The Upside Down Thing

Dennis Wood · February 6th, 2006, 02:03 PM

The heavens have opened up, and now I see the light. It makes sense if you correlate a point on the LCD with a point on the CCD and follow them along.

I was clearly mistaken.....there is no magical flip function, just a guy(s) with a neuronal block. HA.

I stand entirely edubicated.

Wayne Kinney · February 6th, 2006, 02:13 PM

So there is no flip function on the cam?

Dennis Wood · February 6th, 2006, 03:58 PM

Nope, the only flip function is in the brain of the guy who called it a flip function...er, me. Rotating the cam upside down displays the image in the LCD as right side up...as it should. I just took David's suggestion of following the points correlated to CCD top and LCD top. It makes sense....but it's not intuitive.

The funny thing is, no one else except you guys picked up on that! Thanks for setting me (and soon a few more folks) straight....(shakes head, egg on face). Geez, I was even looking in schematics for mercury switches...ackk.

One thing though I can say for sure...you can't flip the GS400 LCD with a magnet. The switch that flips the LCD when you rotate it forward must be in the hinge itself...it doesn't show up on the factory service drawings for the LCD in the bezel, or the chassis.

Wayne Kinney · February 6th, 2006, 04:17 PM

Yeah, i think where people have gone wrong, is they imagine that when they rotate the camera upsidedown, the image rotates with it, but it does not.

The GS400 is a panny isnt it? My panny (nvds-30) is the same and does not work with the magnet trick either...

Forrest Schultz · February 6th, 2006, 06:23 PM

Wayne Kinney, you've got to be the most ignorant guy on here. do you even own a camcorder? maybe if you do, you should flip it upside down and watch it. these guys are telling you what happens with the camcorder, and your like, "no, thats not right". jeez bro, make and adapter, and buy a camera. figure it out for yourself.

Wayne Kinney · February 6th, 2006, 06:44 PM

Forrest,
Hehe, yes i own a camcorder, and as you see Dennis now agrees with David MD Smith's original statement, which is correct.

Flip your camocrder upside down, Forrest, and the image is still upright when you view it in this orientation (without adapter attached). Attach adapter, and the image appears upsidedown on the LCD from the operators view.

Give it a go Forrest, and you will see what we are talking about.

Forrest Schultz · February 6th, 2006, 06:53 PM

yes, i have given it a go, and im sorry, i only read the 1st page before i posted my comment, so i hadnt read the outcome. But i just wonder why everyone had to just talk about what is already known. theres no way around it, putting the apapter on makes everythng inverted. because our cameras were built without the ability to do another flip. or take away the standard flip that every ccd does. that would be cool. but would require hacking.

Dennis Wood · February 6th, 2006, 06:58 PM

Forrest, Wayne's the SG35 creator. I've eaten crow on this one...Dan and Wayne have it right. The easiest way to visualize this is to point your cam at a scene. Picture a point at the top of the CCD, and the top of the LCD and mentally lock them together. Now rotate the cam.....the two points are now visually at the bottom of the LCD frame. This is completely not intuitive....but it makes sense if you check out Dan's diagram, and visualize the points.

If this was a church, I'd be getting baptized about now :-) I'm now a believer. I'm also to blame for the thread misdirection :-(

Wayne Kinney · February 6th, 2006, 07:05 PM

Forrest,
hehe, all is cool. I think we all wanted this flip feature. If only there was a realtime flip feature 'in cam' that just flipped the image before dv compression, as to appear correct on the LCD and tape. But what average Joe wants that?

Agus Casse · February 6th, 2006, 07:05 PM

actually wayne is correct, you can notice the characters are upside down, but the image is correctly right, but recorded 180 degress upsidedown.

if you put the adaptor, you will record it ok, but still see it upside down.

the best solution is to buy a cheap $49 lcd and attach it to the camera, and put it upside down.

Leo Mandy · February 6th, 2006, 07:17 PM

Agus! My god, are you back?!?!?

Dennis Wood · February 6th, 2006, 09:27 PM

A celebrity in our midst...

Forrest Schultz · February 6th, 2006, 09:48 PM

Just buy one of those ps2 lcds or a magnavox like agus said. they are about 50 bucks, and you can rotate it how you please. plus they are larger than most camcorder lcds.

Matthew Nayman · February 6th, 2006, 10:16 PM

ps2 LCD? Anyone has a link?

Forrest Schultz · February 6th, 2006, 11:07 PM

Well, heres a real Ps2 lcd

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Sony-Playsta...QQcmdZViewItem

but im thinking more another style
this is the older ps1 and i like it better

http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-PS1-MONITER...QQcmdZViewItem

and if your'e creative like me, youll strip the cover off and take away the speakers. And put it in a more simpler box frame. either metal or plastic. and wa la!

February 6th, 2006, 02:13 PM	#17
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	So there is no flip function on the cam? __________________ Thanks, Wayne.

February 6th, 2006, 04:17 PM	#19
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Yeah, i think where people have gone wrong, is they imagine that when they rotate the camera upsidedown, the image rotates with it, but it does not. The GS400 is a panny isnt it? My panny (nvds-30) is the same and does not work with the magnet trick either... __________________ Thanks, Wayne.

February 6th, 2006, 06:44 PM	#21
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Forrest, Hehe, yes i own a camcorder, and as you see Dennis now agrees with David MD Smith's original statement, which is correct. Flip your camocrder upside down, Forrest, and the image is still upright when you view it in this orientation (without adapter attached). Attach adapter, and the image appears upsidedown on the LCD from the operators view. Give it a go Forrest, and you will see what we are talking about. __________________ Thanks, Wayne.

February 6th, 2006, 07:05 PM	#24
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Forrest, hehe, all is cool. I think we all wanted this flip feature. If only there was a realtime flip feature 'in cam' that just flipped the image before dv compression, as to appear correct on the LCD and tape. But what average Joe wants that? __________________ Thanks, Wayne.

February 6th, 2006, 07:05 PM	#25
Agus Casse Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Guatemala Posts: 322	actually wayne is correct, you can notice the characters are upside down, but the image is correctly right, but recorded 180 degress upsidedown. if you put the adaptor, you will record it ok, but still see it upside down. the best solution is to buy a cheap $49 lcd and attach it to the camera, and put it upside down. __________________ Agus35 - the ultimate tool for indie DV filmakers -

February 6th, 2006, 02:03 PM	#16
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	The heavens have opened up, and now I see the light. It makes sense if you correlate a point on the LCD with a point on the CCD and follow them along. I was clearly mistaken.....there is no magical flip function, just a guy(s) with a neuronal block. HA. I stand entirely edubicated.

February 6th, 2006, 03:58 PM	#18
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Nope, the only flip function is in the brain of the guy who called it a flip function...er, me. Rotating the cam upside down displays the image in the LCD as right side up...as it should. I just took David's suggestion of following the points correlated to CCD top and LCD top. It makes sense....but it's not intuitive. The funny thing is, no one else except you guys picked up on that! Thanks for setting me (and soon a few more folks) straight....(shakes head, egg on face). Geez, I was even looking in schematics for mercury switches...ackk. One thing though I can say for sure...you can't flip the GS400 LCD with a magnet. The switch that flips the LCD when you rotate it forward must be in the hinge itself...it doesn't show up on the factory service drawings for the LCD in the bezel, or the chassis.

February 6th, 2006, 06:23 PM	#20
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	Wayne Kinney, you've got to be the most ignorant guy on here. do you even own a camcorder? maybe if you do, you should flip it upside down and watch it. these guys are telling you what happens with the camcorder, and your like, "no, thats not right". jeez bro, make and adapter, and buy a camera. figure it out for yourself.

February 6th, 2006, 06:53 PM	#22
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	yes, i have given it a go, and im sorry, i only read the 1st page before i posted my comment, so i hadnt read the outcome. But i just wonder why everyone had to just talk about what is already known. theres no way around it, putting the apapter on makes everythng inverted. because our cameras were built without the ability to do another flip. or take away the standard flip that every ccd does. that would be cool. but would require hacking.

February 6th, 2006, 06:58 PM	#23
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Forrest, Wayne's the SG35 creator. I've eaten crow on this one...Dan and Wayne have it right. The easiest way to visualize this is to point your cam at a scene. Picture a point at the top of the CCD, and the top of the LCD and mentally lock them together. Now rotate the cam.....the two points are now visually at the bottom of the LCD frame. This is completely not intuitive....but it makes sense if you check out Dan's diagram, and visualize the points. If this was a church, I'd be getting baptized about now :-) I'm now a believer. I'm also to blame for the thread misdirection :-(

February 6th, 2006, 07:17 PM	#26
Leo Mandy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	Agus! My god, are you back?!?!?

February 6th, 2006, 09:27 PM	#27
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	A celebrity in our midst...

February 6th, 2006, 09:48 PM	#28
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	Just buy one of those ps2 lcds or a magnavox like agus said. they are about 50 bucks, and you can rotate it how you please. plus they are larger than most camcorder lcds.

February 6th, 2006, 10:16 PM	#29
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	ps2 LCD? Anyone has a link?

February 6th, 2006, 11:07 PM	#30
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	Well, heres a real Ps2 lcd http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Sony-Playsta...QQcmdZViewItem but im thinking more another style this is the older ps1 and i like it better http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-PS1-MONITER...QQcmdZViewItem and if your'e creative like me, youll strip the cover off and take away the speakers. And put it in a more simpler box frame. either metal or plastic. and wa la!