Hi...I am currently using a JVC 51OO to shoot my weddings and am quite thrilled with its overall performance and color scheme..well my question is related to the gy-hd200 performance? I am making a transition from sd to hdv and was jut wondering if the camera's low light performance is "acceptable"...are there any problems or things I would need to watch out for....I know it won't be close to what the 5100 has to offer since it has a bigger CCD but would I be losing a lot of ground when it comes to low-light performance?

I found it to be very borderline with its low-light performance on a number of occasions, especially in exterior shots.

you must think of your deliverable product you wish to attain, I've got some weddings lined up, but really for a wedding I think your better off with the SD camera with a large chip vs a small chip HD camera, there are a few postings of weddings in this forum with results from this camera, I think most are outside though.
If you work with your own extra lighting as a rule, then go for it, but if you work with at the most a on-camera light, fine for close up and personal, stay with the SD camera and maybe hire a HD cam for people who request specifically for it.
I'm currently getting my workstation together, I'll post a heap of stuff from my outback escapades soon.

(edit - oh yeh, I own a HD251, but have shot with 1/2 SD cams, and even though I'm generally happy with the JVC, when it comes to low light stuff, when you see it back to back you'll see the difference is quite noticeable)

Regards

Adam

This was shot with a HD200 yesterday evening, at a wedding, outside, in low light, by someone who doesn't know shy*t from shynola. Surely someone who can speak openly about the size of their chip, could do a lot better.

Hope it helps.

http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Steph_wed/Drink_16.5-75mm_f5.6_1ND_100Shtr_30fps.jpg

Sorry about the wrong post..I am new to the site; therefore I didn't know there was section available for weddings and stuff.....by the way..Do any of you know if JVC has any plans of making a HDV camera with a 1/2" CCD....well I always make sure I use my lights during a shoot...both my lights are soft lights with 600watts a piece and I also have a 25watt light on top of my camera....I am hoping this would be enough to accomodate for the "decent" low light capabilities of gy-hd200

you posted in the right place, I'm just mentioning if you do a search, there's been a few posts which have grabs and footage from this camera.

As I said, I'll end up using my camera for some wedding stuff, but I really bought it for documentary/commercial work. My line of reasoning with this camera is if your in a church for example which won't allow you to bring extra lighting in, then if thats your bread and butter then as you would be aware, light sensativity would be king.

I'm sure there's a lot of guys here who could prob even show in this thread some work, I'll hopefully as I said find time this week to get my workstation up, I did a interview recently in a 100year old farm shearing shed with nothing but a vidled and a bit of ambient light.

Regards

Adam

Sorry about the wrong post..I am new to the site; therefore I didn't know there was section available for weddings and stuff.....by the way..Do any of you know if JVC has any plans of making a HDV camera with a 1/2" CCD....well I always make sure I use my lights during a shoot...both my lights are soft lights with 600watts a piece and I also have a 25watt light on top of my camera....I am hoping this would be enough to accomodate for the "decent" low light capabilities of gy-hd200

The Sony is coming up with an XDCam EX, which has 1/2" CCD's, and is priced around 8000 dollars. Coming in november or something.

You can see an HD demo of a wedding shot with 2 HD200's here...

http://www.weddingsonfilm.com/demo_12.htm

There's also some super 8 film mixed in there.

Low light is not a problem if you dial down the shutter speed.

Some beautiful footage there, Justin. You put plenty of guys to shame with that!

Some beautiful footage there, Justin. You put plenty of guys to shame with that!

Thanks Antony, it takes a long time to get it that tight!

Anyway- the JVC's are fine for low light events like weddings in case anyone was wondering. I'm working on another one with EXTREME low light which will be up on the website in a day or two. I thought we were in trouble when we shot the ceremony but it's turning out quite fine with a lot of postproduction.

Coming from 1/2 inch chips I thought the HD 100/200 series would suffer from lack of DOF with it's 1/3 inchers- but I was way off.

I use the HD100 which is pretty much the same as far as low light performance.

It's not great but it's not terrible either. I always bring my IDX X-3 camera light when I do weddings or shots at night. The light coupled with 9db gain seems to produce very good results for anything within a 15 foot range.

If you want any kind of color detail, you are going to need a light no matter what type of camera you use.

Akbar,

HDV cameras right now, on any brand of small chip camera, are not even close to the low light abilities of a 1/2" sd camera. But there are ways to make the camera work in low light.

You'll notice a major shooting difference from what you're doing with the 5100. Right now you hit a dark area or a dark reception and you probably just open the iris and flip on your on camera light. Maybe you even add a little gain of 3 or 6 db because it looks fine right? With any hdv camera you'll be doing all of that plus knocking down your shutter rate to 30/sec. And you'll also need to start using a 50 or 75watt bulb because 25 watts diffused won't make a scratch on the quality of the footage. This holds for all the current hdv cameras whether it's the jvc, or any other brand. Hdv needs a lot more light than sd.

Of the current lot of cameras, the jvc probably makes the best tranistion from outdoor, well lit footage, to indoor, dark footage. If you start shooting your material at 30fps, when it gets dark and you have to lower the shutter to a 30th/sec., you'll notice virtually no difference in the look of the footage. Try that with a 1080i camera that's shooting at a 60th/sec. outdoors and then a 30th indoors and it's like night and day. And honestly, once I bought my jvc and started using it full time at 30fps I really started to like the feel of the footage that it produced.

I've shot some excellent footage at receptions. But it's only looks good as long as the on camera light is hitting the subject. You definitely lose a lot of the background detail that you could have had in sd.

If Sony comes through on their talk of the EX cam then that will be a very good camera to look at. But right now in the current market, I think that the JVC is the best suited camera to handle low light situations.

Ben

Thanks Ben for the detailed response...definitely put things into perspective...as a matter of fact I must say I am quite amazed with all the valuable information posted on this forum...THANK YOU ALL....I am just suprised I never came across this forum before....but better late than never =)....my initial plan for purchasing the hdv camera was within the year's end....I have never doubted JVC's ability to produce good cameras....I'll wait and see what sony has to offer..and If sony comes out with a 1/2" ccd then I am sure JVC will too.....quite excited now =)..thanks all of you.

Previously on this forum I posted my experiences shooting with the HD200 in DV mode. I said I thought the video was dark and fuzzy.
Well, I realized that was because my back focus was slightly off and I was importing the video into my AVID with bad video levels. I corrected the settings, and now the pics I import look very good. The colors are very rich. Sure, the blacks are crushed compared to 2/3" chip cams but I just have to be more careful with the settings when I import and boost the black levels. I've shot several commercials in DV mode and I'm happy with the results. More importantly, my clients are happy.
Lately, I've been shooting HDV in our Sony Z1 and importing it as standard def into my AVID (it's not HD capable) via component cables. The results are simply amazing. As soon as I can get my hands on a JVC deck, I'll do the same with my HD200. I'm getting a Mac G5 with FCP 2 installed soon. I'll then go full HDV on all my shoots.
I'm very impressed with the HD200.

Hi Glen

why don't you just get a DR-HD100 you won't need a deck to do HDV

just a thought
joe

Akbar,

With any hdv camera you'll be doing all of that plus knocking down your shutter rate to 30/sec. And you'll also need to start using a 50 or 75watt bulb

Ben

My IDX only draws 10 watts. However, it's supposed to be equivalent to a 35w lamp. It consists of 3 LED's, so it's very bright without drawing much power.

I am very interested in your comment about dropping the shutter down to 1/30th for night shooting. I always use the standard 1/60th. I am a bit worried about it looking a bit strobbed out but it sounds like it really helps the performance. I haven't had the nerve to try it yet. I suppose it's a good compromise.

I've always felt that my night footage looked decent because of the camera light but it has that sterile 60i framerate look. Maybe the slower shutter will give it more of that "progressive" punch which seems to be lost when shooting at night.

Hi Glen

why don't you just get a DR-HD100 you won't need a deck to do HDV

just a thought
joe

Well, that is on my wish list. I guess I'm old fashioned, but I like the permanence of tapes, especially for archiving purposes. For the commercial shoots I do, that is a must. I know, I can record to tape and a hard drive at the same time, but for me, a deck will do for now.
Also, my equipment dealer told me there's been problems with the Firestore for our cameras, something to do with overheating and corrupting the files. He told me not to rely on them too much. I don't know how true that statement is, but since it came from a guy who could have made some bucks selling me one, that made me hold off on the purchase.
But I'm open to input from you guys. Has anyone had issues with the Firestore device? Is it a more sensible purchase over the record deck?

(edit - heading should be shutterspeed, I only just finished my coffee!) I'll post some clips, I know I know, once I get my server up I shot in PAL DV 16:9, and will show you what a difference the changing shutter speed does. I'm shooting a cowboy on his horse in a river with a whip which is on fire, and I changed the shutter speed through each step at 50/25/12.5/6.5 per sec, I think 6.5 was the slowest, this gave the impression the flame was a meteorite, it also shows how much more ambient light you capture and also how much more juddery things get when slow shutter is used, 1/25 would be similar to the 1/30 in that its useable if things are not high action, keeping in mind I was also shooting 25P.
Having said that, I'm sure if you go outside and do something similar you'd soon see the effect and how much you can get away with .

Regards

Adam

I've just come from the Australian outback, and he drdh100 performed flawlessly except one thing. This comes under the title of "How to die over and over inside", which is a lesson to all I guess.

Heres my lesson : I was in the Australian outback doing my own doco, and as an aside run into a cowboy who wants me to shoot a promo dvd for him at a rodeo.
Anyway here I am thinking I'd just be shooting some tricks and stuff with his horses and whips etc, and on day one it's, "ok we've got a chopper coming in, your going to shoot me riding over the top of a rocky outcrop". So here I am in a RU22 2 seat chopper which is used for cattle mustering that's so small I can't put the camera on my shoulder or I hit the pilot in the head, so I sit it on my lap.
Push record before take off thinking, no way I'm going to forget to hit record on this. I had a strap of a sports bag which I looped through the handle and around my neck, and effectively half hang out of the cockpit to get the shot, well I reckon I did pretty good and nailed it, I only reckon, because somewhere in flight, somewhere near takeoff, whilst the camera was sitting on my lap which was how I did the shot due to lack of room, I must have hit the record button and just after take off was where my video journey stopped!!
I was so worried about dropping my camera out the window as I wasn't really prepared to be hanging out of a chopper that I didn't notice either one of two things, either I had my arm over the camera and moved the firewire cable which broke signal and stopped the record, or a hit the record button.
Now I think there's a possibility it's the firewire, because after having everybody come back to review the footage that night (where I subsequently sank through the floor in absolute shame ) there was nothing to see, lucky I could go up again to get the shot 2 days later. And this time the whole flight I was making sure our friend the red record symbol was in my viewfinder which it was. So I go to review the files on a laptop this time before I show the client (so I could escape quickly and run - joke - or maybe not??) but the drdh100 only got me taking off and missed the horse run over the ridge. But I recorded to tape and my heart started up again.
So lesson to the masses, when recording make sure that firewire doesn't get knocked or leaned on because if you break signal you aint capturing no more! Now to some players here it may be common sense, but to those who maybe aren't familiar which such equipment keep an eye on it. Other than that it performed flawlessly in a hot, dry and dusty environment over a period of 5 weeks, just wish I had the 100Gb and not the 60Gb, but as we all know the $ sometimes drives decisions.
Oh yeh, for what it's worth shooting from a chopper is hard- simply because it's not a stable platform, and the one I was in only was 400kg or 800lbs and we were (on the 2nd time round !) blown all over the shop. I'd like to try more chopper work from something bigger and with more planning on my behalf.

Regards

Adam

I would like to mention that putting a record button on the handle is pure stupidity. I can't say how many times I ended up burning through ten mintutes of tape because I was carrying the camera around. There is also a danger of hitting record (on purpose) when you have actually just stopped recording cause you hit the button on the handle.

My 2 cents.

[QUOTE=I'm getting a Mac G5 with FCP 2 installed soon. I'll then go full HDV on all my shoots.
I'm very impressed with the HD200.[/QUOTE]

Howcome you are not getting the new Mac Pros...trust me you won't regret having dual chips with a total of 4 cores or possibly 8 cores...depends on which one you choose....though the G5's will definitely get the job done for you?

thanks for sharing your grief guys. Now I don't feel half as incompetent. The other day I cut half the lawn before I realized I never started the damn mower. Too much practicing with the camera I think...

haha, that's happened to me before... with the mower i mean...

;-)

Howcome you are not getting the new Mac Pros...trust me you won't regret having dual chips with a total of 4 cores or possibly 8 cores...depends on which one you choose....though the G5's will definitely get the job done for you?

I thought a G5 was a Mac Pro. I'm not that big on editing. I prefer field work. I still don't know how to use After Affects. Anyway, I didn't pick it, the company I work for did. Heck, I'm just happy to get it. It has 4 cores, anyway.
This will be the third FCP editing system at work. The other two guys are very happy with their new editors. As long as it can ingest 720P HDV, I don't care if my NLE is made by Mattel!

I would like to mention that putting a record button on the handle is pure stupidity. I can't say how many times I ended up burning through ten mintutes of tape because I was carrying the camera around. There is also a danger of hitting record (on purpose) when you have actually just stopped recording cause you hit the button on the handle.


Hmm...maybe I'm missing something here but the "record lock" switch on the handle is there for a reason.

Hi Glen

I have not had my Dr 100 that long, but i have never had a problem with it

like youself i live in fla and i'm in south fla (HOT) the DR 100 does run a little hot
but at about 40/cel a small fan kicks in. i also had concerns about over heating so in call Focus Enchancements talk to 2 tech.
they said this is not a problem with firestores.
I do know that a lot people on this site use's them

but good luck on what ever you do
Joe

I thought a G5 was a Mac Pro. I'm not that big on editing. I prefer field work. I still don't know how to use After Affects. Anyway, I didn't pick it, the company I work for did. Heck, I'm just happy to get it. It has 4 cores, anyway.
This will be the third FCP editing system at work. The other two guys are very happy with their new editors. As long as it can ingest 720P HDV, I don't care if my NLE is made by Mattel!


Nope..the G5's use the IBM made chips wihle the Mac Pro's use the Intel chips...since you said that it has 4 cores its very likely a Mac Pro...you knwo I myself have been trying to learn After Effects for ages...I got the version 6.5 and I have yet to get past the "beginner" level....Its just sooo much information you get lost from the start....if you ask me personally, its a good software (only if you spend countless hours mastering the thing) but it definitely needs a lot of work when it comes to end-user functionality......I guess you can say I am not a very big Adobe fan....Happy with Motion and FCP =)

Hmm...maybe I'm missing something here but the "record lock" switch on the handle is there for a reason.

OH you're missing something, alright. And that's if the record lock is engaged and the camera is OFF (not recording) then you cannot use that button to turn it on! AHHHHHIIIIEEEEEE!

8=]

Thanks Antony, it takes a long time to get it that tight!

Anyway- the JVC's are fine for low light events like weddings in case anyone was wondering. I'm working on another one with EXTREME low light which will be up on the website in a day or two. I thought we were in trouble when we shot the ceremony but it's turning out quite fine with a lot of postproduction.

Coming from 1/2 inch chips I thought the HD 100/200 series would suffer from lack of DOF with it's 1/3 inchers- but I was way off.

Hi Justin,
Wonderful job with that. Love your work. How do you get the video quality so high on the net. What settings have you encoded the video?
Greetings from Australia
Dennis

Hi Justin,
Wonderful job with that. Love your work. How do you get the video quality so high on the net. What settings have you encoded the video?
Greetings from Australia
Dennis

I actually shoot at 720p60 but the online vids are 30fps becuase 60fps makes such a large file. Other than that it's just a simple encode using compressor at medium quality H.264. I'm pretty sure that they look good also because I digitize and work in Apple ProRes so the source file is theoretically equivalent to 422 uncompressed. Also, there is a quite a bit of color work there to make things pop.

Hi Akbar Ukani and all!

I just bought the JVC 5100 camcorder (used) from a company. They say it has approx 10 hours on the ehads and has been used three times. For some reason, I can not white balance the camcorder? I'm pretty new to this stuff, and this camcorder is pretty advanced for e.

Can anyone offer any tips for achieving the best image? White balance?

Akbar,
how does your image look so good? How do you white balance? I hope I didnt bite off more than I can chew :(

I learned the hard way. When the shot is irreplaceable...never rely on firewire. Back it with tape.

I posted this on another thread before I found this one. Hopefully, someone has some insight:

1. I like what I'm reading about the HD200, it sounds like a good unit. However, I need to know if it can be tweaked to closely match a Panasonic AG-DV200p about 3-4 times a year.

2. I edit with Xpress Pro, and Avid tells me it'll accept 720p/60 from the HD200, but I can't find the camera on their list of approved devices. I read on a forum that the camera must be connected to the host firewire port instead of the Mojo during capture, but can anyone out there confirm success in getting Xpress Pro to communicate with the GY-HD200U? Were you able to batch-capture? Any tips, tricks, or warnings for me?

3. Lastly, has anyone tried putting the HD200 on a Manfrotto Fig Rig? Was it worth the expense?


Looking forward to your input.

thanks.

tim

Tim: your questions really belong in a new thread (unlike some actual new threads...)
Quickly...
1/ yes, if you do it yourself (hint use a quality colorchart)
2/ Avid does not play nicely with 720p HDV. You'll need to transcode footage, or capture with hardware (choose time-consuming or expensive) with AVID.
3/ These cameras don't have image stabilizing and are too big to be practical with the figrig. Also, it's not a taste for everybody - personally I'd look at alternatives.

Re low light with the hd200 - it's the 3rd page and I can't beleive no one mentioned...
Tim Dashwoods scene file presets. The one for low light REALLY WORKS.
It's very clean, preserves color. Looks better than adding gain, but you can add gain as well, although here it's a bit more grainy than grain alone (with added light).
Chip size doesn't always correlate directly to better light performance, but going to HD seems to be an across the board decrease in low-light performance. The tricks to work in reduced light are covered pretty well here, but then, I was using these with my GY-DV500 already, which was an awesome low-light performer already. There is an adjustment to the point you say "there is not enough light to take good video"

Re low light with the hd200 - it's the 3rd page and I can't beleive no one mentioned...
Tim Dashwoods scene file presets. The one for low light REALLY WORKS.



100% Sean..

Thanks so much for your input, Sean. Item #2 was not what I wanted to hear, but definitely what I needed to hear.
Since I'm already committed to Xpress Pro for post, do you have any suggestions, or should I abandon all hope of editing HD?

tim