I was watching Ty's Video and reading other materials online and have come to understand that a hypercardoid mic might make more sense then a shotgun when shooting indoors in houses and other locations with 8 - 9 ft ceilings.

I know the Shoeps is preferd, but at over a grand its way out of my price range. It there anything in the Sub $500 catagory that would outpreform the AT4073a for indor work when used 1 - 3 ft range from the talent.

I've been using the AKG SE300/CK93 for quite a while and have been extremely pleased with it's performance. Not to mention you can change the capsule (CK93) to a caroid capsule so you've got 2 mics in 1 body. Not to say you don't have to buy the 2 capsules seperatly though.

IIRC I think the 300/93 combo was about $500 when I got it perhaps it was a bit less.

Don

The Russian built Oktava MK012 is a low cost favourite. There is a reputation of quality control issues, but most vendors know to do their own tests before reselling. Most.

I got mine from Thomann (I'm in the UK):
http://www.thomann.de/gb/oktava_mk012_kleinmembran_kondensatormikrofon.htm

I would not recommend the Oktava MK 012 01 for just the very reason stated by Mike. My Oktava lasted a very short time before it failed. Very low signal.I have sent it back for repair and I am afraid I am out of luck. Don't make the same mistake I did, purchased a quality microphone, even if you have to spend a little more money. It will last you a long time.
D Kane

I would not recommend the Oktava MK 012 01 for just the very reason stated by Mike. My Oktava lasted a very short time before it failed. Very low signal.I have sent it back for repair and I am afraid I am out of luck. Don't make the same mistake I did, purchased a quality microphone, even if you have to spend a little more money. It will last you a long time.
D Kane


And though I don't have direct experience to confirm or refute it, the Oktaka also has a reputation for being particularly sensitive to handling and wind noises. Even though they're more expensive, it's not THAT much more to go with an AKG or Audio Technica.

I use an Audio-Technica 4053a hypercardioid, and I'm quite happy with it.

B&H sells it for about $400
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68315-REG/Audio_Technica_AT4053A_AT4053a_Condenser_Microphone.html

Octavas from the Sound Room have a very good reputation. I can also vouch for the Blueline (CK93).

I bought my Oktava from the Sound Room. They do not answer their phone, nor do they return my messages. I am now dealing with the US importer directly.
D Kane

Sorry to hear. :(

David, I have experience only with modestly priced mics, so I don't know how my suggestion compares the higher-end ones, but I use a Rode NT3 hypercardioid indoors with good results.

David, I have experience only with modestly priced mics, so I don't know how my suggestion compares the higher-end ones, but I use a Rode NT3 hypercardioid indoors with good results. NT-3 is a good mic and fine on a mic stand with boom arm but isn't it a bit heavy and cumbersome out on the end of a 10 foot pole hand held by a boom-op?

Hi all:

I concluded tests for an article I am writing specifically about short shotguns, hyper and supercardioid mics for video production. I just tested twelve mics, ranging in prices from $250.00 to $1,600.00. I just completed extensive recording with most of the mics mentioned on this thread and I have some observations...

1. If you want an Oktava, deal with the direct importer, www.oktavausa.com do not purchase from any other parties in the U.S. or you may get an inferior knock-off, defective unit, etc. I was impressed with the Oktava for the money, it's a very nice sounding unit. I tested with the cardioid and hyper cardioid capsules.

2. The most popular Schoeps designs including the CMC641 combo, sell for $1,600.00 so it's way over a grand. And worth it. I tested this mic as well as their new CMIT5 short shotgun and both are amazingly natural and detailed sounding. I will say this, out of all of the mics I tested, the Schoeps mics sounded the least colored and most accurate. As they should at those prices.

3. I learned that it's total insanity to buy a mic without using it and listening to it in person. Those of you that order mics based off of other people's recommendations on the web without hearing and using it your self are not getting the best mic for your situation. My article, when I complete it (it will be huge) will be very comprehensive and I recorded five different types of setups with each mic - male voice interior, on axis, male voice interior off axis, female voice interior on axis, handling noise test and male voice exterior on axis.

I learned that almost all of the mics on the market are capable of excellent sound. I learned that all have their individual strengths and weaknesses for certain situations. For instance, the Audio-Technica AT-4073a has much higher output than all eleven of the mics I used and can pickup detail from far distances better. But it's also more sibilant and may actually have too much detail and mouth noise from certain talent.

Cost is not always an indicator of quality. One of the most impressive mics I tested was Audio-Techinca's new AT-875R. It was also the cheapest mic I tested at $259.00. It sounded great, had low handling noise, is small and cheap. It, of course, didn't sound as good as the Schoeps and high-end Sennheisers but it sounded really good for the money.

Unfortunately AKG declined to participate in the test as did Neumann, so far. I may be able to get my hands on a KMR 82i after AES as well as a Sennheiser MKH-416. Other than that, I feel like we got a great cross section of the hyper, super and cardioid mics on the market. Keep an eye out for the article in the next four weeks over at www.kenstone.net

Best,

Dan

You're right, Steve. The NT3 is heavy and fat. I use it on a stand.

and not very natural sounding, relative to a Schoeps cmc641.

AT 4053a as suggested and Audix SCX-1 if you can't afford a Schoeps.

Please feel free to peruse the mic reviews in my On Line archive.

Regards,

Ty Ford

actually, if you want an Oktava, go to Oktavamod.com and get a modified version. this guy changes out the electronics for much better performance and worth the few extra dollars. 012 mod is my next mic purchase actually.

Steve,

Seriously, consider the SCX-1.


Regards,

Ty Ford

thanks for the reccomendation. any online samples of it ?

I need to pick something up in about a month or so.

Have you used the OktavaMod 012 ? at least in the online comparisons of the straight vs modded mic's it sounded good. I need mild cardoid and hypercardoid pickup patterns for use in practical interiors where shotguns get you into trouble because you don't want narrow pickup, you need something wider to cover 2-4 people talking next to each other, like at a table, or standing in a group, with low ceiling. I know... I'll get a CMC641 + MK21 sometime next year, but between now and then, I'm looking for something.

Wow. In that position, I'd bite the big one and get a cmc641 now and another one next year. (I have two).

Regards,

Ty

well I'm doing a staged upgrade of all my gear, not just audio right now. just bought a 575 HMI a month ago, 2 lectro 195's (used), as well as smaller items, so I'm trying to stretch it out a little. I know if I pick up either the oktava or Audix, I can either sell it and roll the money over into a shoeps, or keep it as backup, 2nd tier use. Its not that I couldn't get the cmc641 setup, its that I'm also looking at a new lav or two ( ecm 44 or 77's, or B6 ), modding my fp33, and some other small items which I need.so available funds are spoken for right now. BTW, a oktavamod 012 with 3 capsules,-10db cut, basic mount is $419... not that the audix doesn't have my attention, but I didn't find any pricing on the capsules. I assume it comes with a cardoid, and the hypercardiod is unknown...

Steve,

I'm sure the SCX-1 I saw and heard was a hyper.

http://www.audixusa.com/products.html

2nd teir maybe. I doubt you'll sell it.

Ty

Hi Ty:

I am intrigued the Audix SCX1. Have you used one? How is the handling noise? Off axis rejection? I am curious and wish that I could have included one of these in my article but I am out of time and in the middle of writing up all of the test results.

All the best,

Dan

ok, who has the audix capsules ? B&H for a quick look sells them with your choice of capsule, but doesn't list individual ones. is it a direct buy from audix ?

I'd suggest posting a message to member Marty Atias. He has long been a proponent of Audix.

Hi Ty:

I am intrigued the Audix SCX1. Have you used one? How is the handling noise? Off axis rejection? I am curious and wish that I could have included one of these in my article but I am out of time and in the middle of writing up all of the test results.

All the best,

Dan

Hello Dan,

I don't suggest gear without having had some experience with it. 70% of a cmc641 at 70% of the cost (+/- a few points).

Having said that, I own two cmc641, use them regularly and wouldn't trade them for SCX-1 even if you also gave me cash as well.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Hi all:

I concluded tests for an article I am writing ...

Cost is not always an indicator of quality. One of the most impressive mics I tested was Audio-Techinca's new AT-875R.

Dan

Dan

Do you have any preliminary results on the AT-875R? I'm wondering how the 90hz bottom limit affects practical usage.

Dan,

NOT trying to be snarkey, just curious. What's your background in reviewing mics?

I have the AT875R here. While it is described as a hypercardioid, it is also employs an interference tube. They are usually wonky off axis somewhere.

It does require 11 to 48 V DC phantom power and sounded pretty nice when I had it plugged in the other day. I even ran on my AT U100 plugon transmitter and that only provides 10 V DC. I would NOT recommend doing that on a regular basis. Operating below rated voltage and current results in degraded audio.

Regards,

Ty

Dan

Do you have any preliminary results on the AT-875R? I'm wondering how the 90hz bottom limit affects practical usage.

Hi Tsu:

I did do extensive recording and am in the middle of writing the review including the 875r. I think that for the money, it is a very impressive mic with great sound. I may pick one up myself, it's quite good for the money. Audio-Technica has a winner with this one IMHO.

BTW, there is very little usable content below 90hz in most location sound situations so I would say it affects the usability very little. Most of the time, we end up using bass roll off on either the mic or the mixers to knock down a lot of the low end rumble.

The article will go live toward the end of October, still waiting to get my hands on the Neumann KMR81i and the Sennheiser MKH-416, both weren't available to me until after AES ends.

Best,

Dan

Dan,

NOT trying to be snarkey, just curious. What's your background in reviewing mics?

No snarkiness taken. I worked in a recording studio as an engineer in my late teen/early twenties years, have always been a musician and have been recording location sound on mostly my own shoots but also on shoots for many others since the mid-1980s. I was also in retail consumer and professional audio sales involved with Harman International and several other popular brands.

Plus I love quality microphones, I own a Neumann TLM-103, TLM-49, various Sennheiser shotguns, cardioids and super cardioids as well as several lavalieres. I too have been curious about the Oktava, the Neumann KMRs, etc. so I took the bull by the horns and setup my own informal, practical and non-test bench type of testing. I figured if I recorded all of the mics in common practical, identical situations, those sound files coupled with my observations might be interesting to many non sound mixers. Really only sound guys seem to care a lot about specs and test-bench testing. I have no anechoic chamber, just my humble HVX-200, a PSC M4 MKII and these mics to test.

I never wanted to make location sound mixing my chosen profession as I have a good friend and business partner who is a professional location sound mixer and sound designer. But I love audio, love to dabble with it and experiment and observe the different ways to record good quality sound.

I have written several popular location sound articles for www.kenstone.net over the years,
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/basic_audio_filter_tutoria.html
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/review_deck_1.html
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/review_mini_disc_rec.html
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/review_shotgun_mics.html
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/audio_fcp_4_editors.html
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/soundtrack_editors.html
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/soundtrack_starting_dan.html
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/audio_essentials_fcp_4.html
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/tv_pilot_hvx_200_brockett.html

I prefer to write for Ken over the magazines and other websites because he is a nice guy, a friend and his website features no politics, no ads, no pop-ups and is an unbiased information resource and he attracts lots of talented people.

I have also lectured and taught audio at the Los Angeles Final Cut Pro Users Group (I am one of the co-founders of the group) and have shot thousands of interviews, television shows, documentaries as a lighting cameraman, director and producer. I also wrote a book for O'Reilly on Apple's Soundtrack, before it became Soundtrack Pro. That's why I always try to write from the perspective of appealing to someone like me, who knows something about sound but is not necessarily in the C.A.S. or is a working sound mixer. The fact of life is that more and more camerapeople, editors, producers and directors, especially in the low-end of things are recording their own sound. They often don't have the budget to hire a sound crew. My articles and training are all aimed at them, not at professional sound mixers. I always try to hire sound mixers and boom operators when the budget permits but as I am sure you have experienced, there are a LOT of productions that are shot with one and two person crews where there is no budget for sound.

BTW, a question for you. I bought an Ogio Ty Video Backpack for a shoot in the U.K. to transport my HVX and PB. So do you get a big cut of that? ;-) http://www.ogio.com/product.php?product=57

Dan

If you want a truly budget workhorse mic, try the AKG C1000s. I have found it is extremely durable, affordable and works for lots of different situations with the interchageable carioid/Hypercardioid pattern.
Mark G

No hard feelings, but the c1000, while usable in average PA situations, is usually frowned upon in location audio because it's pretty edgey.

Regards,

Ty Ford

there are allot of mics to choose from and not only schoeps which is overpriced mic if you use it for dialog , and it better as it would come with cut 1 ( another 450 usd ) to eliminate the boom rumble .
so its not really oktava to blame but more bad shock mounts people use and no ability to cut everything under 75 hz .
there is a list of mics our rentals have and we have exellent results with
mkh-50 - quieter then the schoeps -more directional , has low cut filter
better for humidity situation - the down side it one capsule mic so you need a mkh 40 for shots you need wider capsule -about 1400usd
akg 480 + 63 hyper and 61 card - grate sound , low fq cut off , have swivel joint - sounds fantastic - cost half the schoeps ( 650-800usd) , additional capsules for 200
microtech gefell m210hyper , excellent sounding mic -1100usd , low fq cut off
additional capsule( 200 card)-about 650usd
mbho 604 + ka-500 card , very good sounding mic for dialog --850 usd
the shortest , have allot of capsules to choose - additional cardioid - 280 usd
have swivel joint to add - maybe one of the best bangs for the buck
the 603 body which is standard is about 100$ less .

chinese mics i used for about 600 grand production days - same factory that makes for sontronics ( check their page|) and others - 200usd for 3 capsules mic , low fq cut off , good for boom

by the way i have 4 schoepses as well but they where bought years ago to record mainly music where they are really grate , but for dialog - just listen to others and save money