View Full Version : D.I.Y. 900-watt CF Lighting Units
Martin Catt September 9th, 2007, 01:18 PM Just finished a pair of these for use in an upcoming documentary project. They've been a spare-time construction project for about three months. Each light has nine 100-watt equivalent daylight-balanced CF lamps. A pair of aluminum 9x9" baking pans nested together form the main housing and reflector assembly. Nine surface-mount phenolic sockets mount to the rear pan, with holes drilled through the second to pass the screw bases of the lamps.
The hard part was making sixteen custom hinges for the barn doors. I looked, but couldn't find a suitable hinge, so I ended up spending a Saturday making them from aluminum angle stock.
The yoke mounts are machined from 1" aluminum bar stock, and the yoke is bent from 1" x .125" aluminum extrusion. The mount from the yoke to the light stand is also machined from 1" aluminum bar.
A standard electronics project box houses the switches, mounted on four stand-offs from the rear pan. This gives a convenient place to wind the 20' electrical cord, and keeps the switchbox cool. I wasn't sure how hot the unit would get, so I decided to play it safe. Both units have been on for over 30 minutes, and only get warm to the touch.
There are two switches, one for on/off, and for high/low. High uses all nine lamps; low uses only five lamps, giving roughly a 1-stop range. The lamps are not dimmable, but the intensity can be tweaked a little by removing individual lamps as needed.
Rough guess of cost is about $50 each for materials, lamps not included. They fit perfectly on a pair of Novatron light stands left over from my still-photo days.
Regards;
Martin
Joe Bowey September 9th, 2007, 04:58 PM I'm glad I came upon this post. I had just changed the lightbulbs in my ceilinf fan to cfs from costco and noticed it not ony being brighter but the color on my table seemed more natural. So I was thinking of making a light set also. I am doing a doc and really can't afforad nice lights so this might be a option.
How does it look on camera? I use the jvdhd100 camera. Also have you made a soft box for it?
Excellent DIY.
Richard Andrewski September 9th, 2007, 05:25 PM Nice job. Did you have the yoke mounts made somewhere else or do you have some machining tools? Looks like an expensive job.
We engineered a part called the "Universal Yoke Adapter" to make things like this easier on people...
http://www.coollights.biz/female-universal-yoke-adapter-p-42.html
Picture is also enclosed below. We made them in 1/4-20 and 5/16-18 sizes. These just basically rivet or screw to the side of your case with the outer two mounting holes, then add a clamping bar or T handle which screws into the inner threaded hole and a rubber washer for some added grip and braking action and you have a great yoke mount. Here's a video describing their use:
http://www.coollights.biz/wordpress/archives/22
A few other suggestions for some wanting to try a project like this.
Those spirals function best with a bit of room around them. If they are too close to each other, the light output is not as efficient as with some space around them. Thus, use a bigger baking pan.
For the barndoors, I showed a method to make these in my Cool Lights Video Magazine earlier in the year:
http://www.coollights.biz/wordpress/archives/21
Just use around 22 to 24 gauge and make a template.
One way to make this unit its own "softbox" would be the following additions (although it is already very "soft" because of the surface area). First, get some thin gauge mirrored/polished aluminum and put that on the doors with rubber cement. Alanod makes the best grade known as "Miro" but just check with them and find where you can buy a small quantity for your project(s):
http://www.alanod.com/Miro/index.html
We use Miro in our reflectors and it really is the best material. Just cut it to the exact size of the doors. If the aluminum is too hard to find, the next best thing is to use reflective mylar like this--which is a bit easier to work with too:
http://www.hydroponics.net/c/54
Once the barndoors are coated with such a surface, they become your intensifiers or added reflectors then. You've just increased the surface area emanating light now. There are some gaps though in between the barndoors which make it not a perfect larger surface.
Going a step further, and making some aluminum corner pieces that velcro on the barndoors thus making them one continuous area is the best idea. The inner surface of these corner pieces should also be coated with the mirrored aluminum or mylar too of course. Now you've made up for the gaps in the larger surface area and have a very intense and uninterrupted light emanation area.
Next, have someone you know who sews, make up a square or rectangular flozier out of some diffusion silk like this:
1/2 stop silk: http://www.rosebrand.com/product747/45-China-Silk-FR.aspx?cid=162&idx=1020&tid=1&info=Silk
Full stop silk:
http://www.rosebrand.com/product1277/60-Poly-Silk-NFR.aspx?cid=162&idx=475&tid=1&info=Silk
A flozier is basically just a square or rectangle of such material with elastic around the edges so it will stay put on the barndoors. You may find though that with CFL spirals such as the 30w to 40w N:Vision brand from Home Depot that there's not much need for added diffusion.
Finally, with an adequate amount of switches, you have your poor person's "dimmer" to bring down the intensity such that extra diffusion wouldn't be necessary for that use either. Hope this helps.
Martin Catt September 9th, 2007, 09:33 PM Whew! After over a dozen views, SOMEBODY finally comments. I was worried you all were too busy snickering.
Joe: No softbox yet. As Richard said, the light is "soft" by nature, coming from a distributed source, rather than a pinpoint source. I've got a full set of umbrellas and bounce cards from the studio flash kit, and I expect I'll adapt them as needed. Because the lights run much cooler than I even expected, I can just clothespin scrim or diffusor material across the barn doors, or hang a cloth in front of the light as needed.
Richard: Pretty much made everything myself. I have a small lathe and milling machine (tabletop sized), plus free access to a full-sized Rockwell engine lathe and milling machine at a friend's house. Expensive? Well, as far as machining time, think astronomical. The materials came out of the scrap bin.
These were essentially a one-off prototype with individual parts machined twice to make a pair. Parts were milled out of solid bar stock, and yes, it's extremely over-engineered. If I decide to make a few more, I'll go with casting aluminum parts (I've also got a small foundry setup). These were to fill a short-term need and find out where the weak points in the design were. The point is, when I'm on a shoot, the last thing I have to worry about is the lights coming apart or not working.
The barn door design is up for modification after I field-test it for a while. I went with black doors specifically after trying bright aluminum. Shiny doors work well on a focused source, but with a broad source like this, it actually scattered more light where I didn't want it. These are made from .040" aluminum, bead-blasted, primed, and painted flat black on one side. I want to be able to cut the light spill without having to use bunches of gobo's.
Baking pans unfortunately only come in standardized sizes, 9x9" being one of them. I would have preferred a 12x12", but they don't make them in that size, and the cost to make one in materials and time didn't look like a good return on investment. There IS a standard-sized serving tray used in food service that's rectangular and about 9x18", plus it's stainless steel. I may take a swag at another set of lights using those if I decide I need more.
The first design I considered used nine of the rotary-switch socket fixtures, one for each bulb, with the switches coming out the back of the pan. I decided it looked a little too cheesey, despite the ability to switch individual lamps, and went with the hi/low setup. Bat-handle toggle switches are fairly indestructable, and should hold up to being dragged around from location to location.
Actually, I want to make an aluminum eggcrate to help "throw" the light a little better. For now, though, it's nice to have 1.8kw of light on demand.
Martin
Greg Boston September 9th, 2007, 11:02 PM Nice job, Martin! The only suggestion from me would be to paint the exteriors flat black also. That eliminates any unwanted reflections and I feel it would give them an additional touch of professional appearance.
-gb-
Gary Moses September 10th, 2007, 06:00 AM Wouldn't it have been a lot easier and less expensive just ot buy one of these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Continuous-Lighting-Fotodiox-Pro-Cool-Light-900-NEW_W0QQitemZ160114386643QQihZ006QQcategoryZ3860QQcmdZViewItem
I bought 2 and have been using them for almost a year. It has 2 circuits, one I use for 5500 degree CFL's and the other circuit for 3500 CFL's.
Just a thought.
Gary
Richard Andrewski September 10th, 2007, 09:24 AM I would swear I've seen other larger sized baking pans at a restaurant supply. I used to live in Houston and there was Ace Mart on I-10 which had a lot of different sizes I think. I used a round one for a similar idea to this before for fitting in a softbox.
On your casting setup, is that sand casting you're using? Sounds like you're setup for some serious metal work there. I guess you need to do quite a bit of machining on the cast parts if they're sand cast types right? I've become pretty familiar with all these casting types now and while die casting is the ultimate, it's also the most expensive to setup for. But, I wonder about plaster casting for aluminum and how the quality and detail is for that of the finished pieces. Also, I understand that spin casting can be interesting for some small parts but is mostly only good for metals like zinc.
Brian Luce September 10th, 2007, 10:35 AM Wouldn't it have been a lot easier and less expensive just ot buy one of these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Continuous-Lighting-Fotodiox-Pro-Cool-Light-900-NEW_W0QQitemZ160114386643QQihZ006QQcategoryZ3860QQcmdZViewItem
I bought 2 and have been using them for almost a year. It has 2 circuits, one I use for 5500 degree CFL's and the other circuit for 3500 CFL's.
Just a thought.
Gary
I don't understand, you can use one spiral bulb for two different temps?
How's the build quality?
Gary Moses September 10th, 2007, 12:27 PM Bruce,
There are 2 different types of bulbs you can buy at home depot/Lowes, nvision daylight (5500 kelvin) and warm (3500 kelvin), each bulb puts out 100 watts and uses about 23 watts.
There are 2 circuits in the unit I bought, one has 5 sockets and the other has 4 sockets. I put 5 daylights in the 5 socket, the bulbs put out 1300 lumens and 4 warm in the 4 sockets, each bulbs put out 1600 lumens. It closely balances the light output. 6500 lumens for Daylight and 6400 for the warm.
David Fleming September 10th, 2007, 01:37 PM Just thoguht I would mention that Britek makes CF fixtures and sells them with sofboxes and stands quite resonably. The set I have uses four 42watt CF bulbs with individual switches and a 24" x 24" softbox with diffusion silk.
Everything packs down into a faily compact duffle bag, and I can usually get all three lights assembled and running in about 15 minutes. My impresson owning them for about a year and using them on 7 or 8 projects is that they are not built for extreme duty service, but if you take care of them they will work well.
Most everyone I have used them with has been curious but supprised with the results. If you need an inexpensive soft lighting solution I would definatelly check em out.
Martin Catt September 10th, 2007, 04:26 PM Nice job, Martin! The only suggestion from me would be to paint the exteriors flat black also. That eliminates any unwanted reflections and I feel it would give them an additional touch of professional appearance.
-gb-
I'd considered that. These are prototypes, per se, and there were a lot of unanswered questions as to how well they would work once finished. The big question was heat management. The double-pan design gives excellent convection cooling, so even after an hour or so, they only get warm. Oddly enough, the barn doors get hotter than the main chassis, though not surprising since they're painted black. I originally went for one side black/other side natural beadblast so I could flip'em over if I wanted a more reflective surface. Having an unpainted side lets them shed heat better than if they were painted both sides.
It's also a cosmetic issue. The outside of the barn doors will get banged and scratched up. The matte beadblast finish hides the dings better than straight black. Now, if I was REALLY dedicated, I'd go out and get them black anodized.
Martin
Martin Catt September 10th, 2007, 04:33 PM Wouldn't it have been a lot easier and less expensive just ot buy one of these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Continuous-Lighting-Fotodiox-Pro-Cool-Light-900-NEW_W0QQitemZ160114386643QQihZ006QQcategoryZ3860QQcmdZViewItem
Gary
Sure, but it wouldn't have been near as much fun. Actually, the materials cost for the pair I made would have been the same for a single unit like you've shown (when you add in shipping, etc.). The unit you've listed also doesn't come with barn doors, plus I wanted a yoke mount for balance. The Novatron flash heads use an hinged post like yours, and I've always found them to be top-heavy and off-balance for certain setups. When you buy, you get what's available. When you build, you get what you want.
Martin
Martin Catt September 10th, 2007, 04:55 PM I would swear I've seen other larger sized baking pans at a restaurant supply. I used to live in Houston and there was Ace Mart on I-10 which had a lot of different sizes I think. I used a round one for a similar idea to this before for fitting in a softbox.
Well, I confess I didn't look to hard, though I do have connections in the restaurant supply industry. The 9x9" pans hit the price point I wanted and I could get them at Wal-Mart. I've toyed with the idea of a video ring light using a ring cake pan, though I can't see my having any real application for it any time soon. If I was shooting industrial or medical footage and needed a well-and-even-lit closeup, maybe.
On your casting setup, is that sand casting you're using? Sounds like you're setup for some serious metal work there. I guess you need to do quite a bit of machining on the cast parts if they're sand cast types right? I've become pretty familiar with all these casting types now and while die casting is the ultimate, it's also the most expensive to setup for. But, I wonder about plaster casting for aluminum and how the quality and detail is for that of the finished pieces. Also, I understand that spin casting can be interesting for some small parts but is mostly only good for metals like zinc.
Yeah, sand casting. I do "small" stuff, limited to about 4 pounds aluminum or so. Picture of my foundry at:
http://backyardmetalcasting.com/guest_martin.html
How much machining is needed depends on the "look" you want. I usually just machine the critical mating surfaces and leave the rest natural. It gives a softer, more rounded, organic look to the piece. The finish depends on the coarseness of the casting sand. Finer sand gives a smoother finish.
Die casting is great if you need hundreds or thousands of pieces, and can spread out the cost. Some of the zinc-based die-cast alloys are actually stronger than cast iron.
I'm guessing that when you say plaster, you mean investment casting. Regular plaster tends to explode when you use it as a casting mold. Investment casting lets you do really complicated shapes that can't be die or sand cast, but you need a wax original for every part you want to cast. It's great for short runs of high-value items. Jewelers use it a lot. Centrifugal or spin casting isn't limited to zinc. It goes all the way up to refractory metals like platinum.
Sand casting falls in between the two. It's great if you want to do just a few things, or you can grind out a hundred or so. I haven't touched the foundry for a year, so I'm looking for an excuse to melt something.
Martin
Richard Andrewski September 10th, 2007, 05:29 PM Didn't mean to hijack the thread but I love this kind of stuff. Here's an excerpt from a site describing what I'm talking about by plaster casting for aluminum:
"In this method, either a permeable (aerated) or impermeable plaster is used for the mold. The plaster in slurry form is poured around a pattern, the pattern is removed and the plaster mold is baked before the casting is poured. The high insulating value of the plaster allows castings with thin wads to be poured.
Minimum wall thickness of aluminum plaster castings typically is 1.5 mm. Plaster molds have high reproducibility, permitting castings to be made with fine details and close tolerances. Mechanical properties and casting quality depend on alloy composition and foundry technique. Slow cooling due to the highly insulating nature of plaster molds tends to magnify solidification-related problems, and thus solidification must be controlled carefully to obtain good mechanical properties.
Cost of basic equipment for plaster casting is low; however, because plaster molding is slower than sand molding, cost of operation is high. Aluminum alloys commonly used for plaster casting are 295.0, 355.0, C355.0, 356.0 and A356.0."
The above came from this site:
http://www.key-to-metals.com/Article59.htm
Actually sounds like a good compromise for getting lots of small details without going to die casting. I would also imagine that some of the really hard stone plaster varieties like that used by dentists to make molds might work better in high heat situations.
The spin casting also sounds really interesting to me:
http://www.tekcast.com/
But on that site, they claim its mostly good for use with casting zinc and not higher heat metals like aluminum.
We'd love to find a great alternative for casting low numbers of parts a hundred at a time, but getting high detail and precision. The cost of making a die casting mold is really high, even here in China. I looked at sand casting but it can't be used to reproduce really great detail and thin parts of a model.
Richard Andrewski September 10th, 2007, 05:34 PM Sure, but it wouldn't have been near as much fun. Actually, the materials cost for the pair I made would have been the same for a single unit like you've shown (when you add in shipping, etc.). The unit you've listed also doesn't come with barn doors, plus I wanted a yoke mount for balance. The Novatron flash heads use an hinged post like yours, and I've always found them to be top-heavy and off-balance for certain setups. When you buy, you get what's available. When you build, you get what you want.
Martin
I think this is the point for some. Many, like me just do it for the fun and challenge or stretching their craftsmanship. In the early days of fluorescent lighting for media production however, companies like Cool Lights or some of the others didn't exist and you did have to pay big money to get a fluorescent unit. So DIY was the best alternative then for those with smaller budgets. Today it is getting much harder with all the available alternatives to consider it cost effective to do DIY however if that's your main reason for doing it.
Martin Catt September 10th, 2007, 05:53 PM Richard:
Terminology difference, I think. Round here, when people say "plaster," they mean plaster of paris. I suspect the "plaster" in the article is actually an investment compound, which is intended for use as casting. My background is in watchmaking and jewelry, and one of the things we were told was to NEVER use plaster of paris for casting molds because it wouldn't stand the heat and often would pop or "explode" when filled with molten metal. Of course, jewelry alloys melt at around 1800 degrees F. Lower temp alloys might work in regular plaster. My information is slightly dated.
Martin
Richard Andrewski September 10th, 2007, 06:10 PM Yeah, no way would plaster of paris work. I think they mean products like Ultracal 30 from US Gypsum:
http://www.plaster.com/Ultracal.html
Or the dental grade molding stones which are all super hard and dense.
Greg Boston September 10th, 2007, 07:10 PM Now, if I was REALLY dedicated, I'd go out and get them black anodized.
There are kits you can buy online for small volume anodizing. Not too expensive. I was looking into it awhile back for something unrelated to video.
As to painting, I was talking more about the baking pan exterior than the barn doors. Sounds like you did okay with the cooling requirements by creating that airspace.
-gb-
Gary Moses September 11th, 2007, 07:38 AM Sure Martin, building is much more fun, that's why I built my own LED lights that are extremely powerful. When it comes to putting 9 or 16 bulbs (they make a 16 also) in a small case, it was much easier to buy. By the way, I don't use barn doors I made a shield around the entire box, mostly for protection of the bulbs.
Gary
Brian Luce September 11th, 2007, 11:28 AM Wouldn't it have been a lot easier and less expensive just ot buy one of these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Continuous-Lighting-Fotodiox-Pro-Cool-Light-900-NEW_W0QQitemZ160114386643QQihZ006QQcategoryZ3860QQcmdZViewItem
I bought 2 and have been using them for almost a year. It has 2 circuits, one I use for 5500 degree CFL's and the other circuit for 3500 CFL's.
Just a thought.
Gary
I emailed the seller about this and they said the fixture is 8"x8". Isn't that a bit small for 9 bulbs?
Gary Moses September 11th, 2007, 01:01 PM Yeah Brian, it sure seems that it is, but 9 bulbs fit perfectly. What's nice is that 2 of these fit in an old gym bag and weigh only a few pounds.
Gary
Mark Sasahara September 12th, 2007, 04:09 PM A Matthews TVMP adapter might be helpful.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/33181-REG/Matthews_429492_TVMP_Adapter.html
http://www.msegrip.com/mse.php?show=product&cat=279&products_ID=24180
Get a small Matth T handle to replace the thumbscrew. The TVMP adapter has a 5/8 female receiver and the outer diameter is 1 1/8" so and it will fit in a Jr receiver, when you remove the T handle. You may also want a slightly beefier yoke.
Increase the size of the "pan" and the addition of Miro covered reflectors will also increase the size of your light. I believe that would also increase the output. You would have to fiddle with the angle of reflection and maybe also figure out an optimal placement distance. You could probably find a metal fabricator to help you make your parts.
Does the light cause multiple shadows? That would be one concern. a little bit of light diffusion should cure that, if there are.
Nice rig.
Martin Catt September 12th, 2007, 07:31 PM You may also want a slightly beefier yoke.
The current 1"x.125" aluminum yoke seems to be sized just right for the weight of the head. My only concern was the mount hole at the bottom of the yoke would weaken it, so I went with the wide bar stock reinforcement. Plus. it made it simple to do the mount for the stand. There is no wobble, rock, or droop. It locks up nice and solid.
Increase the size of the "pan" and the addition of Miro covered reflectors will also increase the size of your light. I believe that would also increase the output. You would have to fiddle with the angle of reflection and maybe also figure out an optimal placement distance. You could probably find a metal fabricator to help you make your parts.
No plans to go into production any time soon. At the most, I thought I might do up a PDF file with plans and instructions and make them available for download.
Does the light cause multiple shadows? That would be one concern. a little bit of light diffusion should cure that, if there are.
Because of the compact size of the heads, the close lamp spacing, and the diffuse nature of CF's, you only get single shadows at normal working distances. As a wild-hair experiment, this worked out pretty well.
Nice rig.
Thanks.
Martin
Tsu Terao September 13th, 2007, 12:27 PM Martin
If you were to do it again, would you use double pans, or would a single do?
Martin Catt September 13th, 2007, 04:58 PM Martin
If you were to do it again, would you use double pans, or would a single do?
You really want to use two pans. The two pans nested together form the housing and reflector assembly, giving a bright aluminum reflector behind the lamps and completely covering the sockets and wiring.
The pictures below show how it's built. The first picture shows the back pan, where all the sockets and the yoke mounts are attached. Everything major attaches to the back pan. In the center are four 1.25" aluminum hex spacers used to mount the second pan in front of the first.
The next picture shows the second pan, removed from the lighting fixture. It serves as a reflector and a place to mount the barn doors. Nine large holes are drilled in it for the lamps to screw through. It mounts to the back pan with four screws into the four hex spacers.
The last picture shows the two pans assembled , without the CF lamps.
You could replace the back pan with a box or plate of some kind, but using two identical pans is the easiest way to make the fixture.
Hope that helps.
Martin
Richard Andrewski September 13th, 2007, 05:26 PM No question that is the easiest way. The harder route would have been to make a Alanod MIRO reflector box that went on top of the sockets. The reason I say hard is because its not such an easy trick to cut the reflector out of the aluminum and do it right the first time--making it look good and professional too.
Martin Catt September 13th, 2007, 05:42 PM Richard:
I agree completely. This was an exercise in producing a solid, reliable light unit on the cheap, using locally available items. I'm really happy with how things turned out. The lights look good and perform better than I expected. Unless you get right up on the back of the unit and see the Nordic Ware stamp, you can't really tell it's made from two brownie pans. I suppose I should make a custom nameplate to cover the stamp.
BTW, I enjoy reading your site and how you develop your product line. I think you understand what's needed to come up with a profitable design and bring it to the market better than most, especially when it's a product that may sell only in the hundreds or thousands of units. I thought about making and selling lights like these, but there's really no way I could compete with the imports selling for less than $90 on eBay.
Regards;
Martin.
Richard Andrewski September 13th, 2007, 06:09 PM I know what things cost and I thought it was ridiculous what an aluminum fixture was costing--especially long after all the tooling costs have been paid for. I also know what ballasts are and what components are in them. It's hard to imagine the collection of components that warrants a price tag of $4000 to $8000 for an HMI for instance. Actually, I think its not that I know more than most because I don't. Many people understand manufacturing processes. Frankly, I think its a question of business plans, honesty, size of companies, overhead, momentum in the market, and what they can get away with based on what they have done in the past. It's mainly the lengths I've been willing to go to that many others might not be willing to do to make all this happen.
On the subject of what you choose to be your "project box" as I call it --borrowing a term from the electronic hobbyist world and applying it to the lighting experimenter: that's easily the hardest part IMHO. You can search for weeks for a suitable enclosure and baking pans are about as good as it gets for many of these kinds of things. When I wanted to move up to the 55w tubes, there really wasn't anything of the size necessary so it was time for more serious measures--like going to a sheet metal fab shop....
Martin Catt July 27th, 2008, 07:26 PM Got a question via PM about the lights, and thought I'd attach the PDF showing how the hinges are made and the wiring diagram.
Regards;
Martin
Chris Barcellos July 27th, 2008, 10:32 PM I made this unit as a prototype using 3 4-bulp bathroom fixtures bought at Home Depot for 9 bucks each. Backing is a cutdown foamcore poster board I got at Staples. Kids use them for the science presentations, etc. With this set up, the you just have to wire tie three units together, and tie them together with wood slats, and design a mount for whatever you are goint to hand them from. In this case I had a shop light go back so I used the encloser for the the wiring. No switch right now but the concept will work...
By the way, those shop lights in background are used to sit on either side of my green screen....
Bob Hart July 28th, 2008, 11:07 AM CAUTIONARY NOTE:
Out here in Oz, there are some long plastic planters which are right for about 25 CF lamps in two rows of 8 and one row of 9.
I have outlayed an uncomfortable amount of funds for the pots and the lamps, but am yet to cut the mount panels and wire them.
They will come out to approximately the equivalent of 2800w tungsten each and will draw less power from common domestic household power outlets or small generators, which is how I need them to be.
I now have some misgivings as I have since learned that these things are a mercury hazard if they get broken. An emergency evacuation and decontamination of a film set is not a funny business, especially if a whole bunch get smashed.
You all know what happens to lights on a shoot. If people don't hang a toe in a cable and pull a lamp over at least once on a filmshoot, they are simply not alive.
It might be prudent to re-think this whole CF light thing or design fully sealed enclosures robust enough to contain the dust until they can be opened in a controlled environment for repair.
Bob Grant July 28th, 2008, 04:52 PM Not to dismiss the dangers of mercury poisoning however the amount of it in the latest fluro lights is very small. I wonder if the amount though was reduced out of environmental concerns or because of the cost of it. Less mercury in the tube means longer warm up times as well.
All our lighting kit that isn't fluro is HID and so far despite many damaged CFLs and several wrecked light fixtures we've only had one incident where the glass broke. The glass is remarkably strong, the glue holding it into the base isn't. If you design your fixtures so that in a fall the lamp doesn't take a direct hit the risk of breaking the glass is very small.
To keep the "CFLs are bad because they contain mercury" argument in perspective almost all our power down here comes from coal fired power stations and coal contains mercury and uranium. In theory the scrubbers should extract it from the flue before it goes up the stack, even if they do then what happens to it is another question.
Martin Catt July 28th, 2008, 05:20 PM No one has ever actually posted just how much mercury is in a "typical" CFL unit. I suspect it's rather miniscule, being in vapor form inside a low-pressure housing. My personal take (for what it's worth) is that you'd have to break open and sniff dozens of CFL's before you might approach having an issue with mercury. They certainly contain less than those eight-foot florescent tubes that were regularly tossed in the dumpsters.
Safe lighting practices should eliminate most hazards. I tend to handle my CFL lights with the same care I did for hot tungsten lamps, making sure they were placed in stable positions, properly secured, and all cords taped down or tucked away where people were less likely to snag one.
The biggest worry I have is that some well-intentioned idiot will replace the CFL units with regular filament lamps and have a melt-down and fire because the fixtures aren't designed to take that much heat. As long as the original builders keep control of the lights they've built, there shouldn't be a problem. I tend to overbuild, using mostly all metal parts, so even if I shoved 150 watt filament bulbs in the units, they'd work just fine (and eliminate the need for central heating in winter).
Regards;
Martin
Richard Andrewski July 28th, 2008, 09:54 PM Actually there is information on the amount of mercury in these bulbs. Here's an excerpt of an Article titled "Fluorescent Lamps and the Environment":
"Based on a 1999 NEMA survey, the average four-foot
fluorescent lamp contains about 11.6 milligrams (mg) of
mercury. This number has been steadily declining as lamp
manufacturers work to reduce mercury content to the
minimum amount technically feasible without reducing
lamp life. The average four-foot lamp today contains over
75% less mercury than the same lamp would have
contained in 1985."
And thats what was in a 4 foot tube in 1999. A small CFL will have quite a bit less and in general they are using less all the time.
The entire article can be found here:
http://www.nema.org/lamprecycle/nemafluorfinal.pdf
The fact is these lamps wouldn't be as efficient or have a long life if they didn't have mercury in them.
People are and have been using fluorescent and HMI/metal halide on film sets for a very long time so I doubt that this is really a concern. Metal halide and fluorescent are also being used widely across the world in office buildings, shopping malls, warehouses and homes. And all those technologies have mercury in them to one degree or another. Yes sometimes the bulbs break or explode. That is the exception and not the rule though. They are providing benefits in the use of energy and not generating the heat that needs to be displaced by air conditioning too so we can probably take a few calculated risks to get those benefits. LEDs are no where near the cost to output ratio they need to be to replace HMI or fluorescent so until that happens we will continue seeing fluorescent and metal halide in wide use.
You should always be setting your lights up, no matter what kind of bulb is in them so they won't be falling over and if they do to minimize the possibility of any breakage.
Jonathan Levin October 6th, 2008, 07:08 PM Martin,
Fantastic light project!!! I want to build something myself. I went to home depot to buy aN N-vision daylight bulb to experiment with my Nikon D2x. (Don't have video camera yet to test with)
Thanks so much for this.
Jonathan
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