Digital still camera with the best movie mode capability
 

I was looking at the Canon S2 IS awhile ago. It can do 640 X 480 @30FPS. The size of the movie is only limited by the size of the SD card on that model. Now Canon has the S3 IS, still the same 640 X 480 @30FPS, but max movie size is 1GB. I wonder why they changed that? My question is which digital still camera with big lens has the best movie mode capability?

I think you'll find all the Canon's have the 1 gig max rec limit, inc the S2.

The Canon A620 camera has a superb movie mode, however there is no way to lock the exposure. If you can live without that you'll be very happy. With a 4 gig SD card you'll get around 32 mins recording time.

I went with the S80 in the end, it has more manual controls and an XGA movie mode, alas only 15 fps. I plan on shooting a music video with it later this month.

With some cameras you can zoom in/out during recording, while others lock out any focal length changes. That's well worth looking into.

Good luck on your video. I am interested to see how it turns out. To me a compact digi camera with a good movie mode is a fabulous tool. I hope the manufacturers will have wide screen movie mode soon.

Thanks, I think the Canon S2 IS has that.

Canon S1-is
 

I have used the Canon S1-is for a little over 2 years and purchased it specifically because of its amazing video abilities. In fact, that little camera has served as a backup camera for one of my weddings. The camera's sound is ... lacking... but its video is amazing.

First off, the S1-is has an optically stabalized lense. This is a great advantage to non-trip filming.

Secondly is the 30fps. Unless footage is slowed down you will like the quality of video smoothness.

Resolution. 640x480. A little bit smaller than the standard MiniDV of 720x480, but this only adds two small black bars on the side of the picture.

Battery life: Very very good. I can go through 300-400 pictures (no flash) on a single set of 4 high mAmp batteries (I use >=2200mAmp rechargables). A single pack of batteries might run you $20, but I have used the same pack dozens of times, saving many dollars over the constant purchasing of throwaway E2 batteries.

Zoom while recording. This was the single most important feature I considered when looking at still photo cams that also do video. Few other cameras have this feature and I consider it vital in order for the video functionality to be remotely usefull. With out it any camera with video is nearly useless in dynamic / changing filming.

The S2-IS is no doubt even better in most regards. Bigger zoom is one of them. Have you considered the S3-is? Not too many upgrades when compared to the S2, but significant upgrades (still photo only) when compared to the S1. Regarding their video functionality, nothing has changed sincethe S1 so I would expect them to perform about the same. Check out <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/">this site</A> for some good reviews of all digital still cameras including the very valuable side-by-side comparison of features / specs.

jason

15fps
 

I ruled out any still photo camera that only recorded 15fps. Just not usefull. I would rather have a camera that did not do video if my only other options is choppy 15fps video. It just seemed like doign video 1/2 way. Literally.

jason

Sanyo Xacti
 

I think Sanyo has the most versatile option for digital still/video cameras. I think the best choices are the C6 (6MP/640x480 30fps) and the HD1 (5MP/1280x720 30fps, 640x480 60fps).

Panasonic has a 16:9 stills camera with movie mode limited to the capacity of the card. Don't know about sound capabilities...
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0507/05..._lx1.asp#specs

The Canon S2 IS has a 1/2.5 inch CCD. Does that mean even in video mode it has good DOF vs. high end prosumer video cameras which has smaller 1/3 inch CCDs.

Wow, that could be the ticket. Thanks for the info.

Stephen - No matter what digital still camera you choose, the key requirement is the mjpeg data rate. The Canons rec around 1.8 mb/sec, which is currently the best on the market, I would say go with the new S3 IS.

For those interested in editing the canon movies on FCP, get a free utility called "Divxdoctor 2" - this will convert the AVI to a MOV without losing quality, it's superb!

Jason - the S80 does 640x480 30 fps also - I'll most likely use this mode to shoot the video.

The Panasonic LX1 it doesn't seem to allow you to zoom during filming. A sample file can be found towards the bottom of this page:
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/pa...ew/index.shtml

I am looking at the Panasonic DMC-FZ30. It has OIS and is supposed to zoom in and out while recording (and a caution was mentioned to zoom slowly when I found a review at Steve's Digi-cam). Steve's list it as 1300+seconds with 2GB card.

Thanks Simon, the data rate, I didn't think about that!
I need some baseline reference, what's the data rate for regular DV and HDV?
And what about something like the Samsung SC-X210L?

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Camc...C_X210LXAA.asp

or what Carlos mentioned, the HD1?

Stephen,
the HD1 uses MP4 codec at different bitrates for different quality settings: 1280x720 30FPS 9Mb/sec, 1280x720 30FPS 6Mb/sec, 640x480 60FPS 6Mb/sec, 640x480 30FPS 3Mb/sec, and some others. The image sensor is a 5.1MP CCD, 1/2.5 inch size. You can take digital stills at 10MP (interpolated), 5MP, 2MP, 1.2 and 0.3MP. It has 10X optical zoom, 1 cm macro, image stabilizer and port for external microphone.
It has two bad points, quality drops in low light conditions, and a bug in the HD codec that makes diagonals dented in \ direction, but probably it would be solved with a firmware.

You can watch some video samples here: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=66914

The Sanyo Xacti C6 is a 6Mp digital still, 640x480 30FPS 3Mb/sec, 5x optical zoom, stabilizer, and no problems with low light or bugs. It´s much cheaper and small than the HD1. I think this is the best choice if you are not interested in HD video.

None of them has any time limitation for video shots, only the SD card size. In a 2Gb card you can store 29 minutes of HD video ( HD1 ) or 1 hour and 22 minutes in 640x480 mode, in best quality settings.
Bye!

The Canon PowerShot S80 will give you a 1024 x 768 video at 15fps.

BTW, 15fps tip. I have had lots of luck using Avid Liquid's Timewarp FX to change it to "progressive" with motion detection and keeping the video at the same rate. It smooths it out significantly. Your NLE may offer the same ability.

Stephen all I can say is, if you want to, wait.

I think there will be much better options coming with HD.

The Sanyo HD1 might be the best at the moment for resolution, but not so good otherwise. There is a 18Mb/s H264 Samsung scheduled in coming months, and others probably this year, but these are unlikely to have a big lens. There is a possibility of one of more big lens Digital Still cameras with HD video this year.

That is the picture as far as I can tell.

Re-edit:

I have just found this:

http://www.alt-vision.com/Foveon.htm

Notice it says new product coming.

The Samsung will be the model SC-HDX15 and seems to be a good choice, but will cost twice the price of the HD1.

Hi Wayne, do you mean a digital SLR with HD movie mode? Which manufacturer?


I had a look at the page http://www.alt-vision.com/foveon.htm
Is anyone using these sensors in a DIY HD project?

Hi Carlos, that Samsung is very expensive and small lens compared to your Sanyo unit.

Well, yes, possible, I'll let you fill the rest in yourself until announcements are made/information leaks. I have heard of nothing from the still camera manufacturers themselves.

This information has obviously been out there for a while. What's his name, Lorin, with the mamacow NAB info site, posted a link to information forecasting 720p movie mode for still, with an nominated year. I believe advance information on some projects might have been available at that time and this might be where that came from.

If you think presently announced cameras are suitable enough buy them, but if you think need better and can wait, then maybe that is best for you if you want.

I do not have information on end cameras or any release times. I hope something will turn up this year, maybe next year. From the information obtainable from google, you might be able to draw the same conclusion that HD for big lens cameras is coming soon.

I have used 5MP pics to make a "Ken Burns" WMV-HD slideshow in 720P that looked good on a 46" LCD on Media Center. And with a remote connection and a timer ($125 ish), it looks like time-lapse video is in easy grasp. Put in a 2GB or larger card, set for 5MP, and frame every 30 seconds. We just bought a Panasonic DMC-FZ30 from one of our sponsors (plug) and I think I may get a timer after I figure out which one is compatible. Not a DSLR, but one of the better advanced super-zooms and easy to use for all members of the family.

Looks like there is something new on various sites, just found this through google:
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:0...2&client=opera
http://www.vegatecgroup.com/9624_000...Design_Kit.pdf

Hello chaps,

Timely thread as I am investigating the super-slim point and shoots and would like one with decent movie mode as a secondary concern. I'm leaning towards the Nikon S6. Anyone have thoughts on the movie mode between that and the other skinny possibilities (Xlim, Optio, etc)

Using a high quality digital still movie camera to shoot digitak film
 

I own a Canon XT Rebel (350D). New firmware can be uploaded to the beast.
Lets go the software way, then. Why not OUR software ?

What about tapping the 8MP CMOS and outputs the raw continuous stream (no shutter, no compression) to the highspeed USB .0 port as a, say, 2MP or 4MP 24p/25p or any ###p picture stream which could be processed and possibly compressed at will on a PC....

This could apply to any other suitable digital SLR.

This could be our "Andromeda" project

Any suggestion ? links ?

New processor
 

Wayne
Texas instruments announced "DaVinci technology" last February -- a new processor for digital still camera OEMs which was quoted as being 3x the performance of present still camera processors (they quote 75 MP/second). It would support camera chips up to 16 megapixels in size, but of more interest to us is the ability to easily process 720p at 30 fps. This might be the processor we've been waiting for (I've read nothing about real world cameras yet though).

Main TI site:
www.ti.com

DaVinci specific site:
www.thedavincieffect.com

I agree with you mostly (USB is an beast, unless the hardware is setup right) the problem is finding somebody that wants to do it. If you google around, and ask at forums like dpreview and stevesdigicam) you will find people that have done firmware conversions. the only ones I currently can remember, is people that do webcam firmware for Astro photography, I posted a thread on it, masses of links. There was another one for those one use cameras, where people hacked the firmware, and one for Mamed, that used an on camera OS (think it might be related to the one eventually used the Ipod, but am uncertain on details) to put a games emulator on there. Happy goggling ;) Asking around the Linux normal/video/photography, open hardware and hacker communities is another avenue (unless you find detailed information on the camera internal components it can take a more effort to find it out).

The hardware, most cameras are not upto HD video. You need to determine the highest continuous, forever, shooting mode of the camera, get that resolution times by the frame per second possible, and divide the 720p frame resolution into that to see if you get at least 24fps. If you do, then there is a hope that you might be able to do it. Maybe there are cameras that can do it now days, because of the every increasing resolution of cameras. Next, you have to be able to bin (combine groups of pixels for lower resolution) and window (only red out a sub section of the entire sensor frame) the readout down to 720p (this is to make the maximum use of the limited off sensor data rate). There are possibly even $200 dollar cameras that could do this.

The problem, lots of technicals, and adjustments of the sensor hardware to produce the right levels and frames, and programming through puts to the USB2/USB2 DRIVE. The data path between the sensor and drive might have permanent obstacles.

Saving the bayer data might be best, if you save 8 bit 4:2:0 then extra calculation and 50% extra storage space, if you do 4:2:2 same again except 100% more storage space, and the USB2 interface might be struggling to get it out. 10 bits is 25% more. The USB data path might also be something like, 12Mb/s to 100Mb/s, instead of the full 480Mb/s. To get 4:4:4 colour from group of bayer pixels, or an x3, it is three times more, so you are most likely stuck with Bayer.

You see why it is worth getting somebody with a good hand at these things. Maybe ask the German guy that got into the Sony HC1 firmware, can't remember by look for a HC1 firmware thread.

Now realise, tat HD video Digital cameras could be coming this year, maybe before you can finish.

Now consider this, if you could get a 720p video capable stills camera to do RAW, or different frame rates. Well, we have one already anyway

Good find John, but also keep an eye on the www.ambarella.com chips. So, you are advocating that we should all go davinci coding?

Some cameras, with best video article:
 

A co-worker of mine did that. He ran Doom (the game) on his old Kodak still digital camera. Ok graphics on the LCD and menu buttons used for controller. I did a double take first time I saw it.

Stephan,

I'm curious about the programming system, where ever it allowed full access to sensor control (frame-rate, binning, windowing and exposure) and frame output. Could you ask your friend?

Canon S2 IS
 

Hi Stephen,

Just thought I would add some more about the Canon S2 IS. I have had this camera for almost a year now and am happy with its performance. 5MP stills are good and the video capability was surprisingly good. Under auto settings the camera tends to fish a bit with the focus if light levels are low or subject contrast is minimal.

There are two notable drawbacks to video from this still camera:

1. Max video setting of 640by480 at 30fps eats up the SD card like a snack! I get a little over 9 minutes of video on a 1GB card. So taking video of any kind of event that lasts 15 minutes to an hour or more and this video solution has serious drawbacks.

2. Native file AVI format for the video frequently runs into compatibility problems with video editing software. If any one can recommend a suitable software package (reasonable price) for editing these Canon AVI files I would appreciate hearing from you!

The best use of video from the Canon S2 IS is production of short clips for download to computer and playback from the computer.

So now I am looking at buying a video camera to be free of the hassles just mentioned. Relying on one piece of equipment just doesn't work for me!

Don

avi format problems
 

I completely forgot to mention this.... I have similar problems. Vegas cannot rread the video created by my Canon S1-is. For whatever reason, it doesnt like the resolution / bitrate / ???. So all I get is sound when I import a video and play it back in the trimmer. My room mate used Quicktime pro to export the files as .dv and that worked (on his mac) but when I did the same thing with quicktime pro on my win system the pixel aspect ratio was all screwy with no apparent reason (yes I checked all the settings, which sema to be in order). I may have to change the settings to the oposite of what they should be in order to fool quicktime into outputting the correct settings.

jason

Hi Wayne,

It's this emulation layer:
http://digita.mame.net

It'll only work on these cameras which runs Digita OS:
http://digita.mame.net/reviews.htm

There's developers info here:
http://digita.mame.net/develop.htm

Basically, it loads the emulation layer like any OS would load a program. That emulation layer has nothing to do with controlling normal camera functions. It's only for playing video game on the LCD screen. I suppose one could write a program to custom control a camera, but that would entail lots of reverse engineering unless somehow the hardware specs or software libraries were open source.

Vivitar 8300S
 

<< In addition to outstanding still images, the VIVICAM 8300s also has movie clip capability with sound. These may be recorded at 640 x 480 or 320 x 240 at 24 fps until the memory card is full. >>

New CMOS sensor from Micron, 10 images per second at 8-megapixel resolution or 30 frames per second at a resolution of 2-megapixels. And get this, for $200 to $300 level digital still cameras.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12851321

I meant the OS layer and development system under it, but you mean your friend ran the application rather than he was one of the developers?

The pages are out of date, I wonder if it is useful on new cameras? I can't get links to the OS manufacturer.

Good find, Stephen.