both congregation and video producers. Because of the added fire hazard posed by the significantly higher temperatures produced by quartz halogen fixtures, particularly in older structures, I exercise extreme caution with my recommendations.

The low operating cost of high kelvin temperature fluorescent lighting and LED lighting is extremely attractive to me because of the long term benefits. The technology is still in its infancy. I look forward towards product improvements that will allow both of these technologies to replace incandescent lighting.

I agree with you about being extremely careful with the lighting and the ambient temps that quartz can create.

You are also correct about the infancy stage of the higher kelvin flourescents as well.
Dont know how much you have played around with the flourescent fixtures, but we accidentally stumbled on one anomaly...
We actually discovered it in a service while shooting some burst mode sequences with a DSLR and had a shutter speed of 1/250th... when going back through the photos, we noticed a color shift and white balance shift in the photos.... did some digging and sure enough, you encounter and will notice the shift once the shutter speed exceeds 1/50th sec.

We just got in some HO LED banks a couple of weeks ago and are in prep mode to get them installed for some fills and color washes. Also fixing to have some new wiring added so that we can total isolate the lighting power from the A/V power.

Fluorescent lighting has always had a frequency modulation. I was once told it was primarily due to the manner in which the ballasts, those noisy black boxes inside the lighting fixture that generate the voltage to keep the gas inside the tubes glowing. It would take a better understand of physics than I have to explain the behavior properly. Doesn't surprise me a high shutter speed would make the issue much more apparent.

Since this is the Church AV peeps thread, I thought I would post my most recent production for my church for their annual conference. The attendees & conference organizer loved the promo piece so much they put it as bookends for the two day conference instead of just the opener. The other two pieces I'll post for the sake of completeness, but they were just 2-cam interviews.

This production took 4 days of filming, ~50-60hrs of post production and about 40hrs of pre-production to get the shoot schedule & script worked out. A crazy amount of work for 2min of screen time (+the two 40min interviews).
watch here

This production took 4 days of filming, ~50-60hrs of post production and about 40hrs of pre-production to get the shoot schedule & script worked out. A crazy amount of work for 2min of screen time (+the two 40min interviews).

Welcome to the world of non-event video production.

People freak out when they see the bill for real production work, but you've just pointed out why it's so expensive.

Let's just pretend you were billing at $100/hr for shooting and editing and half that for pre-production. You'd be looking at $7,000 just for the editing and pre-pro. I really wish people understood what goes into making a video.

I should also say that fortunately, my church realized the work necessary to create this production, so it was not a pro-bono, though it was reduced roughly by 40% and would I bill it out to other groups / companies, my prices would probably fall a thousand or so short of your estimate, but still pretty close.