Went from Pana's to Sony's, Cleaned heads before switching, yadee-yadee-yadee, aside from the average dropouts 1-2 per hr tape, I've noticed that on half of them, If I recapture a second time I can get rid of them...anyone else...(using Pana 63MQ's and Sony HDV DV's). Gary

if you can recap without the dropout, then its not a camera related dropout..it's a capture error.

i've had very few using sony tapes. it's a single gop pause in the source tape that happens during the recording. usually in bumpy or humid conditions.

I suggest cleaning cassette compartment with duster holding camera upside down. Dust particles inside your camera could be the culprit. Just be careful not to apply too much pressure. Test blow in the air first to make sure it does not spit any liquid.

I clean my camera this way after every few hours of work, especially in dusty environments. If eye can catch something, your camera can too.

Thanks guys, Eric, good point...I'm currently running some more test as we speak..I report later. Good night. Gary

Also look at what else is running in the house/office when you're capturing.

An air conditioning unit or fridge switching on or off can cause a momentary sag/surge/spike which can sometimes trigger frame drop.

Funny I just did a switch from panny to sony because of audio dropouts. The sony tapes are working much better, but I did use the pans for almost 2 years without problems. I wondered what happened?

Hi guys,

I realized that I am having problems with my camera also. I have always used Pan AMQ tapes, however I did send the camera in for service yesterday . I've been cleaning the head,used compressed air and...

interesting enough I tested the camera by connecting it directly to TV and it paused (Dropframe) during playback???

Will see how it goes!

Matthew

I use pana and FUJI tape, but both have drops.

Now I use Sony HDV tape (and Sony Premium .-) ) and both are ok :-) .

Which Sony's are you using, I don't know the model number but their is a pro-tape (about $15.00) which I haven't tried...the ones I'm using are in the $9.00 range. Gary...and do they work better

i use hdv and excellence in the A1. i use cheapo premium in the HV20.
they are all fine. i'd also suggest using the 30/60/63 minute tapes. i find those extended 80+ minute ones suspect. People report more dropouts with extended tapes as well.

The 80 min tapes are much thinner material and can be much more subject to stretching, pitch variance, etc over time. The 60's and 63's are the way to go.

if you can recap without the dropout, then its not a camera related dropout..it's a capture error.

I don't agree. I've had some dropouts with my hc1 and some of them can be captured again correctly, some cannot be. But none of them happen because of my pc.

I am receiving 80 minute Sony tapes today, so I can to a fair test against the panny before this weekend's weddings.

I have used panny 80 minute tapes for 2 years without the amount of dropouts that I am receiving that forced me to change tape stock.
Odd thing is my 2nd cam (vx2100)is doing much better with the panny tapes than the pd170.

I prefer 80 minute tapes, so I hope this isn't the real issue for me. I need all the record time I can get. It is hard enough not having 2hr tapes.

Bottom line, seems like a problem with the camera, I've owned Gl's and Sony DSR300's for eight years without a Dropout!...I would think it's a problem with the camera, (I have two A1's both with the same problem) has anyone talked to canon in california and sent their's in and got it to work proplerly. Gary

seems to me that it's more of a tape and hdv format issue. i've had the same ratio of drop outs on the hv20. do other brand hdv cams have dropout?

hdv is a highly compressed gop codec. one small glitch and 10-15 frames are gone. with dv, it's one frame that's easily edited out.. and i've had plenty of those with canon, jvc, and sony cams.

i have shot hundreds of tapes now with hdv content on the a1 and hv20.
my drop out rate is probably 1 gop drop per 5 hours.

regarding some other comments made above. i define "dropout" as the camera freezing for one gop and never putting those missing frames to tape. they are not there. if you can recap and get those frames, then it's not drop out. it's a capture issue. whether it's your cam, your cable, or your system..it's a capture issue.

i've never imported with the A1, I use the HV20. It's 100% on capturing the
the content that's on the tape without any error on both HDV and downconverting to SD.

if your A1 is freezing like that during the import process when the content is indeed on that tape.. then yeah, that's an issue, but it's not in the recording process.

I don't agree. I've had some dropouts with my hc1 and some of them can be captured again correctly, some cannot be. But none of them happen because of my pc.

If you have a "dropout" upon capture but then can do it again and it captures OK, then it's not a dropout. It's an issue between the computer and the camera. Could be a firewire cable, or something else. But it's not a dropout. If there's a dropout on the tape it's permanent.

I've shot more than 50 hours of tapes with my XH A1, and am familiar with footage from 2 others in town and none of us has seen a dropout at all. Using Panasonic AMQ tapes.

I too have been experiencing what seems like "dropout" issues with the XHA1 and Panasonic AY-DVPQs and MQs. The MQs say right on the housing "for HDV" so I thought I should at least be OK with them...

I first noticed the problem this summer while on a remote international shoot using only the PQs. The biggest problems seem to occur on the first ten minutes of each tape where I would get dozens of dropouts. I had gotten these tapes from a vender that I had never used before, and when I tested tapes from my regular vender when I got home, with no apparent problems, I chalked it up to a grey market tape stock issue. But, I just got back from another shoot, using the MQ tape from my regular supplier and while some of the tapes are capturing without a glitch, others are showing 20 - 25 errors a tape. The strange thing is if I capture the tape again, I get about the same amount of errors, but not necessarily in the same spots!

I question the statement that it can be blamed on a capture issue, cable, or hard drive speed, etc. My software will stop the auto capture process when that happens.... Mine keeps on capturing, simply making a divide in the clips as though it was a new clip, loosing of course about 5 seconds of material. Not so critical on B-roll, but not nice during interviews ….

If I use the camera to capture, the flip out screen on the camera, as well as the confirm monitor on the computer, goes beige at the same point as the glitch, indicating that it is a playback issue, not a capture issue. The really strange thing is that on the problem tapes, it does not happen at the same points on the tape if I capture it the second time.... So, while you may be right that it cannot technically be a "dropout" on the tape, something else is causing “intermittent interruptions” or "breaks" during playback on some tapes, where the problem is repeatable, but not on the exact frame.

Someone else said that they were having the same problem with 2 A1's which makes me concerned about my next purchase. I have another international shoot coming up where I need a reliable system. I doub't there will be time to send my unit in for repairs before I go. I don't mind ordering another A1 as they are cheap enough, and I have come to like the camera and the images I am getting, when everything works. I just don't want to order another one if this problem seems to be symptomatic of this particular camera.... Enough people are reporting the problem that it makes me suspicious ….

Frank

If you simply play back the tapes in the camera, watching in your viewfinder or flipout screen, do you see any problem?

OK, On closer inspection, the breaks do hapen in the same places, almost every time, not as random as I previously reported. When just playung back, the scene freezes over the area of the break. It looks like a tape issue, or a dirty head or something. It is funny that I never had one dropuout for the first 3 months of using the camera and now I am getting quite a few.

What are the recomendations? Send it in for cleaning? Switch to Sony HDV tapes? Clean my self with cleaning tape and forced air as some here suggested?

thanks

frank

I'd use the cleaning tape first. Read the directions and use it according to the directions--overuse is not good, although sometimes if the gunk doesn't go away they may say to use it a second time.

Did you use the cleaning tape when you first got the camera? That's one of those things you're supposed to do. I 've been using Panasonic AMQ tapes and haven't seen a dropout yet. I run the cleaning tape after I've been shooting in dusty situations and after about every 50 hours of recording.

I don't agree. I've had some dropouts with my hc1 and some of them can be captured again correctly, some cannot be. But none of them happen because of my pc.

some drop outs i find are recorded ones [ie they show all the time where recorded on]smetimes i get play back ones that just show up but if the tape is replayed over the same spot do not show again,this is with sony premiums as the amount i get has not tempted me to hd tapes as of yet. the play back drop outs are nothing to do with the pc as it can happen playing to tv as well.

If you have a "dropout" upon capture but then can do it again and it captures OK, then it's not a dropout. It's an issue between the computer and the camera. Could be a firewire cable, or something else. But it's not a dropout. If there's a dropout on the tape it's permanent.

It's a CAMERA dropout even if it doesn't do it again. The reading isn't always perfect. But the issue is not the computer in this case. This is isn't your simple firewire connection problem etc, the dropout is EXACTLY the same as when the camera couldn't read a frame or two. Meaning the GOP is broken but audio continues fully etc.

the play back drop outs are nothing to do with the pc as it can happen playing to tv as well.

Exactly! That's what I meant.

Is this dropout issue normal with the HDV format - just something you have to live with, or are some cameras better then others? Form now on, when shooting interviews domestically, I think that I will be covering myself by firewiring to a backup deck. But, on my international shoots where I often shoot in remote villages, that may not be a good option.... A second battery opperated camera, perhaps??? I hate to have to carry a second camera around .... Getting the one, along with my still cameras, laptop, hard drives on to airline carryon, is becoming more and more of a challenge!

Hi again,

Well I went in to Canon Service in Toronto today to pick up my camera. They told me that the problem wasn't with the camera but with the tape and that they cleaned the head, which is very hard for me to BELIEVE!!
They also told me not to use DAMEGED tape in the camera, first of all I always use brand new tapes secondlly which idiot will use a damaged tape with his/her camera.

I am going to run some tests in the next few days and will let you all know.

By the way should I change tapes to Sony or to stick with Panasonic AMQs??????????
Let me know guys!!


Matthew

Did you change to Sony or stick with Panasonic AMQs?

Did you use the cleaning tape when you first got the camera? That's one of those things you're supposed to do.


Well since this thread was resurrected, I thought I'd make a comment as stated before by several people on here. If there was anything to the "use a cleaning tape before 1st use", I wonder why manufacturers haven't included that in manuals or at least some sort of additional literature.

Just curious.

Bill

I found out that the original Canon HDV tapes are all made by Sony. Therefore, I changed my tapes from Panasonic to Sony HDV tapres and Iam very happy no more problems.


Thanks
Matthew