I shot a wedding for a couple in early June of this year. They still have a balance due to me now. My policy is that the balance is due on the wedding day. I allowed some leway(sp?) around this, and delievered the finished DVD's to the couple in the middle of June. I have sent notices to them that the balance of payment is due every couple of weeks, and the woman is typically very unresposive with replies like "i will get you your money as soon as I can". Obvisously, in retrospect, I shouldnt have given the finished DVD's without the complete payment, so lesson learned there. Question is, what is the best way to go about getting my balance due? Collections agency perhaps? Also, they did sign a contract that clearly states that balance was due on the wedding day. any help would be appreciated.

Attorney. Have him/her write a letter on intimidating letterhead.

Well Travis you blew this one. You blew it by delivering them their wedding video. I had 2 clients this year that were to pay up front. One family I knew really well and the other one was strictly a client. The client job was in June and they haven't paid me yet and I have their videos sitting here. The next family I job I did I gave them everything knowing they'd mail the remaining balance. I have a feeling the clients will be the ones to pay and want their stuff and the family clients will not pay. I lost that money by giving them everything ahead of time. Will I do another job for them? Yeah with the balance from the last job added on top as a fine. Keep trying but you pretty much lost this one. Sorry for sounding a lil on the negative side, but that's the reality. Hope it all works out.

Monday

This is one reason i no longer work with open accounts after the wedding. 85% of the time, they blow their cash on the honeymoon, 10% of the time, their photographer's albums have blown their budgets, and the last 5 are incident excuses.

In any case, I wont hit record until the money is in my hand... they will see me standing around doing nothing until payment is provided... in the 58 weddings I did in the last year, only one client paid me at the end of the reception, but they were referrals and they were relying on cash gifts from their clients to pay me. The others all pay 21 days before the wedding.

Attorney. Have him/her write a letter on intimidating letterhead.


This would be my vote. And then have that same attorney look over your contract to make sure you are covered for next time. The other thing the attorney can do is offer, legally, a payment plan for the client, incase they are truley having money problems, and not just trying to rip you off.

Another option is to get a collection agency involved, you'll get your money then, no one wants it to affect their credit.

Probably going the collection agency route. My friend works for one, so that helps. I certainly would give this couple a break if they would actually respond to my emails and phone calls and give me a viable reason why it is taking so long. It gets a bit frustraing when I get one line responces saying "ill get the payment to you eventually"

Well Travis you blew this one. You blew it by delivering them their wedding video. I had 2 clients this year that were to pay up front. One family I knew really well and the other one was strictly a client. The client job was in June and they haven't paid me yet and I have their videos sitting here. The next family I job I did I gave them everything knowing they'd mail the remaining balance. I have a feeling the clients will be the ones to pay and want their stuff and the family clients will not pay. I lost that money by giving them everything ahead of time. Will I do another job for them? Yeah with the balance from the last job added on top as a fine. Keep trying but you pretty much lost this one. Sorry for sounding a lil on the negative side, but that's the reality. Hope it all works out.

Monday

Exactly. I delivered a final product to a friend of the family who I already gave a great discount before she paid me. That was several months ago and still no money. I have to assume now that I will never get it even though I see her every week at church. She has to avoid me now all the time. If I had insisted on payment before delivery, none of this would have happened. I now have a strict "No dough, no show" policy (from 3 Amigos :) to collect a reservation fee at booking, half the remaining amount by the wedding date and the other half on delivery.

This can be tricky, especially if it is a friend.

I think your only defense in this industry is to not tape their event if they do not pay on the day of.

You can prep them well in advance that there will be no filming unless I am paid in full before the ceremony.

Otherwise, you still do a lot of work and after seeing the catering bills, they can blow you off.

Not an easy situation, but more prosessional you can be up front, the better they will treat you.

How much is the balance?

I've had this happen once, it was due to some bad circumstances that happened with the family after the wedding. In our case, the photos weren't delivered so they are still saying, a year later, that they will make the balance ASAP.

If the balance is less than $1k I would probably let it go. By the time you pay for collections or whatever other route you look at, plus the time involved, it becomes at very hard route to take.

Now that they have the DVDs and it has been a while, chances are- if they have waited this long- you won't see that final payment regardless of how you go about it.

Patrick

Mate you have to be ruthless NEVER give out DVD's unless FULL payment is made.

The way i operate is Payment in FULL 4weeks before the wedding that is it.

When you have a mortgage to pay you really need to get payed before the wedding. I learned the hard way awhile ago and this is my policy and being upfront with it people are fine but you have to deliver in the time frame you specify

Rob.

I'd be very clear with them and say that you simply need your money. If they don't respond with a clear time at which you will be paid (ie tell them by the end of the month), then you will get a collection agency involved. In fact, tell them some details. "Such and such agency, and they suggested that I..."

Be as nice as possible, but if you need the money, it isn't unreasonable.


For the future, I agree with getting paid for the wedding at the time.

I'm not sure if you really need to go as far as 4 weeks before (they don't even know you'll show up then), but at the time of the wedding is good, or, CERTAINLY, before you give them the DVDs.

How do you work taking payment when the DVD is ready

How long after the wedding do they get there DVD's on average for me it's 4 to 6 months i know i couldn't wait that long to get payed

This is stated to the couple before they book and i guess it works on reputation as well

At the time of the wedding do you mean the day of the wedding to recieve payment if so how does that work what happens if they dont have it what then.

Rob.

Travis,

Like it or not, you're S.O.L. on this one. I don't know what the balance is but honestly, is THAT amount going to make or break you? Probably not. So, chalk it up to experience and move on.

You could go through all that B.S. trying to recover your loss but how much more time, effort, and expense is that going to cost?

You've learned a valuable, though costly, lesson. Everyone pays up front. If they don't have the cash to pay now, there's a likelihood they won't have it later either.

I charge 50% due at the time of contract signing and I always require a signed contract (Comes from getting burned.) The balance is due the day of the shoot PRIOR to any recording. No exceptions.

I'm polite to potential and current customers but I'm not getting burned again. If they can't accept my policies, I cannot accept their business.

Jeff

Jeff

You take 50% on sign of contract and then the rest on the day of wedding what if they say sorry we forgot the money are you going to walk away that wont look good for you wouldn't it be better taking the money lets say the week of the wedding.

Rob.

My conscience says "go easy on the newleweds...they're still adjusting." My practical side insists 1) this is a business, 2) they made a commitment. Because they did, their credit rating should reflect how they meet their obligations. Not to be a harda$$, but I don't think I've ever had a bill "forgiven", have you? (Though I've never not paid one, either).
Even a payment plan that they adhered to would be better than nothing; even credit cards companies do that.

That makes we wonder: would accepting credit cards be your best protection against such situations? (I suspect that's how many caterers and banquet halls take deposits). I'm curious what others think of that. I seldom do weddings, but don't know why others wait for lump sums on a day that has to be among the most hectic of a client's life. What are the pitfalls of taking credit cards? Is it because of the amount that goes right to the card company? (I don't accept them yet, but may in the future).

Perhaps they need a gentle reminder from someone other than you. Ask a lawyer to write a letter; it can be done politely but clearly. If nothing comes of that, turn it over to collections. A year is plenty of time to wait, especially without interest or late fees.

Good luck, and get as much as you can! You worked for it and you're entitled to it.

Travis,

Small Claims Court (or, Conciliation Court is what I think they call it up there in Hennepin County) is the answer. If your claim is less than $7,500, and you have the documentation to back up your claim, go for it.

The filing fee is probably around $50, and no lawyer is needed. You present your evidence and the defendants give their sorry excuse. If you win, the defendant not only has to pay the judgement, but also your filing fee.

Well, that's how it is in this state. MN might be a bit different. You can probably go online and find out what your local procedure is and whatever forms are required.

I've been that route a few times, and it works. Well, okay, I've never been stiffed by a relative. I can understand how that could cause some hesitation on your part.

But, the bottom line is you have a contract, you fulfilled your part of it, the client did not. You are not SOL and you should not chalk up the loss of payment to "experience." Unless there's more to it than what you've written, the law is on your side, and a relatively inexpensive procedure to make things right is in place for you to use.

Now I'm not going to get off on a rant here but it does appear that Tom and I have very different views on how to take this situation.

Tom makes good points about small claims court in that the filing fee is relatively low and if you win you can collect the filing fee (as well as attorney's fees if you consulted one in preparation for the case).

So let's say you go to court, and you win. Now what? You have a judgement. A civil judgement. Not a criminal judgment. So what if they decide they still aren't going to pay? What are you going to do then? Invest more time and effort? You can't make them pay especially if they haven't got the means to pay. There are no debtor prisons. You could try to garnish wages. More time and effort.

If collecting on a civil judgement were so easy, the family of murder victim Ron Goldman would not be trying to collect from OJ Simpson some 10 years after winning a civil judgement.

Just my view on this small claims matter. But it may work well for you so I encourage you to explore that route if you think it will be to your advantage.


Robert Bec,

I inadvertently omitted the words "on or before" in my post when talking about when payment is due. I've never had a B&G wait until the wedding day to settle the bill. Bands do it all time. But to answer your question about walking if "they" forget the money. I haven't run into this but if I do, I'll not only walk, I won't refund their retainer either (the 50% at signing). Before I up and walk, I'll give them the opportunity to go get the money or they can use a credit card since I have the means to call in a charge. But if they don't pay, I don't record. It's that simple. I wonder how they would react if I told them I forgot to bring my cameras.

I've done enough freebies, nearly freebies, and charitable work that I won't feel bad If I have to walk because someone forgot they had to pay before I tape. Maybe my attitude is not the same as many other videographers but one thing I know. If I'm going to have a hard time collecting payment from a customer, it's going to be before I roll tape, not after. It's nothing personal. It's just business.

Jeff

Tom makes good points about small claims court in that the filing fee is relatively low and if you win you can collect the filing fee (as well as attorney's fees if you consulted one in preparation for the case).

So let's say you go to court, and you win. Now what? You have a judgement. A civil judgement. Not a criminal judgment. So what if they decide they still aren't going to pay? What are you going to do then? Invest more time and effort? You can't make them pay especially if they haven't got the means to pay. There are no debtor prisons. You could try to garnish wages. More time and effort.

If collecting on a civil judgement were so easy, the family of murder victim Ron Goldman would not be trying to collect from OJ Simpson some 10 years after winning a civil judgement.

It's nothing personal. It's just business.

Jeff

Small claims court is certainly an avenue to take, though could easily be considered useless unless you want to really make a statement and go the garnishment route. In my state, even though you might have a judgment, that gives you no more resources to collect the debt, i.e. it doesn't automatically get a collection agency or even the court working for you sending letters or knocking on doors; you have to collect it yourself, through your own effort. Which means an attorney, or at least more letters, visits, phone calls, whatever. Such judgments are basically toothless in my state; it depends on the deadbeat's fear of the law. Makes me think a collection agency would be more effective; at least they have the ability to affect someone's credit rating; I don't think a civil judgment does that.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

So let's say you go to court, and you win. Now what? ........

Each state has it's own rules as to what happens if you win in Small Claims Court and the defendant doesn't pay or appeal the ruling. The state Denis lives in doesn't sound very supportive. Here's what a defendant in NC can look forward to if he/she loses in SCC and still refuses to pay up:

"If the defendant has not paid or appealed in the 10-day period, you can come to the civil division of the Clerk of Superior Court's Office and have the clerk issue an order to the sheriff called an execution. This gives the sheriff the power to demand payment of your judgment from the defendant. If the defendant does not pay, the sheriff can then seize any cash, vehicles, goods or other property of the defendant, sell them, and use the money to pay the judgment. The sheriff turns over any money collected in this way to the clerk, who notes payment in the official records and gives the money to you."

Small Claims Court here is not small potatoes. It has some teeth.

I'm very much in line with Jeff on payment.
I am paid in FULL by the wedding day. I think people who ask for final payment on delivery follow bad business practice. I can not spend time editing without payment.

As to small claims court, yes it may depend on the state but if you got a partial payment up front from anything with an account on it, you have an account to garnish if you win. Of course that account can be empty by the time you win if they really have no intention to pay. The judgement can damage their credit rating so you do have something to hold over them. For a newlywed couple damage to credit rating can have a major negative impact if they plan on buying a home, car, take out a loan, etc.

Just to clarify, this is NOT family or a friend. I think someone else metioned that they had an experience like that. Right now, were trying to go the payment route. Isnt it ridiculous that it pays for being late on payments? This account is over 100 days past due, and now I send her monthly and bi-weekly payment options, to make it easier for them to pay me. My attorney recommended trying that before taking further action. Also, as i stated in my original post, I understand I shouldnt have given the DVD's to the client without full payment, obvisously thats not my policy, but I tried to give the clients a break, which of course bit me firmly in da buttocks. Tis Business.

Travis,

I think it's total BS this runaround your customer is putting you through. It appears to me that her "I'll pay you when I can" attitude is an indicator that she doesn't intend to pay you at all. If she had any intention of paying you, she'd try to pay you a few dollars here and a few dollars there.

She's likely very content to let you suffer the loss. Now I don't know this person but I know that kind of behavior. And take some comfort in the fact that "what leaves home, comes home." She'll get burned eventually and deservedly so.

But no need to let this deadbeat affect your life in any way anymore. You don't need the aggravation, hassle, and headaches. Just put it behind you and move on. It can't be that much money.

Besides, I've checked out your website, which I like quite a bit. You've got talent. I don't think this one bad egg is going to ruin your business or your future.

Forge on and tell the deadbeat to ________ off! It's quite apparent that you could do more for her than she could ever do for you.

Jeff

I've had the exact same thing happen to me. Only difference is that I have not delivered and will not deliver the product until I have full payment.

It was a last minute booking, I didn't get them to sign contract or even a deposit (my mistake I know). I have made two requests for payments and got, "I'm trying to get your money together" both times.

Bottom line is that I'm putting it down to experience, I do not think they will come looking for the video, if they do all well and good it's there waiting for them. However, I will not be contacting them again, as I said I'm putting it down to experience!

NEVER DO A SHOOT WITHOUT A SIGNED CONTRACT OR A DEPOSIT --- that's what I've learned the hard way!

My advice, don't shoot without full payment for the event. Corporate work may be different, but weddings......... no payment no shoot, my time is very precious and I can't spend editing time for my other clients calling over and over again for payment.

This can be tricky, especially if it is a friend.

I think your only defense in this industry is to not tape their event if they do not pay on the day of.

You can prep them well in advance that there will be no filming unless I am paid in full before the ceremony.

Otherwise, you still do a lot of work and after seeing the catering bills, they can blow you off.

Not an easy situation, but more prosessional you can be up front, the better they will treat you.

That's what I do. 50% is due up front to book it, the balance is to be paid in full before the first tape rolls. If they've booked early enough, it gives them time to make 'easy' payments, so that by the wedding day, the balance has been paid off. It works for me.

But to respond to the first question; pester, pester, pester the @#$% out of them.

Mark

That's what I do. 50% is due up front to book it, the balance is to be paid in full before the first tape rolls.

I’m not going to say what is right or wrong. One great thing about owning your own business is that it is your business to conduct as you see fit.

I work on a 50/50 structure. 50% due at booking, the remaining amount is due before I edit.

This policy seems to work very well with me.

I usually get the final payment on the wedding day, if not, I go home and let the tapes sit in a file folder until I get a check in the mail.

The nice thing is that the client feels secure because they know you have a motivation to show up to their event.

I don’t get angry if it takes a while for them to send me the second half since I haven’t edited yet. If the client flakes out, no harm done since I haven’t done any work yet.

I think more established companies can get away demanding 100% percent since they usually work on referral and reputation vs. craigslist, if you know what I mean.

One day, I hope I can be so demanding!

once you have a judgement - you then need to know where they keep their $$ ... if they paid you part of the payment then you know their bank ...
or you can get a collection agency involved either by selling the the judgement for X cents on the dollar or you get them to collect for X percent ...

IMO once they have the product there is no motivation to pay you -
so they don't pay you - what has happened so far ? nothing !!
they have a nice wedding DVD and they have saved a $xxxx$ = not a bad deal for them ....
you either go get it (by legal means) or forget about it ( as in eat it) - your choice ...

all the weddings that i've paid for - everybody had contracts where $$ was paid before the wedding date ( flowers , food, photo's/video, clothing, location).

all the weddings that i've paid for - everybody had contracts where $$ was paid before the wedding date ( flowers , food, photo's/video, clothing, location).

If you can get 100% payment, more power to you.

The difference with video production is that it's a 2 phase process. Catering, Venue, DJ, Flowers need all the money in advance because once the event is over that's it. From that point on, there is no further motivation to make a client pay. They don't have anything to hold onto like we do. If they don't pay, we keep the video, so we have some protection at least.

I like others request 20% on booking and then the balance 14 days before the event.... no pay, no return of deposit.

One issue always seems to be that before the event money is no object...what they want they go for as it is their special day.

After the event, they realise the cost of what they have done and any future expenditure for the event is very unlikely!

I offer some montage discs that hold just the short clip of the wedding for them. I have many couple that say they will order them after the wedding....guess what, not one ever has. If I do not sell them before, they certainly wont pay for anything else wedding related.

With this thought in mind I would suggest all of us get paid before. You may think that ethically this is right or wrong, but if you want to get paid.....

While I don't mind getting final payment of day of wedding or, if the customer can't do that, I can wait for final payment before I edit but I do NOT recommed editing before final payment.

If you've edited and you haven't gotten paid, holding the video doesn't do you any good. You've lost time that you could have used for another paying project.

Whether it's a shoot or an edit, time is paid for BEFORE I begin that stage of a project.

This seems to be what you do Scott and I think that is reasonable and sound.