I have posted a similar topic over at the steadicam forum, and got some great feedback, especially fron Charles Pappert (he should be getting paid for all the help he gives users!), but I still have an issue with the Merlin that although common sense tells me I just need more practice to overcome, I am still looking for that magic something that someone will turn me on to that will solve my problem.

In a nutshell, when walking forward with the Merlin I get a vertical bobbing motion that I can not seem to shake.

Here is an example -

http://hv20.info/yopu/bobbing_02.mov

One thing Charles advised me of was that since I am flying a tiny camera (HV20), I should add extra weight to try and help deaden this motion. I did that, and it helped a little. I have also tried various forms of walking, have practiced with simple things like a full glass of water etc., but I still get this bobbing.
As I stated on the steadicam forum, I am just trying to get some solid direction as to whcih way I should be pointing as I travel down this path, I am afraid of reinforcing bad technique by not having a good solid framework to start from in terms of correct technique.

To reiterate, I have re-read tha manual, re-watched the DVD that came with it (looks like those guys are just walking totally naturally, but that is probably deceptive), have tried a heel to toe motion, shorter steps, holding my arms way out in front, arms more to the side, etc, etc, to no avail so far.

Any tips would be greatly aprrecited.

Sam DeWitt

Since you're using such a light camera, you need to have a very light touch on the rig. The more inputs you put in the more unsteady your shots will tend to be. Ideally you should be totally relaxed, if you're stiff and muscling the rig unsteadiness will be apparent.

Thanks for that, I certainly don't feel like I am being tense when I walk with it. I have tried to adopt a "relaxed yet concentrated" approach.

Thanks again for your reply.

Sam

Take smaller steps than usual and slightly bend at the knees while walking. Try and adapt a lighter touch to the gimble. The finesse will come with time & practice.

Yes, smaller steps have helped, but I am not completely "cured" yet.

Thanks much for the reply.

Sam

Sam,

I've only just got my Steadicam Merlin today and posted a few samples on the Clips area for the XH A1 newsgroup.

If I understand you correctly, your issue is to do with too much bottom heavy. Meaning you've either got too much weight on the lower spar or you've turned the guide ring to far in (towards fully clockwise or alomost tight).

If your problem happens when you're standing still and simply move your steadicam out in front of you and bring it right back and out again (kind of like you're boxing someone in front of you), then you're too bottom heavy.

Thanks Shiv, but no, that is not it at all. Through all of this I have gotten quite good at balancing the camera, it is not bottom heavy at all.

I can now balance a camera from scratch, or add attachments and re-balance in a very short time.

I am not getting any of the sway that you refer to, and my drop time is good.

Sam

1. You have your camera too close to your body and your elbow is locked.
2. You are transmitting your torso's up and down motion directly to your hand.

The big steadicams have a double suspension arm which isolates the sled from your torso's motion. Since you don't have a double suspension, try holding the camera farther out in front of you, and relax your upper arm more. In essence, you are turning your entire arm into a spring that isolates your torso from your hand. Use this posture when you're moving, then bring in the camera close to you when you stop moving to prevent fatigue. When you move again, slowly push your hand out, then start walking with slower, gliding steps. Holding your hand farther away from your body helps isolate unwanted torso movement.

Sam,

Here are some questions for you:
1. The bobing up and down, is it in step with your steps?
2. If not, do you see the camera/Merlin combination moving?

Warren -

Thanks, those are great suggestions. I have tried the arm way out in front and other than making my arm get tired REALLY fast, it did not help much with the bobbing.
I was really thinking the extra weight would help, and I think it did a little, but so far the best thing I have found is to walk with smaller steps, and to be REALLY conscious of how I am walking. When I walk this way though I can not get a good pace going. My goal is to be able to walk at my normal stride without the bobbing.
I do think I am getting there though, and I really aprreciate the advice.

Shiv -

Yes, the bobbing is in rythm with my step. The camera is very well balanced. If I stand still and quickly move my arm right, left, forward or back, the rig exhibits no sway at all.

Sam

Sam,

In a way it looks like I'm glad I got a heavy Camera :).

I've got a really tiny video camera. It's not HD but I'll mount it on and balance it and see what I get and let you know.

Shiv -

Thanks, that would be helpful.
Conversely, I have an old JVC GRHD 01 that I think I will mount to see what that is like. I am not where it is right now, but you have given me a really good idea, thanks again.

Sam

Sam,

Here are my finding:
A balanced my tiny Camera (Panasonic SD HC I think) on the Merlin. As you know, there are many combinations in which you can get a balanced camera/Merlin combination, I find that using more weights rather than the bare minimum will help.

I initially got it balanced using the bare minimum weights:
1 End weight in the front
1 End weight at the bottom
The spars and gimbal adjusted accordingly.

Took it for a walk. There was a very slight bobbing. Nothing like the clip you posted.

Next, I added a start weight to the bottom. In other words I now have a start and end weight on the bottom spar.

I unscrewed the gimbal 3-4 turns and adjusted the spars to get almost balanced (shifting the camera towards the back on the stage as well).

Took it for a walk and the bobbing is gone. So if adding more weight is going to help this, then that's what I'd do.

Maybe start backwards. That is put on more weights.

1 mid weight and 1 end weight on the front.
3-4 mid weights plus 1 start and 1 end weight on the bottom.
Open up the spars just more than halfway.
Get almost balanced by shifting the camera on the stage.
Then fine tune using the gimbal and trims.

Let us know how it goes.

Shiv.

Shiv -

Thanks much for your testing!

Sam

Shiv--

Sounds like you have jumped into the Merlin thing with both feet!

How is that job going?

Charles -

I just came back from seeing In The Valley Of Elah, and as the credits rolled by, I saw your Steadicam credit and I thought to myself "I don't remember any Steadicam shots". That's the biggest compliment you can get - when the work is so transparent that I could concentrate on the story.

Charles,

Before I reply, just wanted you to know that you've been a great help (and others here as well). I've been concentrating on the "things that matter" (as per your advise).

The Merlin arrived sooner that I was told/expected (Wednesday). So I got it here (VA) instead of next week in CO. Yes, I took to it like a fish to water. I happened to have read (study is more like it) the manual on-line the night before. I had it balanced in about an hour the first time (going totally blind). I posted some clips on the newsgroup you should see. They aren't artsy or anything, but I was just having a blast. What an exhilerating experience.

This evening I went for a jog with the Merlin (and Camera) (Wife and a friend were on cycles). There was a slight breeze so it was difficult keeping the camera pointed where I wanted it. As a result I got a few shots that had a dutch tilt to them (look pretty cool actually). Needless to say, I was done in about 20 minutes. When I look at the footage, I can't believe I was practically running with that thing. So yes, I've jumped in with both feet and loving it.

Today the Letus arrived. Another great piece of equipment. I feel a lot better today. A lot of what's and hows and stuff has been answered and now I'm free to imagine and be creative.

The shoot begins next week and I'm really excited. Thanks for asking.

Shiv.

Glad to hear you are enjoying the gear Shiv, that's what it's all about (and Steadicam is an exhilarating and liberating skill).

Tsu, thank you! I haven't seen "Elah" yet myself. I'm pretty sure that I have at least 4 major Steadicam shots in the movie, but I would imagine that they are fairly chopped up with other shots and also I would guess that the film itself is strong enough that it is not really about the camera pyrotechnics. The sequence where Tommy Lee Jones first tours the barracks and talks to his son's friends was Steadicam; Charlize approaching the crime scene at night (girl in bathtub) was a big shot of mine that involved a crane step-off; chasing the perp through the alleys had plenty of Steadicam, both body-and-vehicle mounted; Tommy Lee touring the amputee ward of the hospital; and a really tough shot of Charlize and Jason Patric walking out of the cross-examination room (and then her walking REALLY fast back in, which required me to backpedal through a narrow doorway at high speed about 25 times...!)

So I don't know which of these shots made it, although most are in the trailer so I guesss some form of them are in the film. I'll find out soon!

Anyone see "Balls of Fury"...?

Sam,

Here are my finding:
A balanced my tiny Camera (Panasonic SD HC I think) on the Merlin. As you know, there are many combinations in which you can get a balanced camera/Merlin combination, I find that using more weights rather than the bare minimum will help.

I initially got it balanced using the bare minimum weights:
1 End weight in the front
1 End weight at the bottom
The spars and gimbal adjusted accordingly.

Took it for a walk. There was a very slight bobbing. Nothing like the clip you posted.

Next, I added a start weight to the bottom. In other words I now have a start and end weight on the bottom spar.

I unscrewed the gimbal 3-4 turns and adjusted the spars to get almost balanced (shifting the camera towards the back on the stage as well).

Took it for a walk and the bobbing is gone. So if adding more weight is going to help this, then that's what I'd do.

Maybe start backwards. That is put on more weights.

1 mid weight and 1 end weight on the front.
3-4 mid weights plus 1 start and 1 end weight on the bottom.
Open up the spars just more than halfway.
Get almost balanced by shifting the camera on the stage.
Then fine tune using the gimbal and trims.

Let us know how it goes.

Shiv.

I was finally able to get back to my Merlin kit and try your ideas, I have to say that adding the weight simply made it extremely bottom heavy. I tried many iterations of what you had suggested, and though sometimes it would feel as though it were balanced, it REALLY exhibited the sway that you were first talking about in this thread.
It seems counter-intiutive to me that adding more mid or end weights could possibley do anything other than make the whole thing bottom heavy. Were you able to get it balanced and not exhibit the swaying motion, and was your drop time still good?

Thanks so much for all the time you have put into this.

Sam

Sam -
I don't have a Merlin, had a few other stabilizers along the way, so I think what the other posters mean is to add weight to the overall rig, not just the bottom. IOW you need to add weight at the camera end - bigger battery, a WA lens, etc. Obviously this is a "balancing act" - the challenge with a light camera is may actually create less inertia than the rig, which in turn makes it harder for the rig to control it. Hope that made sense. I gather the Merlin handles a wider range of cameras, but I'm sure that at the high and low end of the weight range it becomes more touchy.

Also, how are you holding the handle? It may be that you are trying to keep it "vertical", where a slight angle will help take the bounce out?

For anyone having trouble moving the Merlin smoothly and moving smoothly with the Merlin -- when it is properly balanced -- I highly recommend a few adult ballet classes -- or maybe even some kind of slow motion martial arts training.

Sam -
I don't have a Merlin, had a few other stabilizers along the way, so I think what the other posters mean is to add weight to the overall rig, not just the bottom. IOW you need to add weight at the camera end - bigger battery, a WA lens, etc. Obviously this is a "balancing act" - the challenge with a light camera is may actually create less inertia than the rig, which in turn makes it harder for the rig to control it. Hope that made sense. I gather the Merlin handles a wider range of cameras, but I'm sure that at the high and low end of the weight range it becomes more touchy.

Also, how are you holding the handle? It may be that you are trying to keep it "vertical", where a slight angle will help take the bounce out?

Thanks for the reply. I have added weight overall. That was what my original post was about, following the advice of Charles Pappert and adding weight to the camera. I also then tried Shiv's technique of adding mid and end weights, but this made it act bottom heavy.
I have actually tried the handle in several positions.

Sam

Try this:
When making you moves, don't carry the camera with you; but rather move the camera along the path you want it to go on, and then simply move yourself around/with it.

Don't concentrate on carying it corretly, but rather, concentrate on how you want it to move and let your instincts keep your body along for the ride.

Basically: Let the camera/rig lead.

- Mikko

Try this:
When making you moves, don't carry the camera with you; but rather move the camera along the path you want it to go on, and then simply move yourself around/with it.

Don't concentrate on carying it corretly, but rather, concentrate on how you want it to move and let your instincts keep your body along for the ride.

Basically: Let the camera/rig lead.

- Mikko

Thanks for this Mikko, just to make sure, you do understand that I am simply talking about walking forwards with it? Not moving around, panning around etc?

Sam

What's moving?

Either the camera is rocking back and forth on the gimble, or

your arm is moving up and down, or

you are bouncing up and down on the balls of your feet.

If it's anything but the first, you just have to hold/move the camera smoothly/still. There is no magic.

Perhaps you could post a video of you walking with the camera.

What's moving?

Either the camera is rocking back and forth on the gimble, or

your arm is moving up and down, or

you are bouncing up and down on the balls of your feet.

If it's anything but the first, you just have to hold/move the camera smoothly/still. There is no magic.

Perhaps you could post a video of you walking with the camera.

I did post a video, it is in the first post on this thread.

Sam

Sam,
It doesn't matter. Basically I'm saying to stop worrying about how you are moving, but to rather concentrate on how the camera is moving.

If you want the camera somewhere, put the camera there - don't worry about going there and taking the camera with you; if you put the camera there, you will naturally follow.

If you want to make a move, or pan or tilt, do it; concentrate on the frame, on the location of the camera in 3D space, regardless of your position. As you make any moves with the camera, you will automatically follow along, but your shots will be better.

Think of it like a violinist concentrating on the music, not how they are holding the bow; or a painter who is watching the paint on the canvas, not where his arm is going to move the brush.

- Mikko

Sam,

Sorry, I''ve been out of town and just got back...

Add more weight to the rig but still make sure the blanace is correct. That is it is not bottom heavy.

I had the Merlin balanced in two ways. The first used the least number of weights. The drop test was just fine. I found that there was a bit of bobbing (nothing like what your video shows).


Next, I added more weight and got the Merlin Balanced again. Making sure again that the drop test was correct. This time there was no bobbing.

You should probably trying your rig with you barefoot or with shoes that don't have thick rubber soles or something. I find that when one is barefoot one tends to walk with a smoother gait.

This week I did buy an HV20 and used it on the Merlin from inside a car. But if you'd like I can post some footage of walking around with it.

I find that when one is barefoot one tends to walk with a smoother gait.

Shiv, come now, that's not practical advice!! What if you have to shoot in a factory? And for most people, it's not true, unless they tend to walk around barefoot a lot.

This is a STEADICAM--the idea is that it isolates you from your footsteps. You can run with it and get a stable shot--how could the material of your soles affect this.

Sam, what Jack is suggesting (and somewhere along the line I think I did also) was that you get someone else to shoot footage of you working with the rig so we can see what is going on with your form. It would be helpful if that shot is as stable as possible. I would suggest that they stand in one place and rotate as you make a large circle around them with the Merlin.

Charles,

I was just going through the "process of elimination". I don't expect anyone to actually go barefoot doing a real shoot :).

Sam,

Sorry, I''ve been out of town and just got back...

Add more weight to the rig but still make sure the blanace is correct. That is it is not bottom heavy.

I had the Merlin balanced in two ways. The first used the least number of weights. The drop test was just fine. I found that there was a bit of bobbing (nothing like what your video shows).


Next, I added more weight and got the Merlin Balanced again. Making sure again that the drop test was correct. This time there was no bobbing.

You should probably trying your rig with you barefoot or with shoes that don't have thick rubber soles or something. I find that when one is barefoot one tends to walk with a smoother gait.

This week I did buy an HV20 and used it on the Merlin from inside a car. But if you'd like I can post some footage of walking around with it.


Sure, I would love to see the footage!!

Thanks again,

Sam

Sam,

All of the remarks have been good. What I have found is with a very light set-up you need to walk as smoothly as possible. With heavier rigs it isn't as critical due to their mass. If you can add mass (weight) to your system so that it's still balanced you will see that it is much easier to get smoother shots.

This clip from our training DVD shows what I'm talking about:
http://indicam.com/media/WalkTheWalk256.wmv

The famous steadicam motto: practice, practice, practice could be altered just a bit with: practice-watch and evaluate, practice-watch and evaluate, practice-watch and evaluate.

With all the great ideas on this forum I'm sure you'll improve soon.

Tery
Indicam

Shiv, come now, that's not practical advice!! What if you have to shoot in a factory? And for most people, it's not true, unless they tend to walk around barefoot a lot.

This is a STEADICAM--the idea is that it isolates you from your footsteps. You can run with it and get a stable shot--how could the material of your soles affect this.

Sam, what Jack is suggesting (and somewhere along the line I think I did also) was that you get someone else to shoot footage of you working with the rig so we can see what is going on with your form. It would be helpful if that shot is as stable as possible. I would suggest that they stand in one place and rotate as you make a large circle around them with the Merlin.

I have placed 2 clips of my walking with the Merlin here -

http://www.obtuse-ny.com/steadi

Sam

I have placed 2 clips of my walking with the Merlin here -

http://www.obtuse-ny.com/steadi

Sam

Why not also a clip of the shots you took with the merlin?

The transfering of footsteps into the footage drives me insane as well!!

It is not too bad when using a 5lb camera with wideangle/fisheye lens but when using 1-2 lb cameras and running; id say alot of the camera footage is deemed unusable thanx to the footsteps.

I am definiately hoping that the vest+arm+(maybe pilot)+more practise will go a long long way to help in this matter.

Why not also a clip of the shots you took with the merlin?

I've put one up now at the same link -

http://www.obtuse-ny.com/steadi

It is the one with "result" in the title, and please, no chiding me for making the poor camera person, with a broken foot, submit to this, OK? : )

Sam

please, no chiding me for making the poor camera person, with a broken foot, submit to this, OK? : )


Hopefully, it's not as a result of trying to operate Steadicam barefoot ;)

From the looks of it, it looks like you're trying to control the Merlin too much. Your fingers should hardly touch the gimbal at all. It should only feather it to slightly adjust it in the way the camera should point. It looks like your fingers are holding it the whole time. Try to walk around with your right hand completely off the guide and just let the camera float, even if it point in the wrong direction. If your camera is not bottom heavy, you should see that the camera doesn't bob around.

Also, as Mikko said, don't concentrate on how you are holding the camera. Instead, imagine the line in space that you want the camera to follow and keep the camera on that path. For example, when going up and down stairs, instead of thinking, "I'm about to step up a step so I should bring the rig down simultaneously as I take my step up so that my steps don't transfer to the footage," just imagine where in space the camera should be throughout the shot. As you approach the step and your body moves up, you positioning hand will automatically bring the rig down because you're keeping the rig "in line."

Sam, sorry I haven't posted back earlier (coming from the one who unknowingly forced your poor partner out of the wheelchair!).

While I agree with Peter that you may be exerting too much constant pressure with your gimbal hand, which results in an over-controlled look (little hard "hitches" in the shot), normally that shouldn't cause a slow vertical bobbing. As it is, your footage seemed to exhibit less of this than on the earlier samples you put up. I have a sense that you are on the right track, and simply practicing and shooting more will result in the bobbing effect going away by itself once you and the machine learn how to play together most effectively.

Overall, I thought your form looked pretty good.

One thought comes to mind...If it was easy, everyone could do it without practice and good steadicam operators wouldn't be so valuable.

Thank heavens some of a smoothness of the shots come from the operator and the practice he or she has done through the years. Did I say "years"? Yes...years.

How long have you been shooting steadicam Charles?

Tery
Indicam

How long have you been shooting steadicam Charles?

Oy vey--well, it's been about 22 years now since I took the workshop in Rockport. I was actually practicing at a rental house prior to that but I call the workshop my "official" entry into Steadicam. It took me four more years to be able to afford my first (beater) rig; another four years to move up to a half-decent rig; four more years to get the state-of-the-art. I would say that it took about 10 years before I was pulling off shots that I would still consider really solid by my current standards (only one from that period remains on my reel).

Generally I think a committed operator with a knack for the thing can get good within six months, really good within a year or two and great within 3 or 4 years assuming they are working with it regularly. At a certain point it no longer becomes about the mechanics of horizon, panning and tilting smoothly etc. and the real fun of operating comes in, which is framing choices, timing and shot design. And that can be a lifetime learning process. Every now and then I get thrown a challenge that is oriented around the mechanics of the rig and getting on top of the peculiar forces that can occur, but most of the time I don't even think about the gear and all of my attention is on the contents of the frame (or, uh, what I'm going to have for lunch...!)

Charles,

Gosh, that just made my life a lot more difficult! :). That's some really serious experience.

I've seen some of your film work but to be honest I get to engrossed in the film I don't notice a lot of this kind of thing.

Do you have a website? I'd just love to take a look at your "reel".

Shiv.

Charles,...

... Do you have a website? I'd just love to take a look at your "reel".
Shiv.
http://www.charlespapert.com/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0660435/

Thanks Jack!

I always forget that there is a little treasure trove of complete shots over at steadishots.org (where you can also see many of the true legends of our occupation's work).

Mine are here:

http://www.steadishots.org/shots_operator.cfm?opID=10

Hey Charles, your thankyou video is frigging hilarious. Your just as good in front of the lens as you are behind it.

Hey Charles, your thankyou video is frigging hilarious. Your just as good in front of the lens as you are behind it.

Yeah, Chazzie, that was hilarious! Can we see you spin balance? LOL

Chas,

OK, so you can act...a little. The video is correct about the steadicam operator getting a lot of attention. About the girls, well maybe not but yes on the attention.

Good to watch.

Tery
Indicam

BWAHAHAHAHAA!!!! Charles, that Thank-you video is HILLARIOUS!

"He's gotta be a 3-second guy" had me quite literally in tears. I think I just woke up half the neighborhood laughing. Oh my tummy hurts.

- Mikko

Haw, haw, haw! What a riot... the "Garrett Brown thank you" clip from the Scrubs set had me in stitches. Now I just have to figure out what to put under his name as a custom user title... Chazzie, Three second guy? Steadicam is sooo hot? Can't fit all of those in; gotta make a decision.

"Steadicam is so hot" has a backstory...while on a series years ago (and single), a really attractive young extra with whom I'd been chatting sidled up to me just before a take and said "when I first saw you put the rig on this morning, I thought to myself; Steadicam is so hot"! I immediately assumed she was kidding but as she walked away she shot me a smoldering look that said anything but.

I figured that was a come-on worth following up, but they wrapped background soon after and I never saw her again. She probably married the Steadicam operator on the next set she worked on...

For those of you experiencing problems with the Merlin and small rig stabilization, try taking a Tai Chi Chu'an course from your local martial arts organization. This will help with balance and coordination.
You might also consider visitng a chiropractor or a Rolfer (no, not a Golfer), to determine how your posture and stance can be corrected.