Hey, guys. This post may come stupid to you, but after two month of research I came to the decision that XL2 is better than A1.
Well, how I came to that: I been watching samples, short films a s o and must say that I dont like all those made by A1.

I finally managed to come to money for camera, but if I get the A1 and ll be disappointed i gonna kill myself ;)

I m just curious whether I am on the right way with my decision: XL2


I dont know :(

Edit: here example you can see that everytime the adapter is on there are dark corners
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=97222

I shot a lot of footage with the XL2 for a friend, and after I got the XH A1 I started using it, and he said the XH A1's footage looks better. For him all I shoot is 24f SD. He put away his XL2 and bought an XH A1.

I'd actually choose an XL1-S over an XL2...and no question, an XH-A1 over both of them.

No contest there. Tons more resolution and fantastic image quality. Like buying a Canon 1-DS MKII instead of the Digital Rebel.

that's what I dont understand: now all of ye say a1 > xl2. But I see something else: Xl2 + letusXL does wonders. All the clips shot on A1 do not come close to it.
1. A1 footages have dark corners (i really dont like them)(maybe because of the stock lense which cant be removed)
2. Xl2 seems to have better cine look (at least for me)
3. And A1 clips are looking darker. (sunny day appears as dawn)
I really dont see anything good in a1, maybe, just because i dont have it ;D

I dont know :(

I am up to make a full length film. No doubt that a1 wins over xl2 without 35 adapter. But as soon as I see an adapter attached to a1, i stop liking it, and that's why I turn to xl2.

Dark corners, dark picture....help =/

Obviously in the footage you saw, the adapter wasn't properly attached if you saw vignetting, and if it was dark, the exposure was wrong.

I think you'd be mad to buy an XL2... if you're going to spend that much money, go the little bit extra and get an A1.

A1 hands down!!!

I had an XL1s before upgrading to the XH-A1. Everyone I know who sees what I shoot now marvels at how good the images look! I'm in love. Also consider that HDV is really the wave of the future for smaller cameras, and handicapping yourself with SD only will bite you in the long run. I've yet to see Canon make a bad camera, so the XL2 isn't a bad choice, but I wouldn't say it is the best choice.

It is not about SD or HD, i dont really give a damn what it is. I even think I prefer SD (just dont want to wait week until one scene is rendered in 3D max)
Amount of pixels is not what makes a good camera. I mean I have 1megapixel digicam and 3mp cam on cellphone and 1mp digicam pictures look a long way better.

Another try: ive just watched dozens of XH A1 clips here on the forum (canon XH A1 samples forum) and only a few had no dark corners. I see the same on HV20 (here all clips i saw (with 35mm adapter) had dark corners). XL2 does not have them.

just cant be that all of them mounted the adapter wrong....

and most of the shots look too sharp like with 10 bucks digicam.

I think the last thing I could do is renting the cams for one day (but in that case without an adapter). I just dont see other escape.

Thank you for answering and trying to help. thanks alot

I guess you're watching different clips from the ones I've seen on here, including the one with a Letus. I haven't seen any dark corners or overly enhanced edges. If you prefer the XL2, then buy it.

Ok here a link

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=97222

It is just one video, becaus I didnt want to waste another day for downloading all the videos. Looking closely you can notice that everytime the adapter is on there is light loss at corners.


And it is not like I prefer xl2. I hear everyone say A1 is superb and that is the camera I want to buy. But what I see in all the reels really concerns me.

It looks like he's catching part of his mattebox in the edges of the frame.

Look at this clip, also with Letus/XH A1:

http://www.pinelakefilms.com/XHA1/glenn_720.wmv

thx for reply, i already have it on my desktop. it is one of two videos which dont have them (the other is a music video).

John,
You can only judge from your own preferences and image requirements. I'd suggest you try to get your hands on each of the cameras to properly judge image quality. I moved from the Panasonic DVX100 to the Canon A1 and much prefer my A1. The DVX is a fine camera but no comparison. I have not had any experience with the XL1 or XL2 but I would suggest that you not base your decision on compressed QT or WMV movies since they are not representative of the cameras full capability.

With regard to Steven Demsey's clips ( re: pinelakefilms.com) he is a real master at using this camera and I see no evidence of dark edges, but in all fairness, he does crop them to something like 2.35:1.

Best of luck in your final decision. For me, HD is the future.

I think i made a decision: I'll wait for the next canon cameras. Maybe there'll be something like H1, but not as expensive as it. (I read Steven sold his H1, maybe he is and you all are right that a1 is a wonder, I'll think again)
and anyways thank you all for replies

regards

Hi John. I moved from XL2 to A1 last december, and I totally agree with you that the XL2 is better for SD. The pictures are somehow more solid with the XL2 and don't have that shifting/smearing of fine details that happens sometimes with the A1 when you move the camera.

But I would probably agree with your decision to wait for the next generation of cameras to come along, if you don't need it now. The market for SD must be winding down so buying an expensive SD camera doesn't look like a good idea. Or maybe you could pick up a cheap second-hand XL2?

Richard

It is not about SD or HD, i dont really give a damn what it is. I even think I prefer SD (just dont want to wait week until one scene is rendered in 3D max)

3DMax? Am I missing something? Since when did that become an edit app?

Bill

Hi John. I moved from XL2 to A1 last december, and I totally agree with you that the XL2 is better for SD. The pictures are somehow more solid with the XL2 and don't have that shifting/smearing of fine details that happens sometimes with the A1 when you move the camera.

Richard

Richard I have just posted a question relating to the smearing problem you mentioned, does this happen in HD too?

3DMax? Am I missing something? Since when did that become an edit app?

Bill


if you add some matrix bullet effects or explosions or i dunno what else, you have to render it into movie with MAX. A desktop pc needs days of time to render HD shots with reflection/refraction (like matrix bullet effects). With SD you need 1/4 of time you would need with HD to render the same scene.

You surely work more with premiere final cut and vegas, but Ive always used max for everything: from text on screen to color correction, motion blur, to special effects, just everything^^

OK, new Quad Cores from Intel do wonders, but I am not up to buy a new computer. (btw in December new Inter's 45nm CPU are coming)

regards

Ahh... ok sorry. You made no mention of any 3D compositing, so it read a bit funny to me.

Bill

Richard I have just posted a question relating to the smearing problem you mentioned, does this happen in HD too?

Yes indeed, but there seems to be only a small number of users who report seeing this. I think it is most likely inherent to HDV encoding, but I would be willling (and happy) to find out it is something I am doing wrong while shooting.

Richard

Thanks Richard, my footage was actually shot in SD.

Here is the link to my original question

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=100953&goto=newpost

when something is broadcast or projected, there is typically anywhere from a 5% to a 20% crop from the source image.

if you’re going to shoot a "film-like" project, "dark corners" will be the least of your worries. You'll be cropping out boom mikes, crew, and lights... on a good day.

don't judge a camera based on how it performs with a third party adapter.

nobody in the A1 group is going to tell you to buy the XL2.

and for the record, the amount of pixels has quite a bit to do with image quality.

i just shot this clip below in grand cayman – HDV to SD, 24f, Canon WA. i've included
a wide range of shots to show color, dof, skin tones, bright and low light, and range.

The XL1 or 2 does not come close to the image quality of the A1. Any grain present is due to the stream. The source is crystal clear.

http://uncutvideo.aol.com/videos/312c34f3eac47b71616ac80ea9898245?index=0

eric-

those were lovely images. thank u for sharing your efforts.

as someone who has not had a single client ask for hd, i'm still working in the world of sd. my work is usually screened at presentations or has been used for ntsc sd broadcast. that said, i'm still looking at the a1 but mostly for sd acquisition (and for any hd that rolls my way)

based on your obvious ability to extract lovely images from the a1, would you please explain some of your workflow, specifically the presets used on the interior and exterior shots AND most importantly, the propose of down-converting the hdv into sd.

sorry if i've asked a newbie-ish question. i'm still doing my homework.

thanks in advance

be well

rob katz
harvest films

Rob,

I was actually in the same situation when I picked up the A1. The cam performs best in HDV. The SD options are pretty much useless if you’re coming from another Canon prosumer model. I’d advise against shooting anything in SD with it, but HDV and the HDV to SD is outstanding.

My workflow is to record in HDV- either 60i or 24f depending on the subject. I don’t really use presets. I’ve created my own on the fly, mostly just adding some saturation.
The color temp controls are usually enough in most cases.. and to be on the safe side I try to shoot as flat as possible. I use Vegas 4 and 7 and add any color correction in post. Everything on my sample is right from the cam. I just shot it and it’s still on my timeline.

For SD down, I import with an HV20 and set it for DV OUT. It down converts the 24f material nicely and I can also monitor the HDV version via the HDMI. Once in Vegas, it’s just like editing SD/.avi, but with more options. With the pixel ratio you can do 16x9, 4x3, or 4x3 with a 16x9 mask and implement some track motion.

I will also go back and selectively cap some HDV footage for HD B-Roll.

For the spa interiors, I was at 1/48 shutter and even down to 1/24 at times with db from 0 to +3. I used mostly natural lighting to preserve the ambience of the spa. In the darker areas I used a single 200w lamp bounced off the ceiling and set the color temp a bit warmer in-camera. The cam is quite clean in low light, though I wouldn’t push it past +6.

Exterior was shot at 1/48 with the in-camera ND to 1/32 at 0db. F-Stop was probably 2-5.
Some of those shots may have been in 60i too with typical settings.

I’m also overexposing my shots by a notch or two. I find I get cleaner results.

If you are on the fence about the A1, don’t be. It’s an amazing cam with tremendous features. In the right hands - for HD it performs just as well as anything you would see on broadcast and for SD it will take your work to a whole new level. Just don’t shoot in “Auto” anything. As a professional, I’m sure you will be in Manual anyway…. just a heads up that the auto features are horrendous.

Also, be prepared to drop some coin. Some “must have” additional items will probably include the Canon Wide Angle, an HV20, a Lanc remote, HD monitors, and a whole new computer when you become addicted to the HD footage.