Does the Blackmagic Design intensity Pro capture 4:2:2 (1080 x 1920) over component? The website is not clear about component capabilities.

Does the Blackmagic Design intensity Pro capture 4:2:2 (1080 x 1920) over component? The website is not clear about component capabilities.

Yes. They explicitly say "4:2:2" everywhere, even in places that don't specify HDMI or component. The implication is that both are the same.

The REAL question is what the bit depth is for the A-D conversion. No one, not even BMD seems to know.

the resolution of the ADC is 10 bit (NXP TDA9975)
http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/new_parts/200502/1080824.php

it is used for both HDMI and analog component.

However I doubt the driver passes through that bit depth (likely just 8), it would overlap with their more expensive pro cards.
I could be wrong, I didn't bother to check as I don't have 10 bit signal sources.

Thank You for the information. I didn't want to make assumptions about component capabilities.

I did a test using Adobe CS3 to capture analog component 1280 x 720 8bit 60p through a BM studio card, and at the same time captured 30p to tape, them imported through 1394 port into Avid Liquid. The difference is very noticeable. I posted a mp4 file, because of file bandwidth issues, to show people what they can expect to get out of this combination. Even the HDV portion of the mp4 has more resolution then the analog component capture.

http://www.portstanleynews.com/TV/JVCTest.mp4

I will do another test with a Canon HV20 to check the difference of HDV vs HDMI

As several of us have been discussing on a JVC thread, Doug's results would seem to suggest that analog via Blackmagic does not yield good results.

How this info relates to the capabilities of the BM A to D chip I have no idea.

No idea if this is a camera related issue or a BM related issue or what. BM never responded to any questions on the subject.

Might be great, might not.

That footage captured analog component Originally Posted by Doug Harvey is bad . If this is what I can expect of this combination, I will keep my money. Does anyone have any other samples, good or bad of this combination? That way I can Identify if it's the setup or the operator. ( no disrespect to Doug). I would hate to base my decision on one example.

Maybe you'd have more luck getting an answer from BM than Bill Ravens and I have had.

Of course there could be a million reasons, like noise on the cables, connector issues, bad D to A in the camera, - or bad A to D in the card. Or any combination of the above All of these seem a tad unlikely, but it has to be due to something.

I finally got a reply from BlackMagic

They said that so far as they know their A to D should produce excellent results and they seem really surprised that there might be an issue with it. They also said that in their experience good cameras have excellent D to A and they really doubt that that's the issue.

So the plot thickens.

Oh where oh where has the quality gone, oh where oh where can it be? With it's price quite high and it's output so short, oh bring back the answer to me.

Or something like that:<))

That footage captured analog component Originally Posted by Doug Harvey is bad . If this is what I can expect of this combination, I will keep my money. Does anyone have any other samples, good or bad of this combination? That way I can Identify if it's the setup or the operator. ( no disrespect to Doug). I would hate to base my decision on one example.

I, too, would like to see more tests. Doug said he captured 1280x720p60 over analog component, but that means it was converted (on the fly?) from the native signal of 1920x1080 60i. Could it have been the interlace-to-60p? Or the down-rez? What codec and bitrate did he capture?

I asked the guys at BlackMagic if they had any tests they could post - from any kind of decent camera. Haven't heard from them yet, though.

I think there are quite a few of us who would really like to know what's going on - it all seems so unlikely that quality would suffer so badly.

I asked the guys at BlackMagic if they had any tests they could post - from any kind of decent camera. Haven't heard from them yet, though.

I think there are quite a few of us who would really like to know what's going on - it all seems so unlikely that quality would suffer so badly.

I have in fact tested the Intensity Pro over component a couple of months ago - this was from a a Sony Z1E cam. This was an engineering test so I wasn't looking for PQ specifically. I don't have any clips to show, but it didn't look bad, just a bit softer compared to a HDMI source.

I just received my Intensity Pro and installed it. I then connected my XH A1 (PAL) with the component cable.... The BM Capture Tool didn´t get a Signal, neither did Premiere Pro 2. I tried a while but it wouldn´t work.
If you guys could help me with that i could then upload some images captured via component.

Some more Infos:
got the latest Intensity driver of the BM page.
My System:
Core 2 Extreme
Asus P5B Deluxe
2GB Ram
7900 GT 512MB
loads of HD Space

I own the big brother, the Decklink HD Extreme.. component captured fine - turned the camera on, plugged in the cables to the camera, to the computer, voila.. computer saw it.

Had to tinker with settings on the computer's end (specifiy what the signal was, etc) but it worked. It was in April, so I can't really tell you what I did - too long ago - but it worked. The Intensity Pro should/will too.

I own the big brother, the Decklink HD Extreme.. component captured fine - turned the camera on, plugged in the cables to the camera, to the computer, voila.. computer saw it.

Had to tinker with settings on the computer's end (specifiy what the signal was, etc) but it worked. It was in April, so I can't really tell you what I did - too long ago - but it worked. The Intensity Pro should/will too.


That sounds good, but actually I didn´t find a menu where I could specify the Signal....or if it should use component or HDMI as Input.

Well finally I got the Intensity Pro running. Was actually my fault, i just didn´t look in the BMD directory to find the config tool ;)

So here are my first test images:

The hdv files are captured via firewire, the component via component (that sounds funny lol)
These both are captured from a tape that I shot this summer for my so-called "Abschlussproduktion".
I saved the frames in PPro 2 as tiff files...deinterlaced them in Photoshop and resized the hdv files to 1920x1080....saved to jpg.

I also uploaded the tif files. they are not deinterlaced and the hdv stills are still 1440x1080...

http://www.kornflex.netprovide.com/dvinfo/menu.htm

hmmm....doesn't look like the same images for comparison. To my eye, the firewire capture seems more detailed. There seems to be significant difference in shadow/highlight lighting, and a shift in color balance?

So here are my first test images:

Wonderful! Thank you, Rolf. Your test clearly shows that the Doug Harvey's poor results are not systemic. You've put my mind at ease and solidified my plans to order the Intensity Pro.

It would be neat to see some tethered clips, i.e. live input directly to the computer captured to an uncompressed or lossless codec. That would more clearly show the difference between HDV-over-component and uncompressed-over-component.

Wonderful! Thank you, Rolf. Your test clearly shows that the Doug Harvey's poor results are not systemic. You've put my mind at ease and solidified my plans to order the Intensity Pro.

It would be neat to see some tethered clips, i.e. live input directly to the computer captured to an uncompressed or lossless codec. That would more clearly show the difference between HDV-over-component and uncompressed-over-component.

I will do that in the next days ;) but I can only capture to the BMD MJPEG codec, got no RAID for uncompressed YUV.

The component footage is brighter than the hdv footage, but details and sharpness are nearly the same... I will try to find out if this is the camera or the Intensity Pro that makes the footage "burn out".

I will do that in the next days ;)

I'm in your debt.


but I can only capture to the BMD MJPEG codec, got no RAID for uncompressed YUV.

You might try capturing just a few seconds of uncompressed. It should be small enough to fit in Windows's write cache.

If that doesn't work (this is *Windows*, after all), you might try a software RAM disk, like this one: http://users.compaqnet.be/cn021945/RAMDisk/ramdiskfree.htm

It looks like there's color inaccuracy from decoding the material incorrectly (mixup between Rec. 601 and 709 luma coefficients).

And there is also the blowout going on.

it could be too that one capture is on 16-235 level and the other one on 0-254 level, then the difference in black and white values.
(ou can check in a paint program to see what are RGB values)

It looks like there's color inaccuracy from decoding the material incorrectly (mixup between Rec. 601 and 709 luma coefficients).

And there is also the blowout going on.


So is that my mistake? Can I change these settings?

@Daniel:

I´ll try my best ;)

So is that my mistake? Can I change these settings?
I don't think it's your mistake. Properly-engineered equipment should figure it out automatically.

I'm not familiar enough with your camera, HDV codec on your system, and the Intensity to say if there's any settings that could be changed.

Though you can try a different HDV/mpeg2 codec... some of them will get it wrong. Though that's only if the HDV footage (e.g. not the Intensity) footage that is wrong.

2- The blowout looks like it's happening because the analog gain on the footage is too high... perhaps the Intensity has some proc amp controls that could adjust the signal to bars.

Component is soft, btw. I had three 50 foot cables for component, and it was soft :(

So I got a nanoConnect for HDMI to HD-SDI.. much sharper.

Component is soft, btw. I had three 50 foot cables for component, and it was soft :(

What do you think of component over short distances, like 10 feet? Rolf's stills show that component as enough resolution for me, that's for sure. (I hate interlaced video, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.)

I'd test it, but I'd think it'd be great.

When I used my 50' cable, it was nice at first glance, but not as sharp as HDV (I always thought I had the focus off, but it was just soft.. nothing I could do) - and couldn't get it as sharp in post. 50' is long though. 1080i over analog is fine ... I'll do component out to my HDTV once I get one, so it's not poor solution. So, YES - Do it if you can.. 4:2:2 beats 4:2:0 hands down, AND you'll skip HDV compression. Just make sure you use a good codec when importing.. stay far away from DVCPRO HD. I'd recommend JPEG or ProRes 422 if you're near a Macintosh.

2- The blowout looks like it's happening because the analog gain on the footage is too high... perhaps the Intensity has some proc amp controls that could adjust the signal to bars.

Yeah that could be the Problem, but there is no such feature... at least not in the prefernce settings of the card.
It would really be nice if a BMD Guy was following this thread and could help.
If I´m not the only one with this Problem, we could tell BMD. Then they could update the Firmware or Driver if they find the problem that causes this.

I´ve just started uploading some video files and will post the links as soon as a clip is online.

In my opinion the MJPEG capture directly from the cam (not from tape) is at least as good as the hdv capture (firewire)... no more problem with parts burning out.

Rolf, I'm not familiar with your Camera and how it outputs the footage
but it may work somewhat like the Canon HV20...

Ingesting footage using a HV20 and the Intensity card....

The footage is 1440x1080 if from tape, via firewire ( not intensity )
The footage is 1920x1080 if from tape, via HDMI ( Intensity )
The footage is 1920x1080 if from live, via HDMI ( Intensity )

As shown above, the HV20 will upconvert the tape output of 1440 x 1080
to 1920 x 1080... it has nothing to do with the Intensity card....
The conversion is in Camera....

again, not sure how your camera handles the output........

Here´s the first clip:
captured directly in MJPEG with auto exposure...

http://www.kornflex.netprovide.com/dvinfo/menu.htm

Rolf, I'm not familiar with your Camera and how it outputs the footage
but it may work somewhat like the Canon HV20...

Ingesting footage using a HV20 and the Intensity card....

The footage is 1440x1080 if from tape, via firewire ( not intensity )
The footage is 1920x1080 if from tape, via HDMI ( Intensity )
The footage is 1920x1080 if from live, via HDMI ( Intensity )

As shown above, the HV20 will upconvert the tape output of 1440 x 1080
to 1920 x 1080... it has nothing to do with the Intensity card....
The conversion is in Camera....

again, not sure how your camera handles the output........


I got the Canon XH A1... it has no HDMI, im using the component signal, so the signal is converted in the camera from digital to analog... the intensity pro then makes it digital again...so it could be the intensity PROs fault.

By specifying the signal signal, I mean resolution and frequency (hertz): i.e 1080i vs 720p or/and 60i vs 50i vs 23.98 vs 25p, etc. The camera's output is fine - just make sure the computer matches whatever signal the camera is outputting.

Both HDMI and Component will output the same signal that the camera is set to - just one technology is digital and one is analog.

By specifying the signal signal, I mean resolution and frequency (hertz): i.e 1080i vs 720p or/and 60i vs 50i vs 23.98 vs 25p, etc. The camera's output is fine - just make sure the computer matches whatever signal the camera is outputting.

Both HDMI and Component will output the same signal that the camera is set to - just one technology is digital and one is analog.

Yes I know, Output is 1080i 25fps and Input is specified as 1080i 25fps...

the hdv clip captured from tape via firewire is online.
I recorded it just a few moments after the composite capture, the camera settings weren´t changed... iris on auto

www.kornflex.netprovide.com/dvinfo/menu.htm

Last but not least: I uploaded YUV 422 capture, i was just able to capture some frames so I just uploaded a single tiff file. I didn´t change anything at the camera but just closed the iris a little bit more than auto put it. Nothing done in Post. Some interlace lines are visible...


www.kornflex.netprovide.com/dvinfo/menu.htm

Some reviews state that the BM MJPEG codec softens the data. I have the BM Intensity pro just sitting there waiting for a new computer with PCIx .

Thansk for the OP. And to those doing tests. As i'm one looking to get an Intensity Pro and hoped the Component capturing would be at least pretty close to HDMI. Just a quick Question from owners... can you chose any kind of codec to capture to just like most capturing cards?

Thansk for the OP. And to those doing tests. As i'm one looking to get an Intensity Pro and hoped the Component capturing would be at least pretty close to HDMI. Just a quick Question from owners... can you chose any kind of codec to capture to just like most capturing cards?

You can choose between:
1. uncompressed (that is YUV 422 8Bit for the intensity pro)
2. MJPEG compression

that for the supported input formats ;)

I captured in Cineform from component. The picture was shifted to the left (?!) in the HDLink window, but fine otherwise.

Depending on which application you choose to capture, yes. The application that Blackmagic Design supplies has less choices than using FCP Studio. So yes, you can get a good selection to choose from.

Depending on which application you choose to capture, yes. The application that Black magic supplies has less choices than using FCP Studio. So yes, you can get a good selection to choose from.

Robert you´re right, I forgot that I could capture in PPro...
So there are lots of codecs.

Hi Rolf (and all of you).
I just bought an XH-A1 (for an upcoming job I'll shoot in SD). Later I'll shoot hdv and I'm completely new to that.
Advantages with BM Intensity only relates to DIRECT capture (no hdv taping)?

I'd like to shoot hdv on tape BUT then move to a better intermediate codec for editing. I'm on FCP, so Cineform doesn't seem the better solution (recently implemented for Mac users, but looks quite complicated). Neither Prores 422 cause I need a compromise in system/disks requirements.

Suggestions appreciated!
Dankeschoen

Hi Rolf (and all of you).
I just bought an XH-A1 (for an upcoming job I'll shoot in SD). Later I'll shoot hdv and I'm completely new to that.
Advantages with BM Intensity only relates to DIRECT capture (no hdv taping)?

Yes, it relates to direct capture. If you go to Tape first you get maximum HDV quality.

I'd like to shoot hdv on tape BUT then move to a better intermediate codec for editing. I'm on FCP, so Cineform doesn't seem the better solution (recently implemented for Mac users, but looks quite complicated). Neither Prores 422 cause I need a compromise in system/disks requirements.

Suggestions appreciated!
Dankeschoen


Can´t really help you there... I convert my HDV footage to BMD MJPEG codec for editing (after Firewire capture->quality is better than component capture from tape). But the MJPEG files take a lot more space than the mpeg2 files so it doesn´t help you. I think in FCP Prores is the solution to go (even if it takes HD space).

A few months ago I did a three camera shoot - over 2 hours - using the Sony counterpart to the XH-A1 camera, the Z1U and FX1 (and one more). Shot in HDV, imported and edited in HDV, and for the final render, I moved the 1440x1080 HDV timeline to a higher-end codec - in this case, Motion JPEG.

While it was shot and mostly edited in HDV, I did move the project to a better codec but only at the last step - all filters, effects and titling were applied in this new MJPEG sequence. Because 2 hours of footage from three cameras led to a LOT of footage, only HDV made sense in terms of storing RAW footage. And it was just fine.

The final product of all this work went to a regaular standard def DVD, but was also future proofed since I had done it all in HD.

So shooting, editing and exporting HDV is fine, especially since you don't have the HD space to do anymore than that. A final set could be like I suggested. If I were to do this workflow again, I'd use Prores 422 as the final codec.

the hdv clip captured from tape via firewire is online.
I recorded it just a few moments after the composite capture, the camera settings weren´t changed... iris on auto. I uploaded YUV 422 capture, [...] I just uploaded a single tiff file. I didn´t change anything at the camera but just closed the iris a little bit more than auto put it. Nothing done in Post. Some interlace lines are visible...


Thanks again, Rolf. I indulged my inner pixel peeper. Here are three 100% crops; one each of HDV, MJPEG, and YUV 422; for comparison:

http://thebrownings.name/video/misc/mjpeg-yuv-comparison.png

The change in lighting and exposure reduce the value of the test a little compared to one done with manual exposure, manual focus, constant lighting, 0db gain, zoomed in to a sharp focal length, and stopped down to a sharp aperture (f/4.0).

If the difference in resolution of the images is not due to one of those factors, then it's pretty clear that MPEG-over-component edges out HDV-over-firewire, and YUV-over-component beats them both by a nice margin.

Thanks for the responses to my Q's. Just one more, i am a PC user and with vegas. Will it be able to capture using the BM?

I'm not sure if this info resides in this thread, but how does the component capture look on the Intensity Pro verse capturing with the Intensity's HDMI input?

It was stated early on - that the component in on the Studio card does not look good.

By the way, here's the response I got back from BM regarding the question of Intensity component quality verses the Studio card:

"Actually there will be a large difference. First and formost the Intensity
Pro is using a newer A->D converter. Secondly the HD Studio has this
problem as a matter of a driver bug and not a hardware issue. It hasn't
gotten fixed as of yet because the product is on a discontinued status and
updates are going towards the active products.

Perhaps you can set up a demo with your local dealer of the product. I am
sure you will be quite happy with the quality."

This response is good and bad news. The good news is that the Intensity Pro should have decent component input quality. The bad news is they knew there was a driver bug with the Studio card and never addressed it.