I have concluded my tape research and have chosen to stick with Fuji Tapes.

My GL2 is brand new (only a couple of hours worth of shooting) and Fuji was the first tape used in the camera. However, being somewhat new to this level of camera equipment, I did not realize until recently that you are not supposed to mix tapes.

Bottom line: I have used Fuji and TDK tapes in the camera. Because the camera has had such little usage I am wondering if these circumstances warrant a head cleaning. I have not had any problems with mosaics or stripes and I don't want to clean them unless it is highly advised to do so. My hunch is that I won't have to clean as long as I stick with Fuji going forward.

Thanks,
Alex

I use Fuji tapes also, they are great.

Apparently, from what I read, it's just a matter of mixing "dry" and "wet" lubricants, that some tapes use. As far as I know, the only 2 tapes that use "wet" lubricant, are Sony's, and one kind of the Panasonics. Also, JVC tape, is identical to Fuji tape, and to add to that, most other tape (One kind of Panasonic, TDK, Maxell) appear to be manufactured by Fuji also...

Your camera will be fine...just stick with the Fuji's...

Alex,
I think you may be OK without cleaning, but if you notice any stripes or mosaics... then pop in the DRY head cleaner. Play it for about 10 seconds... thats all.

Thanx,

Thanks to both of you, that's what I was hoping to hear.

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex

Apparently, from what I read, it's just a matter of mixing "dry" and "wet" lubricants, that some tapes use. As far as I know, the only 2 tapes that use "wet" lubricant, are Sony's, and one kind of the Panasonics. -->>>

Hi all,

I have come late to the discussion. Can anyone tell me which one kind of Panasonic tape uses the "wet" lubricant? I am currently using Panasonic tapes but would like to switch to TDK.

-neal

Why TDK? Because they are inexpensive?

Yes. I read somewhere that TDK made decent tapes, no? If these tapes aren't very good, please let me know.

In case I don't switch to TDK, but stick to Panasonic tapes, which Panasonic tapes are the wet ones, and which are the dry ones? Before I found this discussion, I picked up a new pack of Panasonic tapes, but they aren't the same as the ones I had been using. I am wondering if I should return them and try to find my original tapes.

-neal

Wet lub is the standard for consumer MiniDV. A number of years ago ther was an issue between Sony and other brand "wet' lubs, this was resolved in about 1998 or so .

The high end Panasonic tape (marked S-AME technology) is the so called dry lub tape, rumored to have been developd to ensure compatability with their DVCPro format tape in Panasonic VCRs.

Neal, I have some good tape links here. As I find more, I add them to this list.

http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

Thank you everyone for the information. It is very helpful.

I think I will stick to the Panasonic tapes, especially since I have a Panasonic cam.

My next question: I have used 6 tapes from Panasonic that come in packaging marked "DVCassette, LinearPlus, DVM60, ME".

I found a website that sells these tapes, and they are AY-DVM60
http://www.supermediastore.com/panasonicminidvtape.html

When I went back to the electronics store to pick up more tapes, I could not find the tapes with the same packaging, but found Panosonic tapes in packaging "DVC, DVM60, ME, AY-DVM60EJ3P "

Are these the same tapes? If they are not, would it be safe to use the new tapes? Does anyone know if the lubricants are the same?

I would understand if you guys get frustrated with my questions, but I am a true newcomer to video and MiniDV. Any help you can send my way would be much appreciated.

-neal

A search will turn up some recent threads on tapes. According to two different Panasonic reps ALL Panasonic Master tapes use the same lube. I think it was Ken who also pointed out that Panasonic and Fuji tapes are made by the same manufacturer (??).

The best advice I've seen on the subject is still to pick one brand and stick with it.

I think I am comfortable using the new tapes. They might even be the same tapes in new packaging.

-neal

Some Panas are wet, some are dry. Some of Pana's tape are made by Fuji. Fuji is a company that makes high quality media storage. Check out what they make on their website. Fuji = quality. :)

Ok, now I have conflicting info. One says all Panasonic tapes use the same lubrication. One says some use wet, some use dry.

Does anyone happen to use the Panasonic AY-DVM60 tapes?

If it doesn't say on one the links on that page I provided, or on the tape package, I'd contact Pana Tech for your answer. That's what I do: go for the horse's mouth.

After I posted, I did some hunting on Panasonic's website, and now I am pretty sure that the "new" tapes I have are the same as the old ones, with different packaging. Just in case anyone else is interested, I left out the 2 most important letters in the tape name, the "EJ". So the tapes I have and will be using are the "AY-DVM60EJ" tapes, probably the most basic consumer miniDV tape that Panasonic offers.

Whether this tape uses wet lubrication (which I am guessing it does, because supposedly, only one of the professional quality tapes uses dry) or dry, is now moot, since I won't be switching tapes.

But fyi, I also believe that Panasonic produces tapes with wet lubrications and dry lubrications. From following one of the links on Frank's page, I ended up on Panasonic's FAQ. It indicates that their master level tape uses dry lubrications vs the conventional wet.

Thank everyone for all the help,
Neal

I checked with two vendors (one a sponsor) and they both checked with Panasonic. What the Panasonic rep told them is that ALL Panasonic master tapes use the same lube (PQ and MQ). Whether these two checked with the same Panasonic rep or two different ones (they are on opposite coasts) I don't know.

It still would be really worthwhile to get the definitive answer out of these companies.....

Look at #17 and #20 on the FAQ on Panasonic's website.

http://www.panasonic.com/pbds/subcat/dvproline/DVworld_24qs.html

I'm just reiterating what the rep said - they are all the same, so they would all be dry. I originally asked the question of my tape pushers because I have been primarily using the AY-DVM63MQ (white cases, blue lids, Master series) and want to switch to the less expensive AY-DVM63PQ (black cases). I had already done some switching with no problems. Others on the board have also reported being able to switch between these two Panasonic tapes with no problems.

Unfortunately, there are more myths than truths out there regarding tape and tape stock. Even given my sources I don't claim it to be the corect answer. The only consistent thing I've been told is to avoid mixing Panasonic and Sony but I can't even say for sure that is the correct.

I have to correct my postings on this thread. I have gone back to the original emails and what they say are that the Panasonic MASTER series (MQ and PQ) use the same dry lube. No mention of the consumer grade Panasonic tapes. Sorry for any confusion.

As penance I'm trying to get answers out of some of the other manufacturers (TDK at the moment).

I really don't know which way to believe. I just wanted to share that link to Panasonic's FAQ that I found through Frank's site. (Thanks Frank.)

Until I find out for sure one way or another, I will try to use the same tapes, my lowly Panasonic consumer grade tapes :-)

-neal

The only discrepency with Frank's site is the difference between the PQ and MQ tapes. I have a request into Panasonic to see if I can get yet another opinion. The Panasonic FAQ actually doesn't help one way or another. What it says is true but it doesn't claim that any of the other tapes don't use one lube or another. It just touts it on the Master series. While Panasonic pushes the dry lube aspect of thier Master tapes as being the difference, many of the other tape manufacturers in the table on Frank's site also use dry lube.

I've gone and re-read all of Frank's links plus others and it seems like the only consistent advice is don't mix Sony with anything else.

IF I hear anything from TDK, Fuji or Panasonic I'll post it here.

I've heard from TDK and they refuse to comment. They just say that if you switch tape brands run a cleaning cassette through first.

One source (Brian at Zotz Digital) says that only Sony and TDK are wet - the rest are dry.

Another source (Tape Resources) has a note from TDK saying that their lube is fluorine based and similar to Panasonics.

Now, I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me that the liability risk to these companies is greater by NOT telling rather than being up front at least on the wet/dry issue. I suppose the only way for the companies to know it is safe is to try all the combination of tapes out there...

TDK also said to pick one brand and stick with it - always seems to be good advice unless you run out of tape in some small town who knows where and you have no choice...

This is clearly a case where the video magazines could do a really good job for the public and run some tests - or maybe they would have more success getting the specs out of the companies.

The only disagreement I have with Frank's dvfreak site is on the Panasonic PQ versus MQ tapes. Everything I've been able to find out agrees with his site on wet versus dry except that I've have two Panasonic reps report that PQ and MQ use the same lube. Still waiting to hear back from Panasonic directly though.

While I am normally opposed to class-action lawsuits (the lawyers get rich, the users typically get little) I'm beginning to wonder if that isn't what will be required to get the tape companies to fess up to what they are doing.

Think about it. You don't worry about head clogs from tape incompatibilities in your VCR, your cassette player, your tape backup device, your super-8/digital-8, dvcam or beta unit. Why should mini-DV be any different?

The problem with using tape from a different vendor and getting a head clog is the same as if you normally used Kodak film, tried Fuji once and ended up paying hundreds of dollars to get your camera fixed.

Worse is that the manufacturers won't even give any clue as to whether their product might be compatible! Their only advice (and one to live by for now) - buy one brand and stick with it (though even that may not be true). This seems to be anti-competitive. They aren't forcing you to use their brand but once you start....