I personally have found many reasons to hate Adobe Media Encoder.

The downres quality is sub-par. I use Nero to downres, and it comes out better than anything I managed in AME, and trust me, I've tried.

After Effects does a wonderful downres, with a sharpening effect applied, but it takes time. As I stated, Nero works for me. Others use VirtualDub or another free third party software. There are many threads here discussing the best ways to go from Cineform in Premiere to SD DVD. Use the search function to take a look at them. Adobe Media Encoder is, sadly, behind the curve in terms of accomplishing this, but there is free/cheap software that does an outstanding, beautiful job. Just use the Export->Movie function to export a Cineform AVI as your master copy, and produce your DVD from there. That seems the most popular workflow.

Carl

David, are there any issues with CF (or fixes) you know of yet with the PP CS3 3.1.1 update?

Just wondering.

I imported footage into a Cineform project with PPro CS3 3.1.1. It captured fine, I could scroll and drag the slider through the footage fine, but when I wanted to play in the source window or from the timeline at normal speed, the image became heavily distorted with lines (it looked like an old broken tube TV) I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong and if there's a certain setting.

Also...I want to take full advantage of cineform, is there a basic guide or thread that exists that shows what the best setting to use for HDV (quality, etc...). Hard drive space is not a concern, whatever the best would be.

I'm running a Core 2 Duo 2.0ghz, 4 gigs ram, winxp pro 64bit, 7200rpm drives and I shoot with a Canon xha1 often at 24F

Thanks!

Jim

Hi Jim,

It may be trying to use a version of our codec that is incorrectly performing the half-res decode. Try re-installing your CineForm software.

Have you opened a support ticket?
If not, and re-installation doesn't work, please do so and include a screenshot of the error you're seeing, so we can track it down further.

As for settings, "High" quality is sufficient for HDV sources. It's definitely a case of diminishing returns with Film Scan 1 and Film Scan 2 when starting with an HDV source. Your user guide should provide you with the settings info to properly handle the 24F mode of the camera when capturing in HD Link and CineForm projects in Premiere.

Sounds like another "force YUV" prob. Did you happen to open an old project with "force YUV" turned off? That happens to us regularly, especially after bringing in an older project to use some of the elements from it.

As soon as I updated to CS3.1.1, PPro started locking up and crashing in the Cineform project I was in the middle of. I also got error messages regarding some problem with (I think this is right) "Photoshop Server.exe" refusing to close- both when loading the project, and when turning the system off.
For lack of anything better to do, I uninstalled Aspect HD (the latest version), rebooted and reinstalled it, and all seems well so far. We shall see.
I am a born sucker for updates, but it is not always a happy experience.

Working fine here, with AspectHD 5.1 projects.

...I am a born sucker for updates, but it is not always a happy experience.

Yeah, I know the feeling Robert! I'm one too...

Graham, I'm glad you've seen no glitches so far. I'm getting paranoid on updates, so good news is welcome!

Unfortunately, like Robert, I'm a sucker for them and can't wait to see if there are major issues. Thankfully, so far, so good for us.

I am in the middle of an Aspect HD project and was having no problems until the PPro 3.1.1 upgrade. Now I am getting PPro freeze ups when rendering timeline previews (pan n' scan of stills, color corrected clips, even crossfades on titling). I will also get random freeze ups when attempting to play timeline previews.
After freezing up, it requires a system reboot to get PPro up and running again. It's at a point where the software is almost unusable to get any work done.
Maybe I'll have to just reinstall PPro 3.0. I don't see a way to roll back the 3.1.1 upgrade. Any other ideas would be appreciated and I would be interested to know if anyone else is having any problems with PP 3.1.1 + Aspect HD 5.2.1.
Thanks
Win XP Pro, Intel Quad, 4 Gig RAM, Quadro fx 1500 card with latest drivers,
Sys Drive: SATA, Media Drive: RAID 0, Export Drive: SATA

can anyone point me to a workflow thread on using after effects cs3 for downres? wanting to find anyone's workflow using cineform, cs3, and ae to get that perfect quality sd dvd :)

encore stinks on ice

It help to know if you trying one of the follow:

1) Downresing from 50i/60i to interlaced SD.
2) Downresing from 50i/60i to progressive SD.
3) Downresing from 24/25/30p to progressive SD.

Workflow is different for each.

60i to progressive sd-dvd. just want to know how to fit ae in this equation.

thanks

For that I think HDLink would be higher quality. Import you HD 60i AVI master, and select deinterlace and resize to NTSC 16x9, then convert.

Hi folks,

1. Is it possible to convert an existing APP 2.0 Project into a Cineform Project maintaing TC Information and tape information?

AND 2.
If you have captured with HDVSplit and edited in APP 2.0 with a cineform roject - is it somehow possible to tell the single clips which tape and TC it was - to be able to recapture later?

Oh god - how simple was it with DV!

thx
Eric

Well for #1, you can create a new Cineform project, then import your non-cineform project file into it. Once imported just select the old timeline. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to accomplish.

I've never seen a way in Premiere of changing the propject template mid-project (so to speak). However, try this...

Start a new project with the template you want and import the original one into it. Never tried this myself and can't take credit for the idea. I simply remember reading it as a solution to this type of problem elsewhere once before. Hope it works.

I've done this many times, personally I wish adobe would just let you change project settings like they used to, but this is a suitable work around. I used it when conforming my movie from the DV proxies to 4k originals. Worked perfectly without a hitch.

I've done this many times, personally I wish adobe would just let you change project settings like they used to, but this is a suitable work around. I used it when conforming my movie from the DV proxies to 4k originals. Worked perfectly without a hitch.

John, can you expand on that just a bit? Sounds interesting! How do you edit with DV proxies at the size they are and then switch to 4K originals?

Maybe it's simpler than it sounds, but it could save us some worktime on the 1920 material we're doing. DV stuff is fast to edit, full HD is not...

Without turning this into a Premiere thread, you create a 4k project, import the DV edit, offline the clips, relink them to the 4k clips that have the exact same TC and frame count.

Only really works if you have separate audio tracks from the clips.

I did this when we created a Cineform 1920x1080 file that we use as our master for Blu Ray and HD-DVD which I'm currently stumbling through right now.

The Cineform copy of our movie looks awesome.

If you want to know more about it... www.postcardsfromthefuture.net

How to do it?

How to manage the project and which export settings in CS3, XP SP2?

I have M-Audio FW 410 firewire audio interface, with 8 outputs, DVD authoring with Encore.

Thanks in advance!

(...perhaps its a quest for Premiere´s forum?)

Why does Cineform show the image correct in still, but when in 'motion' (play) it shows it much lighter? Its not a real problem, just courious

I'm having problems with the latest version of Prospect 2k and AE 8.01.

Just wanted to have confirmation that people have this combination up and running.


Thanks!

/Jocke

Yes, people do, and we at CineForm now test primarily with CS3 components. Please submit a trouble ticket at www.cineform.com/support

Ok, sounds promising.

I reformated and did a fresh install with just AE and the latest version och Prospect 2K and still it doesn't work.

But I've filed a support request yesterday, just hope to get some feedback soon.


Thanks!


/Jocke

Hi dvinfo comunity. I would like to have some tips on video monitoring for my worksation, that´s what i have.

WINXP pro sp2
Quad core 2.4
Asus P5B premium
3Gb ram
Intensity Pro
ATI sapphire X1950pro 512mb (02 DVI out and 01 S-video)
Hard disk sata02 01 system / 01 render / 01 audio / 03 or 04 raid0 for media
Monitor LG 22´ widescreen LCD 1650x1050
Next buy : cineform ProspectHD

I don´t have the system working right now, just waitting to buy the case and 2nd monitor..
My question is. What is the best way to monitor? I know that with cineform on premiere i can´t monitor over intensity pro. What about my s-video out on the ATI sapphire?could i connect a 14´CRT tv (i don´t have the money for a broadcast monitor)? or it´s better to use my second DVI-out for a FULLHD monitor (CRT or LCD)? Can i do both?.
Here in Brasil everything we do in HD for now will be downsample to SD so i need to have an interlaced CRT TV to view the result before go to DVD or tape(mini-dv,beta, dvcam).
Any tips? options? questions?

I'm having the strangest situation with Adobe Ultra CS3 (their chromakeyer) and Cineform.

I have a clip that was originally captured uncompressed (from an HV20 with a Blackmagic Intensity). I deinterlaced it and saved it in cineform with VirtualDub.

I brought the clip into Ultra, did my chromakeying magic, and then output the result in cineform. The problem? The output is somewhat soft - it's not as sharp as the input clip and has a bit of a reddish tinge.

Here's where it gets stranger. I took my clip and used VirtualDub to reconvert it back to uncompresed. I brought this uncompressed version back into Ultra. I output the result in cineform using the exact same keying settings and guess what? The output is sharp as a tack!

I'm baffled. Can anyone think of a reason why the cineform version of the input creates the softer output file while the uncompressed one is sharp?

- Rick

Rick, what were your output setting sin Ultra? My guess is the answer lies there.

Rick
Im PHD user
I also noticed a quality change in the last couple of versions. But in my case is even more soft when I tray to convert the final exported cineform avi file to another format using any other third party software. Before it use to be very sharp. Now even my primary convertion format software (TMPGENC) crash with the CF exported files. That is an issue that I already disscused in this forum.

Paul -

I tried changing the field order in the output settings to the three different settings. All got the same results.

I don't think it's the output, though - I'm pretty sure it's the input. You can see the difference in the preview window before the clip is even output. The cineform clip is soft and the uncompressed clip is sharp.

I tried compressing the clip with two other codecs - Blackmagic MJPEG and Microsoft Video 1 (there's a relic for ya!) - and loaded each of them. Each of them was sharp (excepting artifacts, of course).

I tried both interlaced and progressive versions of the cineform clip - same results. I tried creating the cineform clip with VirtualDub and another with Premiere - same results.

The problem seems to boil down to the interaction between cineform and Ultra. It may be time to submit a ticket on this one.

- Rick

My problem:
On a particular project, I need to re-render everything everytime I re-open project even after I have saved and closed project.

I also experience SERIOUS ERROR crashes or simply PP3 freezes while trying to render whole timeline, I need to render in chunks.

The project file is a single timeline 2:45 minutes long with only the clip on timeline in project; it's CFHD low res clips (not corrupted) and there's quite a lot of CF cross-fades in timeline (it's a trailer) with about 5-6 clip color corrected that need to be rendered.

My specs are:
PP3 + AspectHD v5.2 build 105
dualmonitors with Ultramon 2.6
AMD ATHLON x2 4600+
4 GB SDRAM2 733 Mghz (dual channels)
MATROX APVe
ASUS SLI-DELUXE
Sound Blaster X-FI

I currently have a ticket open with CF, but I get a small hint of help every 7 days or so. I need to fix this quickly.

I seen this before>

The workarounds for me are the following:

1 Select all the material in the timeline and copy it to a new fresh timeline. Then you notice that red line goes back to the green line.
I think that this is more a PPcs3 issue.

2 And usually if Im going to render a lot of footage in the timeline I try to save/close and open again Ppro. Then rendering don't crash.

At least this works for me.

Is SpeedGrade HD supporting real time play of cineform raw files from a Si 2K camera?
How can I export a cineform premiere pro project to Speed Grade HD?

I haven't used the new Speedgrade with CineForm integrated yet, just haven't had time to try it out. Iridas is sharing a both with CineForm at this year's NAB, so I plan to get my training from the best. So currently your questions might be best directed toward Iridas.

The only way to get a Cineform RAW project into Speedgrade is to use an EDL. Any export from Premiere or AE will lose the RAW aspect, which is currently very important since Cineform RAW can playback 2K in realtime in Speedgrade on a high end system. On the otherhand, I have yet to see the 422 and 444 varients of Cineform playback in realtime in HD or 2K. I will try to keep you updated as I continue to test it.

After I installed Aspect HD v5.2 build 106 I found that PPCS3 ddidn’t recognize my SD cameras. HDV works okay. Uninstalled Aspect HD and PPCS3 Capture recognized MiniDV cameras and works as usual. Has anybody else encountered this?

We don't change the SD features. I can't see how that would happen.

I have had something similar happen on my system as well. I haven't confirmed that is was caused by Cineform, but that is where most of the evidence is pointing. I have a number of other Cineform issues on that one system. AE gives me multiple CF import popups, and errors everytime it loses focus, renders never acknowledge completion, (sitting at 100% even though I can use the file) FLV exports fail, etc. I am planning to reimage the system this week, and will check the issue with a reinstall of the same software. (CS3 and Prospect)

Mike & Carlos, delete the AJACaptureFilter.ax from C:\Program Files\CineForm\Prospect??. That AJA component is causing many people issues, it not supposed to be registered, yet it is on many PCs.

Right on, David. That solved the problem. Thanks.

Thanks...

I'm looking forward to any new information you'll share in the future

BTW...

Mike, your site has been very useful for me. Keep going with good work..

Thanks again

Maybe this is a better question for the Premiere section, but since I'm here, and David knows things like this, I'll ask:

Does anyone know what the "individual frame" thumbnails in PP3 in the "timeline window" actually represent? When you are totally zoomed in, do they have actually have anything to do with the GOP's or anything relevant? Does the "frame" preview thumbnail actually start at the beginning of a GOP maybe?

Come on guru's, let's hear some collective wisdom on this!

The thumbnails in Premiere are the actual frame, not the begining of the GOP.

The thumbnails in Premiere are the actual frame, not the begining of the GOP.

That used to be true in older versions of Premiere, but it isn't any more. The PP CS3 version no longer represents each frame with a thumbnail. Zoom into a timeline and you'll see what I mean.

So what exactly DOES it represent? At it's largest timeline size, it's 31 frames wide, at the smallest is 2 frames. Not only that, the thumbnail edges don't even line up with the frame marks, even at 2 frames!

Seems to be an arbitrary way of zooming the thumbnails, with no real usefulness other than a general view of where you're at. Too bad. I liked it MUCH better in years past...

Tried these workarounds myself and have had no luck. Always have to re-render everytime I open my current project. Anyone got any more info on this?

HERE'S INCLUDED MY WHOLE TICKET (SO FAR) WITH CINEFORM:

Ticket Description
Problem Type: Crash or Bug
OS: XP Professional
CPU: AMD Athlon 64
CPU Speed: 2.5GHz - 3GHz
CPU Configuration: Single Dual-Core
Main Memory: DDR2 SDRAM
Memory Amount: >=4GB
Video Drive: Multiple video drives in RAID configuration
System Usage: General Usage also (Email, Internet, Office, etc.)
Camera/Deck Model #: Sony HVR-Z1
Motherboard Manufacturer: ASUS
Motherboard Model #: SLI-DELUXE
Graphics Card Model #: MATROX APVe
Product Name: AspectHD
Version #: v5.2 (last build 106)
Serial Number: AHD50-3C9338EAF1
NLE Version: Premiere Pro CS3
Description of Problem: I'm currently having a bug on a projet that I'm trying to edit.

My timeline won't play when I hit SPACEBAR or ENTER. Or if it plays, it will only do so for few seconds before freezing image and maybe continue playing audio track. Sometimes it will play audio very well, but you'll only see a black screen in the video preview.

The project file is very light (5,3KB below the suggested maximum project size of 32KB by David Newman). My whole computer is maximised for memory optimisation as best as it could be (/3GB + /PAE switch enabled and the whole shebang...)

Precise Steps to Reproduce:
I actually don't even get an error message like (serious error OR low system memory). I always monitor my memory usage with Windows Task Manager and it rarely go above 1,000,000 K for VM Size and plays between 200,000 K and 300,000 K for Mem Usage. (I've seen my PP3 go in other projects to around 2GB of either Mem Usage and VM Size...so that's not the bug...)

My specs are:
Windows XP Pro all updated
Cineform AspectHD v5.1 last patch updated
AMD64 Athlon x2 4600+
4 GB of RAM 733mghz in dual channel
MATROX APVe
Sound Blaster X-FI

PP3 is set to make render optimized for memory.
I run it dual monitors with Ultramon 2.6.23.0

The main timeline is very light with as low as 2 video tracks with no fancy effects with around 7-8 audio tracks, with currently a trailer edit of 40 seconds. There is about 15-20 others timeline in the project of about 15 minutes each to list my footage so I can pick from them to edit.

Overall a normal project, but one that doesn't allow me playback...

2/12/2008 7:24 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair IN ADDITION TO LAST POST:

I've noticed that when I freshly booted my computer and just openned my PP3, I'm able to playback some clips. Until 2-3 playback, when it's starts to bug. If I close my PP3 when its strats to freezes and reload it doesn't work, I'll need to reboot computer to see a change...

But, the bug doesn't apply to everything;

- some clips I can't play in preview window and/or timeline
(usually longer clips)
- other (usually smaller lenght clips) can playback
- sound only usually playback well, but I sometimes get an audio gap
for a couple of frames just after hiting play button, then all goes well
- I've rendered a selection which played well before getting rendered,
and now it doesn't play, it shows an X once rendered (shouldn't it
have done the reverse ??? not play/render/then play)


2/1/2008 11:50 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

I've swaped for Creative ASIO, but nothing is changed. I still have the spame problem regarding playback of timeline and even of preview window with single clip...

unchecking the stop watch doesn't change anything for clips that freeze while attempting to playback; regarding clip that ask for render but shouldn't I haven't encountered any since I've posted... ?!?

I've tried the stopwatch trick on clip that freeze in the timeline, but this doesn't change anything either.

The memory is quite decent, no peak whatsoever and project size is very small...

What next?

1/24/2008 4:41 PM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

Defenitely use Creative ASIO. That should work the best (of course you'll know which one works best considering you're the one sitting in front of your computer).

The files that say they need rendering but shouldn't: Click on one of them in the timeline then look in the Time Remapping section of the Effect Controls window. Uncheck the stopwatch that enables keyframes and that should eliminate the red bar. This is something Adobe is looking into for us and they recommend doing that as a workaround.

1/18/2008 7:19 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

I've SHIFT-started until the project choice window; it doesn't seems to have done anything and I don't feel any difference or reset anything...

I've noticed in my Preferences menu, that in my Audio Hardware and Audio Output Mapping, I've got 3 choices I could make:
- PP window sound
- ASIO Digidesign Driver
- Creative ASIO

Could the mixer setting impact this ? I doubt it, since it's not just the sound that doesn't play, but the whole clip...

1/11/2008 12:41 PM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

Well the audio looks normal. This might be a longshot, but try holding down the shift key when you launch premiere. This will reset its preferences file to the defaults. Maybe that will help.
1/10/2008 6:38 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair check print screen JPEG attached
audio hardware settings.JPG

1/9/2008 12:08 PM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

What are the Audio Hardware preferences set to in Premiere's Prefs menu?

1/3/2008 8:19 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

Here's the screenshot with PP3 closed.

I realy doubt that any of my running process is causing problems (it has been went over and over in previous ticket and I've trimmed them to the essential in view of memory usage).

Memory playback buffer is at max in both my Preview window and Playback window in my PP3.

screenshot.jpg

1/2/2008 3:50 PM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

Go to the CineForm playback settings and adjust the memory buffer. Does that help?

Also how many windows processes and services do you have running simultaneously? Can you send me a screen shot of the Task Manager open to the Processes tab?

12/27/2007 8:13 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

I've tried copy/pasting a couple of file and they play well, but then I've checked the rest of my project (after defragmenting registry, cleaning it, scanning for spyware and error on computer, erasing previews files and so on,...) and timelines that don't have multiple layer of audio play well (they didn't used to), sometimes a clip shows red as needing render for no reason and don't play when rendered (even if it plays in WMP).

But, with that clean up, the bug only extend to my timelines which have multiple audio track well filled (like around 8-9).

Any ideas about this ?

12/27/2007 7:37 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

Ultramon is not the problem, I've tested without and it changes nada.

I've tested my drives with HD-Tach and the connectivity/speed result seems quite normal. (resulting files attached)

I'll do the copy files test and repost later today.
Maxtor_6V160E0_VA111630 #.hdc
NVIDIA_STRIPE_465_77G_ #.hdc
NVIDIA_STRIPE_894_27G_ #.hdc

12/26/2007 11:56 AM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

REgarding the Ultramon app. Yes that could definitely be the cause. If it's continually running in the background monitoring the system, that would most certainly interfere with playback of your timeline.

Try disabling it to see if that helps.

When I mentioned copying your files, I just meant a few video clips. Not the whole project. I doubt that your project file is corrupt. This just sounds like something is interupting playback.

12/23/2007 8:03 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

Could Ultramon be causing any problem for playback? Do you run something alike on your computer ?

I've noticed that, strangely, when I hit the L key, several time I manage to get my computer to play smoothly in a like 3-4x time speed with no glitch, but when I try to slow it down with the P key, it bugs and starts doing as it does playing with SPACEBAR or ENTER...

ENTER seems to have better result then SPACEBAR, undow both sucks....

12/23/2007 7:03 AM PDT Provided Info Frederic Leclair

My hard drives config is like this:

160 GB for C:
2x250 GB in RAID 0 Y:
3x320 GB in RAID 0 Z:
EXTERNAL HD of 80 GB (USB) E:

My footage is 70% to 75% on my Z and the rest on my Y, the project file with PP folders for project are on Y also.

When I first digitized my footage, I had connectivity trouble with RAID 0 configuration with the HDs brand (Western Digital) I had installed with my specific motherboard, but is has been fixed by installing Seagate's.

I keep my drive very well defragmented (below 1%) withg OoODefrag which defrags by clusters. I'm currently doing it as I write this, the fragmentation had gone up to 11% for my C and 6-7% for my Y... I'll let you know if this change anything.

About copying files and running for playback...do you mean in the same project file or into a new one? Could our project files be corrupted or something?

Let me know.

Merry Chrismass.

12/20/2007 4:50 PM PDT Requested Info Jake Segraves

I'm having a similar problem on a project I'm working on. I narrowed it down to the external usb harddrive I was using.

I see that you have a RAID configuration. How's the framentation on it? Can you check to see if it needs to be degragmented.

try copying some files to the system drive and play them back there. this could help determine if it's the raid.

All -

I figured out the answer to this...

While playing around with Media Player Classic, I found an item under the menu Play / Filters / Cineform HD Decoder-2. This gave me a Properties dialog that I'd never seen before. It had a Resolution tab that gave me a choice of Full, Half or Quarter and had a button Set as Default. It was currently on Half, so I set it to Full and clicked Set as Default.

That did the trick! My video was now as sharp!

Cineform support says that you can do the same thing by clicking the Start button and going All Programs / Cineform / Tools / Desktop Playback - Quality.

I'm a little mystified as to why this dialog box is so well hidden... :)

I'm also a little mystified as to why this happened. How do programs know they are getting the full resolution of the video from Cineform? Ultra obviously couldn't tell, but Premiere and After Effects seem to know to get the full resolution even when this setting is set to half. Anyone know the answer to this?

- Rick

I'm also a little mystified as to why this happened. How do programs know they are getting the full resolution of the video from Cineform? Ultra obviously couldn't tell, but Premiere and After Effects seem to know to get the full resolution even when this setting is set to half. Anyone know the answer to this?

- Rick

Premiere and AE use CineForm components to allow us to control decoding resolution independently to the desktop playback setting (which defaults to full quality.) We should make sure Ultra does the same.

David -

Ah, I understand.

While you're working with the Ultra people, perhaps you could find out why the Cineform DirectShow interface doesn't work when you output from Ultra. You can select the 'Cineform HD Encoder' or 'Cineform HD Encoder-2' codecs in the Output panel, but when you hit the Save Output button it doesn't do anything.

The Video for Windows 'Cineform HD Codec V3.4.3' codec works, but I'd rather use the DirectShow encoders! :)

- Rick

The DirectShow encoders are faster (more threading), yet there will not no quality difference as Ultra is strictly RGB24, the pixel format of Video for Windows. Build 155 will be posted sometime tommorrow fixes the Decoder issue with Ultra, and I have a question with Adobe regarding the DShow encoders.