I'm shooting my first feature for (hopfully) $5000, and i need some help on were i should spend my money. I have acsess to a canon xha1, and a conon 814 xls (8mm film), and i was hoping on making it all or mostly on 8mm. i own a sennhiser me66 so a microphone is not an issue. i can borrow 2 totas, how much more light do you think i would need? if anybody has some good experience on making super low-budget features, that would be a real help!

Thanks,

--Corwin (15)

1- This is a very broad question!

2- To answer your question in general...
You should first look at what your needs are.

- Do you want to commit your money, time, and life to making a feature? Depending on its scope, it can be a big undertaking especially if you haven't produced a lot of films before. You might want to shoot a trailer or a scene that can stand on its own (as in, a scene that makes sense by itself without needing the rest of the movie).
- Technical needs
- How many locations
- How many shooting days
etc.

3- Make a realistic budget. There tends to be *a lot* of little expenses that add up. You might perhaps look at some template budgets as a starting point (though some of them are for bigger budget productions).

4- Budget for good food. If people are helping you out for free and for long hours, you want to keep everyone's spirits up.

5- Gear-wise, do you have a windsock + boompole for your ME-66? Are you going to be shooting scenes where you can't get the mic very close? (In that case, sound from the boom mic will suck and you may or may not want to use wireless, or find an alternative sound solution. Look find a quiet location that's not echo-ey.)

Audio is important to get right. People will put up with a shoddy picture, but won't put up with shoddy audio.

If you shoot 8mm film, you might need an audio recorder??

6- Lighting:

One approach:
http://www.dalelauner.com/words/NABkeynote.html
*Though there are things you don't have, mainly:
-A very talented DP (David Mullen is in the ASC)
-A budget quite as big
(-Experienced crew; experience and talent make a huge difference!)

But really, you should look at your script. What does it call for artistically?

7- The other thing to ask yourself is whether or not the script is worth producing. Most people can't write a good script, especially if they do not have experience doing it. I sure as hell can't write. But many filmmakers end up spending thousands of dollars on mediocre scripts... and for what?

Some related info...
http://www.tengrandmovie.com/

8- Another approach would be to hold off until you have more experience under you belt.
Enter contests like the one here at dvinfo... there's deadlines to make sure you don't slack, and you can even win a prize (and they're pretty damn good).
dvxuser.com also has contests from time to time

My simple advise- watch Robert Rodridez's 10 minute film school (it's on the EL MARIATCI DVD).

His basic rule - never spend money on anything. Ever. And if you're shooting film of any type $5 k is a very small number - not impossible, but very tough.

john

evilgeniusentertainment.com

For 5K, if you stick to HD video, you can put alot more money in front of the camera rather than it in. Film + Processing + Telecine (so you can edit in computer) is expensive...even with 8mm.

Of course, for 5K no matter what, you're going to need to be your own biggest supporter. I'm 5 years into a feature and have found that people working for free have short attention spans.

I'm 5 years into a feature and have found that people working for free have short attention spans.

WOW, and I thought my current two years of just working on our 90 page screenplay was long.

I once had a discussion with a friend about the feasability of making a 'small movie'. All of the usual needs were obvious... put the money where it counts, keep it small, keep it simple, STORY STORY STORY...

"All I need, is a GREAT script, with two characters and a single location, it's got to have FANTASTIC dialogue, and compelling actors..." he murmured.

"You've just described a Broadway play," was my reply.


Seriously. Before you jump into shooting a feature, cut your teeth by shooting a few really fantastic scenes from some really terrific plays. Go ahead and find out what it takes from the TECHNICAL end... casting, scheduling and shooting ONE SCENE from a stage play. Pick something that happens in a living room, so you don't have to scout locations. See if you can find a scene that runs four or five pages.

Then see if you can SHOOT it in a day.

I promise you you will be amazed at what you will be forced to learn in that single day.

IF you decide you love the process... then you have to come up with a simple script, something small, something compelling, something SO good that incredibly talented people will be begging you to work on it for next to nothing.

Then ask yourself why you don't simply produce the script as a play.

I've not read all the advice above however i do know by experiece that unexpected things happen and you have to be able to just fix them with initiative. we made a feature for £10,000 ($20,000) and it turned into a joke, that budget is ludacris when you think about equipment food travel lodgings for 30 people over a 2 week period but that is the challenge. The film was never finnished but we learened a lot from it, we learned the thing they don't teach you at film school and thats the s##t that happens and how to fix it on the spot. We have all the shooting equipment and post facilities we need but it means nothing unless you can pay for the people you need to make the film good enough to be in with any kind of a chance.

Story is obviously key but having now shot two features and a promo for the third (the 4 min promo its self cost about your $5000) the thing i hate the most is bad acting, it will kill your film no matter how good your filming is or the story, the only way to get good actors is to pay for them unless you find a diamond in the rough which trust me is 1 in 2 or 3 hundred, im sick of using bad actors so with this promo we are hoping to atract some private investment and then match it with scottish screen in the sum of £100,000 (about $200,000) we already have a rich guy interested in putting in £50,000 , even with £100,000 i'm struggling to pay for a six week shoot with 30 people.

not only do you have to be accomplished filmmakers with a great script, you also have to know the path you are taking and the right people that are gonna take you down it,. Busiess is business and making films is a business like anything else.

By the way i'm not a pessimist, im a total optamist, i just realise what im up against.

Andy.

we'd need more information. Have you shot other shorts before? 8mm isn't a production medium - why are you thinking about using it? Do you have a DP onboard? If you have hired a DP, what is he/she bringing to the table and how much are they charging you? If you're doing the lighting, how much experience do you have? How long of a shoot are you planning? How many actors per day? How many locations and are you paying for them? Do you mean two Tota light kits? Or Tota lights? How are you planning on handling post? What large city are you near? And lastly, and most importantly, is this your personal money or someone else's?

I've made several ultra-low budget features although all of them a little bit higher than what you're planning here. You can do this and you can do it well.

My one preliminary word of advice is this - with an ultra-low budget feature, no one is looking at the technical aspects. What you're going to sell them on is a great script, great acting, great directing and great editing - you should be able to have all of those things.

Anyway, give me more info and i can help you quite a lot.

Corwin,

I just re-read your post, and I see that the number 15 follows your name in parenthesis. (15) Also, that you are in Palo Alto, just down the penninsula from me.

Is this your age?

If so, it's an ambtious project for a young person. Certainly it's possible to shoot a 'feature length' video for 5,000 dollars. But as most have said, we need more information on your background, experience and contacts before we can offer you specific advice.

Ok if we're answering questions well......heaven forbid, (by the way just a quick question for you Lori, how do you find being a lowbudget filmmaker in LA? in Scotland there is nothing like the amount of filmmakers or even a real industry so we tend to get access to places for free and people bend over backwards to accommidate, but in LA filmmaking must be such a common thing,over there every waitor is an actor and there's so many filmmakers do you every struggle to be taken seriously? or is it the oposite and everyone helps incase your the next tarentino? iv always wondered about it)

Anyway.

The most important thing when shooting a low budget feature is preperation, you need to have every aspect worked out before you get to the location like places and times, how people are getting there, how long it will take you to set up your gear and things like food for the actors (important). You also need to know exactly what you are shooting, turning up and winging it is not a good thing to do, it takes twice as long.

With regards to your actual question about where best to spend your $5000 you have to make sure you have a viable production workflow which will take you from pre production through to final product. This means for a very basic film you need 1) a camera 2)sound equipment 3)an edit suit. With those three basic things you can make a film.

You say you have access to a canon XHA1, my advice is use it over the 8mm it will save you time and money and give you a better result not to mention the editting process will be a lot easier with the HDV camera.

You have access to what i'm assuming is two lamps, we shot ours with two 800w red heads, granted it wasn't the best lighting but we did it. The more lights you have the more creative you can be.

You have an ME66, its a decent mic we use the same, do you have anything to plug it into? if you use the XHA1 it has XLR inputs so you can go directly to camera, if you go with the 8mm you'll need a DAT recorder which is expensive.

You have your camera and audio now you need to be able to edit it, if you don't have an edit suit or access to one you'll need to buy one. If you are shooting HDV you'll need a half decent amount of RAM, currently i'm using a G5 Quad with 1.2 terabites and 2gig Ram, you won't need all that storage space but i reccommend getting at least 2gig Ram. The basic macbook pro laptop is £1200 (about $2433) and final cut pro edit software is £849 ($1722).
If you are buying the edit suit it puts you over budget by $155 and thats not thinking about money you'll need for food and travel etc. You can look around for other cheaper editting options.

As i said that is as basic as it gets, it can be done well as Lori said but you need to have your ideas worked out and tested, i watched the bourne ultimatum which looked like it was all shot handheld and it looked absolutely amazing so it can be done.

If you are 15 you face many other problems like the fact you cant drive, people may not take you seriously, you won't have a contingency fund for when the production goes over budget and your parents may not be happy about you putting in the 18 hour shifts that a feature film requires unless you are doing it on weekends in which case it will take you about 10 years. You also have school to think about.

Hope this helps.

Andy.

LA is an incredible mixed bag. There are so many businesses that will simply say "no" to you without any thought whatsoever. I needed to shoot a scene in a hotel room the other day - a ratty hotel room. Crew of less than 10, no dialogue, one actor handling a gun in front of a mirror. I live very near (ahem) a ratty section of town. Right down the street from me is a hotel called The Silver Saddle that has a giant horse on top - what could be more cinematic than a giant plastic horse, right? They wanted $5k for the afternoon - I have no idea why. You get that everywhere you go. And then you walk into other places, and they just open the door and let you shoot. Industry professionals tend to be willing to give you really great breaks on their prices - so that part is golden. A few years ago, I was shooting a scene on the side streets of Venice where a group of people are simply walking down the street. We're not interrupting anyone's life in anyway whatsoever. The sidewalks are open. we're parked in a parking lot so street parking is available. No screaming. Not blood. Just your basic walk and talk Two different local residents came out and demanded to see our permit - and were threatening to shut us down if we didn't have them - just because they could. We were obviously professionals and everyone was well behaved. Cranky people.

I get to get out of LA a bit for the next production. I'm looking forward to that.

LA is an incredible mixed bag. There are so many businesses that will simply say "no" to you without any thought whatsoever. I needed to shoot a scene in a hotel room the other day - a ratty hotel room. Crew of less than 10, no dialogue, one actor handling a gun in front of a mirror. I live very near (ahem) a ratty section of town. Right down the street from me is a hotel called The Silver Saddle that has a giant horse on top - what could be more cinematic than a giant plastic horse, right? They wanted $5k for the afternoon - I have no idea why.

Because they knew (or thought they knew) that's what Universal would have paid them for the afternoon....Two different local residents came out and demanded to see our permit - and were threatening to shut us down if we didn't have them - just because they could. We were obviously professionals and everyone was well behaved.....

And did you have the permits? I think the perception is that "professionals" always would have.

5k thats completely insane, we had a steadicam shot walking through edinburgh airport and there apparently is a £300 charge for it but with a little smooth talking from our producer they were happy to wave the fee and they even gave us our own airport reprisentitive who took us round and let us into the checkin desks.

As far as permits go we contact the edinburgh film counsil who get us into counsil buildings like the local court etc and they give us codes so we can park on yellow lines, all they ask is you have your public liability insurance in place which we do, they don't give you a printed permit so anyone wanting one would have to call the council. Then we contact the police if there are any guns or fights in the street.

People over here are really happy to help.

andy.

Yes, of course, we had our permits. We're professionals and we're very good at what we do. We're considerate. We're quiet. We're doing an adaptation of Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice. Everyone is a grown up. We're working with a Sony F-900 - not a cheap camera.

And that's my point - in LA, even when there is nothing to object to, certain local residents go out of their way to shut even non-intrusive productions down. We were shooting up Los Feliz at a massive estate. The guy across the street who has produced a few pictures for Disney kept calling the police on us. His first gambit was that he knew we didn't have permits - that failed. So then he was bitching about the generator but we were clearly way within city noise laws.

8MM? Choose that over a Canon A1? ...and you want to save money? I don't understand.

8MM? Choose that over a Canon A1? ...and you want to save money? I don't understand.

I agree, its a dead medium. if someone gave me a VHS I couldn't play it its the same thing.

Lots of great info here. Yes, it's possible to do a feature for $5,000, but you're going to lose a lot in terms of production value, etc. I did a feature for half that in 1999, though my gear purchases were around $12,000 (XL1, G3 blue and white Power Mac, monitor, Final Cut Pro, lights, sound, etc.).

Because of a lack of money, we did minimal lighting (almost dogme 95), I had to run camera for most of the film (BIG mistake--I wasn't directing as much), I didn't have a lot of crew, no rehearsal time except a couple of days, we couldn't shoot straight through but on weekends and evenings (plus one week vacation in August to wrap it up). We lost an actress and had to recast, the shots were okay but not great, etc.

The only thing I think we had going for us was a script that had a ton of revisions and, even greater, two wonderful actors with great chemistry. If I'd waited a year, the script would've been better, I probably would've found more money and hired at least a DP, but our actors would've been gone.

I then went and did around 5-7 short films to "re-learn" how to make movies before I tackled directing my feature last year. I left the shooting up to an award-winning DP, Jon Fordham (www.jonfordham.com) and we assembled a great team of crew and cast.

I'd focus on making shorts, learning your craft before diving into a feature. Ambition is great, but learn your craft.

heath

ps-And find more money. Or very talented crew willing to work for very little money (no money crew is tough to find; you sometimes get guys and gals who are done in 3 days--I got lucky on my feature with our boom op/grip).

I think we lost the original poster (15) awhile back, but this is a good discussion for others. Thanks.

I can't imagine a feature length show for 5k that's worth watching (El Mariachi aside). I have a copy of Steven Soderbergh's production notes from Sex, Lies, and Videotape... and I'd have to check the actual numbers again (it's been years since I read it), but I just remember the budget just kept rising. He originally planned B&W to save money, and since it was such as character driven show, he spent money on talent. The film cost 1.2 mil but grossed 25 mil at the box office and won the Palm d'or at Cannes.

You get what you pay for... 5k, well you can get a ratty room for the afternoon in a seedy hotel in LA with a plastic horse on top. I wonder if they'd let you use the hotel/horse's image in your film for that price.

I think we lost the original poster (15) awhile back...
He's likely moved onto trying to become a rock star, if he's 15.

I had a student from my film school teaching days who was 18 and within a few months, was out of wanting to be a filmmaker. Natch.

Btw, I'm reading MovieMaker's (www.moviemaker.com) latest (2008) "Complete Guide to Making Movies," one of my favorite things to receive this time of year, and I love the ad on the back of the magazine, from Fuji Film. It's several different cans of film with these words:

"If they can write it, you can shoot it."

I think I'll go to my grave with that, though I think it'll be the reverse. What Fuji Film is trying to say is, script matters. Get that right, then go shoot the movie. So if a killer script can be done well for $5,000, then I'm the first in line to see it.

heath

ps-The other message I think could be, get the script right, camera/shooting comes second (or third, if you count the director).

I read a book Feature Filmmaking at Used Car Prices--this was in the mid 80s. How one could make a movie for the price of a used car. I'll have to look at it again to see what sort of advice it gave and if it seems unrealistic now. I remember it was fairly grounded though---encouraging creative thinking to get the job done, like writing titles in the sand instead of getting it done optically. And this was before digital or Rodriguez too. So many more possibilities today, even for a 15 year old. But Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance.

That Disney producer sounds like a really nice #$@%^#@!

No you havent lost me, and no im not trying to be a rockstar now. And yes the (15) is my age. We are still working on solidifying the plot, and writing some on the way. I think HD is gonna be the way to go-- maybe a scene or to on 16, for the experience. Once the script gets rolling along, were going to try and get some grants. Does any body have any experience in getting grant $? Also some questions that were asked that are in need of clearing up...

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we'd need more information. Have you shot other shorts before? 8mm isn't a production medium - why are you thinking about using it? Do you have a DP onboard? If you have hired a DP, what is he/she bringing to the table and how much are they charging you? If you're doing the lighting, how much experience do you have? How long of a shoot are you planning? How many actors per day? How many locations and are you paying for them? Do you mean two Tota light kits? Or Tota lights? How are you planning on handling post? What large city are you near? And lastly, and most importantly, is this your personal money or someone else's?

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I have shot many shorts before, dititally, and on film. I was thinking of using super 8 because it looks like film for the least amount of money. Real film, that is, not all thoes afects in AE, which to me dont seem to work that well. For now im going to be action as the DP, along with the guy im doing this with. I have no formal training in lighting, but I know what looks good, and what i need to do to get the look im going for (most of the time). Im thinking of a 10 day shooting schedual, over the summer, so it wont affect with school or anything. Our cast and crew will consist of myself and the guy im doing this with, two other deticated crew members (no pay), and hopefully four to five actors. There are the main characters, and if need be, the crew members or ourselves can step in as extras. We will be shooting by the time I am 16, so i will be able to drive. I know this sounds ambitios, but we will likely be shooting in *Salt Lake city* (Likely to be changed to a closer region made to look like salt lake city-- Tahoe or something), Reno, Stanford, and near LA. (Not in it) The script calls for lots of driving and shots along open highway, which is why the highway around reno should be good. Right now just 2 tota lights. will buy a couple of omni's also, when the money is there. Premeir Pro prod. suiet stuff is for post.

Sorry for the delay, thanks,
-Corwin

8mm over HD? Have you seen 8mm? And of course the cost.
Moot point by now, it seems, though.

I'd say that's plenty reasonable for a low budget indy production. It won't have all of the advantages of a professional setup, but if you can get some dedicated people, should work out.
No big things to rent, no expensive locations, costumes, sets or complex practical or visual FX sequences, and I think it's possible if you cut some corners.

Generally, having had similar experiences to you, I say:
1. Don't give up and do your best. Keep trying.
2. Don't let it get out of hand to where you can't finish it.
...Good luck!

Thanks Dan

Corwin, I also would REALLY advice you to shoose the Canon XH A1 over the 8mm...
It will look better, and you can make a Canon XH A1 look very filmic too.
Look once for the program (plugin) Magic Bullet Editors... I've worked with it, and I'm very pleased with the results.

If you want 8mm, talk to these people:

http://pro8mm.com/main.php

The only thing is, a feature will cost you around $12,000 or so (my good pal tried convincing me to go this route until he saw how grainy the footage is and how much it costs) and I don't remember if that includes the camera or not.

This girl at the age of 12 or 13 did a feature:

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=21023

Inspiration all around. And Rick Schmidt's excellent book, Feature Filmmaking at Used Car Prices, is an EXCELLENT book. I have read it numerous times, though I haven't shot on film since...I think early 1998. I re-read most of it before we shot my latest feature a year ago.

One more book:

http://www.mwp.com/books/marketing-distribution/marketing.php4

heath

Hi, I have an idea if you wish to shoot on super8

If youve never made a film before, shooting super8 will be very very costly.

So why not shoot your film on dv. Dont worry about lighting, and just shoot. Get the story, screenplay, acting all down to a 't', and just shoot.

Edit your film to a finished project in a cheap NLE

NOW you will have a finished film and exact shooting/scene schedule.

Instead of shooting 8 hours of super 8 film getting it right, shoot 8 hours of minidv (cheap).

You will now know exactly what you want to shoot, and you can pump your budget into the super8, lighting and production.

tbip2001

Short and sweet, James. Thanks!

heath

At that point, if it's so efficient, go for 16mm. So much better than 8.
(8, though not an organic material, is actually equivalent to less resolution than HD.)

Corwin, i like your ambition, most kids your age are out riding their bikes or whatever .As long as you have people round you that have the same drive you'll do okay even if the film doesnt work out you'll learn a lot.

best of luck,
Andy.

For sure, thanks a ton!

Hi,

So I can give you some pointers and stuff. I have shot two feature films for less than $6,000. However, you would have to ask some key questions, as i would for me to be able to really give you any info that would be right for you and the film. One thing is this, either you own a camera and boom or you must be able to get one for cheap or free. remember, with out a camera, one light, a mic (boom) and actors, you can't do anything. so this stuff is the key, this also tells you were you may need to place your concerns and money. you must have actors on board and willing to work for cheap ( they should do it for free, but be their on time and work hard), you must have camera and film (or DV tapes), you must have at least 2 people helping you on your crew. hey making films is not easy, if it was everyone would be doing it, oh yeah, these days many are tring and finding out how hard it can be at times. well write me back if you wqant, anytime.

My advice is to shoot consecutively (like two weeks with 2 days off--6-day weeks). I think, to do it right, you need at least $12,000 to $15,000 to get a crew (don't pay the cast), food, lights, gear, camera, etc.

heath

Christopher, earlier in the thread it meantions what i have avalible. Were going to try and get a grant (or a couple) to get to $10,000. Thats if we are lucky, and the script is safe and solid. I think we will be able to find two dedicatid crew members (4 total crew members) without having to pay them. The three main things we have to worry about are 1.) Getting good actors, willing to trust students. 2.) Food $ 3.) Travel $. we are thinking 3 main actors, and either we/ the crew will covor all of the extras. Givin our budget and time constraints (school, darn it) we will probebly be shooting 10 days over the summer, with one day off. Our cast and crew will definitely have to be dadicated. Thanks for the replies--

Corwin

Hmm... I'm about an hour and a half away (when I'm home for the summer, anyway). Where will you be shooting?
Way too far off to promise anything.

We will probably be shooting in the mountians (to be made to look like salt lake city), near stanford univercity, in reno (hopefully) and somewhere more southern in ca... not positive yet. there are a couple gas stations, and a pawn shop which can be shot anywhere. there is also a scene in an apartment in salt lake city, which will most likely be shot in SF, since we know someone who lives there. none of this is solid yet, but thanks for the intrest--

Corwin

Just thought I would throw this in there. On our upcoming short we are scraping all problems with audio and dubbing in post (pseudo-horror movie, the dialog doesn't have to synch perfectly). You can save some $ on your boom equipment and some battery power on your car shots this way, major Rodriguez indi technique. I do agree with everyone above, go for the DV.

(Fun fact: I was born at Stanford, can't wait to see the finished piece.)

nice idea with the audio- ittle save you major shooting time. The only problem (for us anyway) would be getting the acters back to us for post. Born in Stanford-- nice. Good hospital. i was born in Chicago- at rush, but moved to california. thanks for writing--

corwin.,

(Rush Hospital, not in a rush.)

That not getting your actors back for post dubbing could be interesting, give them diffrent voices or something like that. I think I may try that sometime soon. It doesnt sound too fun to be born in a rush, haha.

You guys are talking $5000 for a feature? Jeez, I'm spending that on a short (and nobody's getting paid)! methinks someone has to have a serious conversation about my budgeting...
... seriously, willing to discuss specifics in email.

Private email me, if you'd like. I can say one thing...you can go a long way with discounts and free gear, plus affordable or free labor. Besides, I'm going from $15,000 to $150,000 on my next feature, mostly because of what's in the script (comic book adaptation vs. indie comedy/drama).

heath

The number 1 rule of any kind of filmmaking is that the costs will expand to fully eat whatever budget you come up with.

If you have $150,000 to shoot a three minute short, you'll somehow find a way to spend the whole $150,000.

It's all relative, too. If I had $250,000 to put into a feature, for example, I would make a feature. Some people I know would use that $250K to make actor offers and the like on the hopes of raising $5 million or so, largely because they don't believe a true film can be made for under $5 million.

It also depends on how you budget and what equipment you have available. I shot a 85-minute feature where the only out-of-pocket costs were a few DV tapes and a couple of lunches. Because I already owned all the equipment I used, it was cheap, but only because I had made some large investments in equipment earlier.

So depending on what you had to work with (and all sorts of other factors), $5,000 may or may not be the "right" amount for a short.

those that have produced 5-10k features ...
where are they now ...
what kind of milage did you get out of them ( as in help you as film maker , or you got work out of it, got a agent etc

those that have produced 5-10k features ...
where are they now ...
what kind of milage did you get out of them ( as in help you as film maker , or you got work out of it, got a agent etc


We've produced two 5-10k features, the way i see it there are so many other aspects to making a film other than the creative ones, essentially a cheap feature needs the same things as a big feature ie actors ,locations ,props ,transport ,food ,crew and time to shoot etc and with both there will be unexpected things that happen that you need to fix.

In my opinion The benefit of making a low budget feature is learning how to manage all aspects of a production that way if someone ever throws you money you have the knowlege and skills you learned on your little feature, the skills are the same except on a bigger scale. That doesnt mean to say that nothing unexpected and scary will happen but it does give you a much more informed idea of what you need to do and allow you to anticipate problems.

So where are we now you ask....we are no further forward in becoming rich or famous other than the fact we have a MUCH better idea of how to make a feature film. We are writing a new script and have shot a 4 min scene from the script in order to try and attract a real budget this time.

Its small steps but you have to make them if you want any kind of a chance in real indie filmmaking, hey we're still young so who knows.

Andy.

My first two features didn't make it to the $5,000 threshold, but both were very valuable to me.

First, they helped me learn filmmaking. There's no substitute for doing. You can read all the books and study all the movies and hear all the stories and you still really don't know what making a movie is like until you make a movie. So there was that aspect of it.

Secondly, seeing my script on screen helped my writing tremendously, which has, no doubt, been a factor in my now being a professional, paid screenwriter and WGA member.

Thirdly, having previous work to show people allayed their fears and helped open their wallets when I wanted to make something that cost a little bit more money. It made me less of an unknown quantity. I don't think I could've made a more expensive feature had I not had those previous features to show as examples.

Finally, they helped me make connections to others. Though nobody was anybody when I started making the first feature, several actors, crew and people the actors and crew know have progressed in the business since then. I've been writing a project now that I wouldn't have even known about it not for an actor I met on my first flick knowing a producer who was looking for someone to write a screenplay for her.

So, I think those first two features did a lot for me, even though neither one of them achieved any distribution or direct revenues on their own.

Ryan,

Ultimately, that's the best thing a microbudgeted movie can do: teach skills, lessons, etc., without losing one's shirt. Great to hear!

heath

Private email me, if you'd like. I can say one thing...you can go a long way with discounts and free gear, plus affordable or free labor. Besides, I'm going from $15,000 to $150,000 on my next feature, mostly because of what's in the script (comic book adaptation vs. indie comedy/drama).

heath

Most of the money that grants will get us will probably be in equptment and stuff, at least, thats what were hoping for. $150,000! Nice.

Grants are a tough issue; I've had friends apply, and they didn't set a specific criteria or demographic. For instance, a lot of grants are for movies with messages, like, don't do drugs, rights, etc.

Plus, most of us AREN'T non-profits, and I can tell you it's a slippery slope to try and be for-profit and take donations, etc.

Heath

it's worth checking out Shane Meadows work, Deadmans shoes and his super low budget feature Le Donk which he shot in 5days on two z1's still cost 25grand though!

I'd suggest take your 5grand and make 5 shorts if I were you