Thank you Jonathan,
Two Z1's side by side, one with MPIC, one without; lens changes vs. zoom-in, sharpness, light loss, etc(all issues beaten up here over the last six months). Other than first hand image, DVD footage and the device itself, nothing new. (size and weight was a shock) Only 17 people (short notice) showed up but for me was more than enough. It was refreshing and obliging to see excitement first hand. Provision must have had good FB to do ze change...We'll do it again. Stop on by for a "cup of coffee" (hehehe...)

Xl2
 

One reason to open a bottle of beer:
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/album22
Not exactly what I wanted or hoping for... but is out of the way (for a while)...

So Dan could you be so kind as to give us a price breakdown of your device.

MPIC alone
MPIC and follow Focus
MPIC and lenses etc.

i'm curious also, but please, be so kind and tell us the rental price also.

thanks,

filip

"Sunday morning having fun
with "MP" on XL1":
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/album26
(actually it is XL2 but it just didn't hold water that way.... hehehe)
hmmmmm:
"THIS FUN is for me AND YOU!
If you have an XL2!" ....
that's bettaaaaa now. All settled. Although not a fan of XL, the image is one of the best I have seen (with MPIC). I am not happy I do not have the time to "dig" into replacing the stock 20X lens, but .... I have too much on my plate for now and I am on a "diet" anyway... hehehe....
Greg,
the price for MPIC is US$ 8,000. It comes with a complementary MPFF (yeahh right! the mighty pico follow focus!) Please hold comments till you see what it does and how it does it, INCLUDED! I forgot to mention, MPIC is solar power recharged (as you shoot, or you plan the shots, outdoors). (it does not need more than one sunny hour per month to fully charge the batteries). In other words, some 10 years you should be worry free.... (one most annoying thing-having to charge/replace batteries-is out of the way) It still has the plug (just in case you are shooting in a "cave of wonders" for more than a month. As for lenses, I would rather let you find them/buy them and just do the service of cleaning, greasing and gearing for about 450 each (if gear is all you want without the mechanical overhaul, the price would be a lot less depending on the lens you have/buy)
I will have more news soon.

Damn. Too rich for my blood, but it looks awesome! I won't naysay and tell you I think its overpriced...I can see from your site that you put some serious blood sweat and tears into it.

Filip,
I was one step from flying to Lithuania/Finland (rental). Lucky you, their budget did not accommodate 5 weeks of MPIC and lenses and I am still here typing messages.
Rental overseas is not uncommon, but there is a lot of "insurance, shipping, and all that which adds up and actually it make more sense for one to buy it and rent it locally afterwards. Price for now is $450/day (all lenses included) and most likely the MPFF will not be a deal breaker, hehehe...

dan,
does your adapter rotate the image 180 degrees? or do you still have to flip it in post?

As is now, it does not. Flip is a post job. It used to do the flip... last summer, but is getting older (and..?wiser?)... hehehe...(;-)<

Hey Dan,

Between Beattie vs ground glass, did you notice a difference in the amount of vignetting, or to put it another way, a difference in how big the usable area was?

Bill,
ANY GG/diffusing material will vignette. ANY Fresnel focusing screen (if placed at the "right" distance to camcorder's lens combined with a "certain zoom-in") will NOT vignette, thus having a bigger usable frame size.
Subject to: 1)focal length of SLR lens, 2)max aperture of SLR lens, 3)distance to camcorder's lens and 4) the amount of "zoom-in" combined with MOD of camcorder's lens. A nightmare but:
Any camcorder WILL have a "sweet spot" where you can zoom-in AND focus on a Fresnel screen. That is why all contraptions having a GG (static or spinning) have to use an achromatic and zoom-in as much as possible to get away with vigneting. Vigneting IS THERE when shooting FILM!!! ALL THE TIME!!!!!! But FILM has 12 STOPS of latitude and it does not SHOW ALL THAT BAD. Now.... if you capture the same image with CCD/CMOS, the available range is 5?stops?
The effect is the subject of this morning's discussion.

The difference between the image on the FILM and on the GG is night and day, in terms of vigneting. And the difference is not the latitude, but the way the image is formed.
As far as I know, there's the usual vigneting that you get because of the lens - this will affect film and GG as well - and there's the extra vigneting you only get on the GG, that is generated by the GG itself and the way it works. Light that passes through the GG (coming from the lens) will be scattered in some proportion, but part of it will follow its straight path, thus, the light in the middle of the GG will go straight to the camcorder's lens, but the light on the outside will miss the camcorder's lens... So, on the midle of the image you have scattered light plus direct light, while on the margins you only get the scattered light.
If you have a very dense GG, more light will be scattered and less light will go straight (less vigneting). In turn, you'll loose some BIG steps there... If you have a thinner GG, as you approach clear glass, more light will get thru the GG (brighter image), but this also means that more light will follow its straight path - more vigneting. You can work this out using a condenser. (have you ever heard of a condenser used when working with film?!)

BTW: "condenser" means TWO plan-convex lens. (it is an system, not just ONE lens).


After I finish my morning coffee, I might change my mind to the above.... :)

You missed the word <<only>>>! now put it back where it belongs before I have my coffe and change my mind too (;-)< and...the rest is true.... however,.... what was a conderser again?....

"only" - I agree (this is half coffee later :) ).

And I don't know what a "conderser" is! :)
A condenser is a... "system" is not the word? My english is not that good... :(
I mean where you have two or more lens, not just one...
A plan-convex lens is.. just a plan-convex lens. And you can find it shaped on a fresnel, of course. But you need two of them before you can say you have a condenser. And this could actualy be an uncorrected condenser (not corrected for color and spherical aberrations). While a fresnel is good for focusing on a SLR (or large format photography) I don't know if it's enough for a mini35 addapter. I tried it. Granted, I didn't have a beatty or whatever $$. I mean GG.
"Any camcorder WILL have a "sweet spot" where you can zoom-in AND focus on a Fresnel screen"
But a two lens condenser can help here. You can move one of the plan-convex lens to "tune" the condenser. Don't ask me which one - I don't know. Try it! :)
The thing is, condenser have their focal length. That's where the eye should be. The "sweet spot". What should be in the focal point Dan? The CCD or the lens? Or what? I don't really understand.

Anyway, right or not, I've tried with one and then added the 2nd plan-convex. It is way better with 2 lens.

Hey all,

why not put that trial and error empirical approach behind you and use a tool for the job - Optical design software - everything you need to get that computer to optimise your design for perfect results.

After all you wouldnt edit your video with your eyes shut would you?

http://www.zemax.com/zemax/index.html

its expensive but there is time limited demo for free here

http://www.zemax.com/demo_z.html

you will learn a LOT about optics from this

EOT

Cosmin Rotaru<<<<<<A condenser is a... "system">>>>>>>>>>>
Noooooooo,..... that can't be..... another "system?".....
<<<<<I mean where you have two or more lens, not just one...>>>>>>>>>
Would they be looking like this?:
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/album28
<<<<But a two lens condenser can help here.>>>>>
Dam' bad condensers! Didn't want to help here!
<<<<What should be in the focal point Dan? The CCD or the lens? >>>>>
Which one was first? The chicken or the egg? White spot knows better...lol.
John, the program is sweet. Too bad they do not have lenses by brands (Canon 20X, or 16X, or Z1's zoom....) so you can test different combinations to a "given lens"....

Just Curious
 

Dan,
A quote from the first page of this thread...

[QUOTE
However, I can assure you that if anyone will be on the market with a lesser quality and a higher price than what
our world film community desrves, I will be there to make sure
ANYONE who can afford to buy an HD Sony (or whatever brand of prosummer HD) will access CONFORTABLY one of this adapters.
My aim is to open the "inner circle" to many.
QUOTE]

From what I've read, the device is $8,000, or $450/day to rent.
Is this correct? If so, do you consider your goal ("aim") met?

No, I did not meet my goal and I am not happy at all I still have to machine all parts. If it was done industrial, the price could go down to $2500 or even less (I guess) but as long as I make the parts measuring a hundred times (instead of CNC-ing them).... what can I do? I posted twice a request for anyone interested in production to contact me. I would rather share real revenue with someone, than keep all I can do by myself. I got carried away with other "toys" (of no lesser value), but still someone should organize the production (only not me). Too many temptations..... and I am weak and fall for anything that crosses my mind. I am neither “business oriented” nor money making inclined. I used to, but business is dirty. Imagine this:
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/album04/IMGA0879
selling for US $300. It has too many features to publish here and I would rather hold till I can look after manufacturing (hmmm... again...) A whole new concept. Is it patentable? You bet. More "toys"? You can bet on that too. The Oct "feature" I have in development will "require" nothing less than what I think I "need" for a good image. Wireless pan-tilt head on a motorized dolly (wireless controlled as well) anamorphic on MPIC and a lot more... Now... how can I organize production under these circumstances? MPIC is not "new" anymore, I made it and I am done with it. (I had a bit of "excitement" with the solar panels though) From now on, all that's left is production and that is not fun. That is work. I will make an effort though and thank you for the reminder! Honestly!

Hey! Speak for yourself! Production engineering methodology is fun for some of us! :)

I bet it is Bill and I am lucky not to know. I could get carried away just as well...

Quote
"I will make an effort though and thank you for the reminder! Honestly!"

Dan,
Thanks for the reply. Your device is very well designed and built. I certainly understand the challanges of scaling-up to production quantities.

I have added a new album (under brightness comparison)
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/album31?page=1
while I am having parts manufactured to lower the price. A few versions of the same movement might be available. I know the most sensitive issue here is PRICE (son of a..b-udget) but good news are on the way.

Further testing:
http://dandiaconu.com/gallery/album32

That is indeed good news!

So Whats up ? Hmm... manufacturing cheaper parts, thats good. Also solar power sounds great... Do not be quiet and tell us news !

Didn't want to start a new thread for this, so here goes:

Anyone know how to put a small hole in a piece of glass without breaking it?
I got a piece of 3.5" circular glass from a $1 picture frame and I want to try making a glass version of the spinning CD adapter.
The hole should be no bigger than the shaft of a CD motor.

I don't have any precision equipment here. (No diamond drill bits, etc...) I do have a template printed from Photoshop that I will lay the glass over to find out the exact center point. I understand this is a slow process, but I am willing to do it. I want to do this before I grind it because I'd hate to break it after spending all that time on it.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

[QUOTE=Frank Ladner]Anyone know how to put a small hole in a piece of glass without breaking it?QUOTE]
I already did this couple of months before. And I have four glasses with hole to attach on harddrive motor (silmilar to CD holder). I can send it, but its 800 grit. Maybe its to much for you. Im from Europe, so if someone wants, I can send it.

Dan: hey Dan... ignoring me ?

Daves: Are you talking about sending a pre-made ground glass? I appreciate the offer, if so. I'm actually going to grind with a larger grit in an effort to get a more even image w/ no hotspot. Since it will be spinning, the grain won't be a problem.

Can you tell me a little more about how you did it? Thanks, Daves!

I did not. I order it to be done for me. They made me 4 pieces, but I do not use them anymore. Since its useless for me, I can send it to you. But I do no know if its enough big for you. I think it have 8cm in diameter, 2cm center hole. Or so. Thickness is 2 or 3mm. Its ready to use, you do not need anything to do with, until you do not want to make grain finer. Now its sanded by 800.

Hrm..... 8 cm is about 3.15 inches. The one I have now is 3 & 1/2 inches, and that's cutting it close...so I think the 3.15 would be too small to work with the motor and condensors I have. I'd hate for you to go through the trouble and it be too small. I appreciate the offer to send it!

I was thinking about it and maybe I won't have to drill. I could possibly mount something to the glass surface to attach to the shaft. I started thinking of using something flexible so that when the glass spins, it would automatically spin straight (with no z - motion). However, I wonder how well this would work when the camera moves quickly.

So... Dan, whats up... Tell us !

Hey guys!

For those of you looking for an adapter housing, here's one possible solution:

I got my hands on an old hard drive and removed the internal mechanisms (read/write arm, magnets, platters, etc...) until all that remained was the aluminum box with the metal cover.

At the moment, I'm working on a 3.5 inch spinning glass CD and this fits perfectly into the housing...even giving a little room for wobble (because a glass CD spinning quickly and hitting the inside of the housing just might break :-) )

All I have to do is put the holes through both sides.

These drive housings are durable and not all that heavy once the inner workings are removed. I think it's a good solution for an adapter housing.

Once I get the thing finished (including holes, wiring, lens mount, etc...) I'll try and post some pictures.

I took a couple of pictures of the drive housing as-is. They are located here:

http://70.147.193.182/mwtest/

(The images are named harddrive_for_housing_[ 01 & 02 ].jpg )

I like the idea with the harddrive. It sounds way better than using plastic. Keep us on the up and up!

A hard drive spins WAY faster than a CD player. CD players spin at around 500-750 rpm depending on whether the read head is closer to the center or to the outside. Hard drives of course spin 5400 or 7200 rpm.

That means the speed at the outer edge of a 5.25" circular piece of plastic (blank CD, ground glass, etc), with a CD motor is about 8 to 11 miles per hour (circumference times rotations per minute = distance travelled). With a 5400 rpm drive, it jumps to around 84 mph! That is a HUGE increase, especially in terms of dynamic imbalance as well as simple stability. With a 10x speed increase, centrifugal force is increased 100x. That means any instability, even if it is "invisible" at CD motor rpms, will be really apparent at hard drive rpm's.

I would not want to be at a tangent to a piece of plastic or glass spinning that fast. I guess if you have it inside a metal housing it would be one thing but even so, I wouldn't want shards bouncing into my camcorder or my 35mm lens.

Just my two cents' worth, from a guy who has been around a fabrication shop and machine shop environment for years. Wouldn't want to see anybody's soft parts, or lenses, get hurt.

Hey Bill!

Thank you for the input - and I agree with what you say. However, I won't be using the motor from the hard drive - just the case/housing. I'm still using a regular motor from a portable CD player. I'll rig this with a variable resistor (potentiometer) to adjust speed. (ie. to be able to increase speed in lower light to reduce grain)

Just in case you may have missed the post about Universal Focus Gear for SLR lenses, I do offer them from my site (under construction)

The MPIC will be available before the end of the year offering a few options in terms of different quality parts (filters, screens, motors and adjustable amplitude of motion). You could buy the entry level and upgrade later to higher quality parts. I am still working on pricing it, but I want to make it as affordable as possible. I will list it on the same page:
http://dandiaconu.com/available_products.htm
as soon as I have prices for all parts so you can order it. Thank you all for your sustained interest in this project.

I am taking orders now for MPIC and a few other items.

I couldn't find it on your available products page.

You're right. Sorry.....
Very long hous.... looks like it was not uploaded. I'll do it by this evening. Thank you.

How much?
 

How much are you planning to charge for them after the promotional period?

It looks amazing, especially in terms of size and efficiency, but I would want to see independent tests and reviews before putting down that kind of cash.