I think the HVR-DR60 is a better option than the firestore just because of the cache recording function. AFAIK, the firestone I had didn't have this function. 14 seconds buffer is a great way to ensure you didn't miss anything while trying to save tape. Sure there's a 0.5 sec delay but a little practice on not hitting the REC button on reaction and it works well. Plus it uses the L batteries like the V1. It can also do relay which extends your recording time by 270 mins with relay recording.

It can also do relay which extends your recording time by 270 mins with relay recording.

Drew, you got me interested - could you elaborate on the above statement? I guess you're talking about recording to DR60 while changing tapes? How do you do it, step by step - because my own experience leaves me a little uncertain: While recording to tape and DR60, can I change tapes without DR60 recording interruption?

In the manual, the 'Relay' function is only used in the context of switching to DR60 while changing tapes, and NOT continuous recording to BOTH...

Drew, you got me interested - could you elaborate on the above statement? I guess you're talking about recording to DR60 while changing tapes? How do you do it, step by step - because my own experience leaves me a little uncertain: While recording to tape and DR60, can I change tapes without DR60 recording interruption?

In the manual, the 'Relay' function is only used in the context of switching to DR60 while changing tapes, and NOT continuous recording to BOTH...

Piotr, obviously if you've read the manual, you cannot record continuously if you stop the camera recording while using camlink. . Relay, as you have read continues recording on the DR60 5 minutes before the end of the tape and will continue until you hit stop so you have 270mins more of recording time without having to stop to change tape. Which is why I meant. Alternatively you can rec using iLink without camera control.and extend 207 minutes after the tape runs out.
That will allow you to change tape, juggle and hit on the pretty woman (or man) next to you while it continues recording. :)

Relay, as you have read continues recording on the DR60 5 minutes before the end of the tape and will continue until you hit stop so you have 270mins more of recording time without having to stop to change tape. Which is why I meant.

Oh, aha :)
But my main question remains unanswered: suppose I'd like to cover a 3 hours event on both 3 tapes AND the DR60. I'm using camlink; the first tape ends - I need to change tapes without DR60 recording interruption - did you try to do that?

Oh, aha :)
But my main question remains unanswered: suppose I'd like to cover a 3 hours event on both 3 tapes AND the DR60. I'm using camlink; the first tape ends - I need to change tapes without DR60 recording interruption - did you try to do that?

I answered it. You record without camlink on the DR60. Then you can do whatever you want to the tape it will still record the iLink signal.

Thanks Drew, I knew about the possibility of recording independently with camlink switched off.

I described my preferred scenario: recording with camlink on (so that I can use the camera start/standby button to control both tape and disk); changing tapes without disk interruption.

The workaround I'm using is switch camlink off when changing tapes, but this is not convenient and causes interruptions, even if only short ones.

Thanks everybody I appreciate your help. Is anyone here using the firestone with this camera?

Tom

Hi Tom,
Have used a Firestore with this cam, it's a great product. It is very heavy by comparison to the DR60, and the V1U can't display the Firestore information in the LCD like it can with the DR60, but it does indeed work fine.

Thanks Drew, I knew about the possibility of recording independently with camlink switched off.

I described my preferred scenario: recording with camlink on (so that I can use the camera start/standby button to control both tape and disk); changing tapes without disk interruption.

The workaround I'm using is switch camlink off when changing tapes, but this is not convenient and causes interruptions, even if only short ones.

I don't understand what interruptions it causes. If you are recording to both and turn off CAMLINK on the DR60, it should continue to record uninterrupted. You can then stop the tape and do whatever you want. Once you are ready, just start recording then turn on CAMLINK again. Once you stop, both units will stop. You just have to work the CAMLINK control to do what you specifically want to do, record to both units.

OK Drew - I'll check this again. So far, what I did was keeping camlink mode on, I waited till the camera stopped recording to the ending tape by itself (didn't push the stop button), replaced the tape, pushed the rec button once - the camera started recording to the new tape. When observing the recording lamp on the DR60 (or rec status on the LCD), it didn't interrupt disk recording - yet, it did divide into scenes (separate files/folders).

Doesn't it split recording when you press camlink on/off? Please let me know; perhaps your way is better:)

Sorry for continuing off topic, but I guess the doubts deserve to be clarified. Well, I checked the method proposed by Drew, i.e. before replacing the tape, pressed the camlink button on the DR60 in order to disconnect the drive from the camera's record button. I replaced the tape and pressed the record button on; recording to tape started OK with that to the DR60 seemingly uninterruped (judging from the red light on the drive, and it's icon on the LCD).

Unfortunately, it in fact WAS interrupted and a new file started on the DR60 - just like with my original method, not involving switching camlink off and on again! So it looks splitting the file on DR60 is inevitable when you start recording to the fresh tape (or more specifically, each time you press the camera's record button) - even if camlink is off, which is strange. Well, at least it doesn't get confused and stop recording to DR60 completely, which it theoretically could (or even should? an intelligent beast it is!) with camlink on...

[edit by moderator]
Piotr, we already established you cannot record to both the DR60 and V1 and stop to change tape (camlink on) without stopping recording to both in Synchro mode. In camlink off, the disruption is minimal but it allows you to use the REC button to control what you shoot.
What I don't understand is that you say you want to control what you shoot but want to shoot continuously without interruption. So why can't you just leave camlink off and record separately in the DR60? It's simple and obvious.

Piotr, we already established you cannot record to both the DR60 and V1 and stop to change tape (camlink on) without stopping recording to both in Synchro mode.

No Drew - you can, actually. When the tape ends it will obviously stop by itself, without the need of you hitting the button. Then you can replace it without even touching the drive, or disconnecting the camlink.

After loading new tape, you have to press the rec button of course - and this is the only instant when DR60 splits the recorded file. All this without ever switching camlink off! And why I prefer to have it on? Well, because it's more convenient to use one start/stop button than two, it's simple and obvious:)

What's not that obvious is that even with camlink off, once you hit the record button to start recording to the new tape, the DR60 will start another file, as well! The firewire stream must be getting broken by pressing the rec button...

PS. Thanks, Spot.

No Drew - you can, actually. When the tape ends it will obviously stop by itself, without the need of you hitting the button. Then you can replace it without even touching the drive, or disconnecting the camlink.

After loading new tape, you have to press the rec button of course - and this is the only instant when DR60 splits the recorded file. All this without ever switching camlink off! And why I prefer to have it on? Well, because it's more convenient to use one start/stop button than two, it's simple and obvious:)
.
I guess we are not communicating properly. You want the DR60 to do something it can't and I'm just trying you a workaround which you already know and don't like. I personally would not record until the tape ends. That's why I bought a harddisk recorder.
And Tom I do apologize for giving wrong information. The FS4 Pro HD has a retro cache system link the Sony one (but better), it records 10 seconds back and the FS4 HD has 6 seconds. The better part is there is no interruption in recording when you hit REC. Whereas the DR60 drops 0.5 seconds of material. In Retro Disk Mode, the FS4 can be programmed to record continuously in loops that depend on available drive space.
I just played with it and it's definitely much better than the older model I had. Piotr, this hard drive recorder may suit your needs better.

I was thinking about putting this to the Vegas forum, but since it's V1/DR60 specific I decided not to add a new thread, as this one has the right header already. Is it just me, or is Vegas 7.0e buggy in how it assembles single .m2t's from those, written to a folder by DR60? I mean, when you use the 'Import->Hard Disk Recording Unit' option, and there are several files in a specific DR60 directory (due to the disk cache being on, or filesize exceeding 4GB) - at import process Vegas will make a single clip per directory and put them all into Project Media bin for you... Which is all very nice, except that the clips are unusable! I did a wedding last night, and - after trying to use the clips, glued automatically by Vegas - I gave up because of it hanging and being unable to put the clips on the time line. I copied each m2t file one by one manually from the DR60 and they are all perfectly fine, so it's Vegas spoiling them for sure...

Anybody experience this as well? Or do I have to re-install, or... simple not use this feature? I mean, I'd miss it because it makes the workflow so much easier!

Are you importing the files in Vegas, or merely trying to edit the file structure as Vegas creates it? I don't have this problem at all, but then again, I transfer everything before I begin working on it.

So far, I also copied all files, folder by folder, from the DR60 to my folder structure of choice (usually, one folder per project). Starting with two minor revisions ago (now I have 7.0e), the option 'Import->Hard Disk Recording Unit' was added. Using it, you can have Vegas scan through all the folders on the DR60 and copy all m2t's for you; if there are several in a single directory, it'll glue them together, so you end up with one clip per subdirectory (it's documented in "What's new in Veags 7.0e"). Those glued clips are unusable - neither on Vegas own time line, nor in Premiere for instance. Their structure is corrupted - for instance, I got a 12 GB clip (wedding ceremony) which Vegas glued from 3 files; when I put it on Vegas timeline it just hangs; when I put it to Premiere's timeline - I have full 1 hour worth in the source monitor, but just 2 mins in the recorder monitor, and Premiere also hangs...It's the same with all files - also those much shorter ones.

Note: the first time I noticed this behaviour after using my DR60 in cache mode for the first time, so it's possible the short files from the cache spoil the output clips; the "progressive' flag also seems to be lost in the concatenation process!

I have already emailed Sony and am waiting for the answer.

Are you importing the files in Vegas, or merely trying to edit the file structure as Vegas creates it? I don't have this problem at all, but then again, I transfer everything before I begin working on it.

I am glad I'm not the only one who has experienced problems when importing files from my DR60. I have tried what I think Spot has described, but still can't get the assembled files to work.

I transfer the whole file structure from the DR60 to my firewire drive (a Western Digital 500GB "My Book") and try importing into Vegas that way. Still get a corrupted, unusable file. I have given up on it, and work with the separate 4GB files.

Spot, are you doing something that we're not? I sure would like to figure this out.

BTW-- I am using the DR60 with a V1U, so hopefully this is still relevant to this thread.

Are you importing the files in Vegas, or merely trying to edit the file structure as Vegas creates it? I don't have this problem at all, but then again, I transfer everything before I begin working on it.

Frankly, I don't understand DSE's comment, either. Of course I'm trying to import from DR60 to my local drive using Vegas 'Import->Hard Disk Recording Unit' option (which produces corrupted files if concatenated by Vegas); so - that obvious method being unusable - I end up copying the multidute of files myself to my local drive, one by one, which is tedious but leaves the files intact, thus usable.

Douglas, could you please update us whether you have actually used the Vegas import functionality with success (i.e. with concatenated clips working properly in the time line)?

I have found this on the Sony DR-60 utility download page:

"Some NLEs, such as Sony Vegas 7 (version 7.0c and later) and GrassValley EDIUS Pro4.5, have an import module that lets you import files directly from the HVR-DR60 to your PC’s hard drive. During the import process, these software will merge all divided .M2T files into a single, seamless .M2T file. "

The utility (BTW, only able to glue the 4GB chunks; not the short files from cache) should not be needed with Vegas, yet I cannot get uncorrupted files if I let Vegas glue them...

I have found a site that Piotr replay "Sony DR-60 utility download page"

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/minisites/HDV_DR60/HVRDR60/soft.html

May be this will solved the problem. Im still thinking wanted to get the DR60? YES or NO to wait for 2nd version. looking at all the post from V1 user. :(

The utility is properly connecting the 4GB chunks on DR60, created due to its FAT32 limitation. It won't append a disk cache 14sec file though.

However, the beauty of importing a single, merged file per folder into the Vegas project media bin is still a pie in the sky for me.

Just to update those interested/affected by the same problem:

- even though the Prime Support fot Dr60 couldn't recreate my problems, they send a loan unit and I used it the exactly the same way as my own; when importing to Vegas the result was the same (i.e. the large file produced by Vegas merging the partial clips was corrupt)

- also, the Vegas SCS support admitted at last that the problem has now the full attention of developers, and will hopefully be solved in the nearest VP8.0 update!

Let's cross the fingers:)