This may be too early in the game to know but does the XDCAM EX need to have the expresscard pro cards to operate?

Or can it use the normal expresscard?

The brochure introduces the expresscard pro, but the specs say expresscard.

The pro version is pretty expensive: 16gb for 700 euros.

There is a 32gb normal expresscard on Newegg for $479 us.

Quite a difference there!

I believe they're the same, however with the word "pro" comes certain "guarantees" of performance and longevity. Like CF for DSLR's I don't doubt that any Expresscard will work with the EX, what I do doubt however is a guaranteed level of speed and data integrity ratio.

Sony made a presentation at DVExpo East (NYC) a few weeks back which mentioned that there were two card types. I believe they said that the standard "non pro" variant could be found for about $200 for 16GB but the main difference would be xfer speed. Of course they didn't mention anything about file corruptiion issues but if the slower cheaper ones are otherwise reliable then that might be the route to go if you need to hand a client a "tape" after the shoot.

I checked the expresscard at newegg and it is only 8MB/S (64 Mbit/s) writing speed. Expresscard pro is about 100MB/S (800 Mbit/s). It is about 11 times faster but I don't think you need that much speed for recording 35Mbit/s (4.3MB/S) on PDWEX1. Regular expresscard should be fine for recording but uploading is going to be very very slow compare to pro version. Ex1 comes with an USB2 reader and USB 2 is limited to 480 Mbit/s. To get the full speed, I think a Firewire 800 reader is necessary.

check this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbps

Bora, interesting info. Sony didn't mention exactly what the speed difference was but did say it was significant. They did say the slower cards would work though.

It'll be interesting to see where pricing goes on the slow cards compared to Pro over then next few months. The slow cards may well get closer to solving the "tape" issue for shooters who need to hand something over to the client.

Even with DV tapes I'd get clients who's next job was to find a way to play back that tape if they didn't at least have a consumer DV camera to use. With the Express card they may be able to playback the clips with a recent laptop.

Which brings me to the next point. I believe the fastest transfer speeds will be with computers (e.g. laptops) with Express slots like MacBooks or Sony Vaios. It would be nice to desktops with built in Express slots.

Thanks for your help.

The slower cards mights be a good option if it allows one to buy more storage.

The last thing you want to happen is to run out of storage space on a gig!

Regular expresscard should be fine for recording but uploading is going to be very very slow compare to pro version.

I saw one review which said the read speed on standard Expresscard memory is several times faster than the write speed, so maybe transfer to a computer wouldn't be too bad. Plus not only are you limited by the maximum bandwidth of your transfer connection, but also the maximum sustainable write speed of the receiving transfer device. Most single hard drives can't sustain more than ~30-50 MB/sec write speed anyway, so anything faster than that on the Expresscard could be wasted unless you're transferring to a good RAID setup.

I checked the expresscard at newegg and it is only 8MB/S (64 Mbit/s) writing speed. Expresscard pro is about 100MB/S (800 Mbit/s). It is about 11 times faster ...

Your comparing read speed to write speed. Sony state the cards can read at 100MBps, the NewEgg card writes at 8MBps, however it reads at 18MBps. Slower, to be sure, but not 11 times, more like 5.5 times. Sony do not state the cards writing performance (there is little advantage to the writing performance being a lot over 35Mbps (4.4MBps) though you need some tolerance.

Some may be able to afford and use the very high speed Sony sticks, many (like me) will not and just want to be able to not stress about running out of Flash on a shoot.

I guess we're all waiting to see what price SanDisk will do with this format.

Vaughan

So has anyone actually heard confirmation on whether the EX will be able to use regular express cards?

The Sony Australia brochure states pretty explicitly that SxS cards are 'the' media that the camera records to, and at roughly the same price as P2 they aren't as appealling as I had hoped.

The PDF brochure simply says under "Media Slot", "ExpressCard compatible"

See what Simon has to say on this; sounds promising:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=740733&postcount=7

Looks like much is depending on the policy Sony adopts (and of course on real differences between the pro and regular cards, which we cannot know yet, apart from what specs are saying).

It is my take that all of the Sony literature "suggests" the use of Expresscard Pro because they want you to buy their proprietary product.

This looks like one of those 'run it by legal' to imply something but not exactly say it.

Just looking at the profit margin in selling a 16gb expresscard for $950 usd, they would enjoy your business.

Lets hope they give the option (looks like it) to use the normal variant cards.

It would be a new look for Sony, which would be refreshing.

So has anyone actually heard confirmation on whether the EX will be able to use regular express cards?

According to the Sony rep at IBC, no, it is exclusively SxS. If you have direct questions you want asked, go to ibc.mikkowilson.com and send Mikko a text message. He's reporting live from the show floor and will try to get your question asked and answered on his news feed.

Thanks Barry, I feared as much. At least recording times are reasonable on the cards, hopefully some third-party manufacturers go after this market segment and those card prices come down a little. (though from the sounds of it, two 16Gb cards would suffice for a day's shooting)

Yes Mark, even if the cards are more expensive than we first thought or liked, the fact that others will be producing them, and that they have a much greater recording capacity is a massive advantage over P2.

... from the sounds of it, two 16Gb cards would suffice for a day's shooting)

Would someone kindly tell me how many hours of footage will fit onto a 16GB ExpressCard Pro?
thanks,
malcolm

Would someone kindly tell me how many hours of footage will fit onto a 16GB ExpressCard Pro?

Sony is saying that 16GB will hold a minimum of 50 minutes of full-quality footage at the 35 Mbps (variable) bit rate, so two cards would hold 100 minutes. (And recording time will be longer in the lower quality modes.) That's not enough for a whole day of shooting for some of us, but it's at least a good length of time before you have to think about swapping cards. Once the 32GB cards are available that would be 200 minutes of continuous shooting before swapping cards, which is getting close to being enough for a full day. Compared to P2 this is both significantly more continuous recording time and a lot less money for a day's worth of cards, assuming the SxS pricing comes in at currently reported levels.

Sony is saying that 16GB will hold a minimum of 50 minutes of full-quality footage at the 35 Mbps (variable) bit rate, so two cards would hold 100 minutes. (And recording time will be longer in the lower quality modes.)

Thanks Kevin. If you don't mind... if I record at a slightly lower quality mode (something in between full-quality and HDV, say), how many minutes/hours can I fit on a 16GB card.
Malcolm

Thanks Kevin. If you don't mind... if I record at a slightly lower quality mode (something in between full-quality and HDV, say), how many minutes/hours can I fit on a 16GB card.
Malcolmat the next level down from the 35Mbps max, it would be 25Mbps CBR and that will give you approx. 70minutes for one 16Gb card.

Thanks Stu. How would that compare, quality-wise, to HDV?
Malcolm

Thanks Stu. How would that compare, quality-wise, to HDV?

My understanding is that the 25 Mbps mode on the EX1 will be standard HDV, so no difference other than that it's coming from a very good sensor. (In other words, it should be about as good as HDV can get.)

My understanding is that the 25 Mbps mode on the EX1 will be standard HDV, so no difference other than that it's coming from a very good sensor. (In other words, it should be about as good as HDV can get.)

I know that there has been some discussion on what I'm going to ask, but if the 25 Mbps mode on the EX1 will be standard HDV, then it stands to reason that Premiere Pro can edit it straight from the timeline without any need for something like Cineform Aspect isn't?

I'm not sure the files on the express card is HDV, but you CAN capture via firewire and that video stream will be HDV, so yes, PPro should be able to use that, but I don't know about the actual files on the express card.

I believe those are still XDCam HD even though they are 1440 x 1080. I believe that's what the other XDCam footage is as well from other cameras, but I could be wrong.

The audio is encoded differently (given that it's uncompressed not mp3) and I think the 25Mbit files will still be presented in an MP4 wrapper. So... I don't think they're directly HDV compatible.

P2 cards cost a fortune up until they brought out the 16GB card and now the threat from Sony I think we are going to see a price war. Sony have lost a lot of ground to P2 so they need to be competitive entering the solid state arena.
It looks like we will get 2 8GB cards as part of the initial purchase of the EX then if pockets can stretch get 2 extra 16Gig cards, this should cover most events. Remember our old friends Focus will bring out a Sony Firestore EX this would give you belt and braces if recording time becomes a problem.
Now that you are forced to think about TIME = MONEY = SPACE some of you may have got into a mindset that your DV tapes are £2 a pot so shoot more than we need to cover yourselves. I noticed 95% of professional photographers going down this route when they had lots more pictures to take so they took them, all 1600 of them per wedding. Give them a 12 exposure medium format camera and they thought about every shot and had little to no waist and the output dropped to 300-400 pictures. Video has for some gone the same way this very much depends if you have been professionally trained or not. The more you shoot the more you have to trawl through in the edit. I had personal experience of this recently when shooting for a client who did not have a clue what he wanted. I was filming various processes around a factory and instead of filming the beginning, middle and end of a process he had me filming the whole process, his very words were don't worry I will trim it down in the edit. I handed the 7 mini tapes to the editor and apologized for the amount of material. Glad I wasn't using EX on those 3 days.
I personally think I will be offering the EX only to my corporate clients at a far higher price than my DV cameras and making shure the approved script is water tight before filming begins. I will be hanging onto my DV cameras for stage shows etc as this will still prove the best and quickest way for editing through put.

Remember our old friends Focus will bring out a Sony Firestore EX this would give you belt and braces if recording time becomes a problem...

Except that ieee1394 output is HDV only - no 35Mbit XDCAM...

Except that ieee1394 output is HDV only - no 35Mbit XDCAM...

Correct... the Firestore EX will only record in HD the same as the camera but with a lot more space 100GB or more.