4:4:4 10bit single CMOS HD project

[Jason Rodriguez]

I will be Mountain Biking in the North Carolina Mountains, maybe even get some white water rafting in ;)

I'm jealous :-P

[Rob Scott]

Does anyone know where to get an adapter to let me use a Canon EF-mount (EOS) lens on my C-mount camera? I can find tons of other adapters, but I haven't run across one of these yet.

[Jason Rodriguez]

Not sure if this will work Rob, but at B&H photo you can get a c-mount to t-mount adapter, and then a t-mount adapter for EOS lenses. So again, theoretically that should work, although I'm not sure if it will screw-up the back-focus because of so many adapters.

[Jason Keenan]

What's the difference between the 3300 and the 3170 Silicon Imaging Cameras?

Is it price?

Is there a reason why the SI-3170-U is not appropriate for this sort of application. It would seem to be ideal. What is the price of that unit??

Also, for Ben, do you have a raw bayer grab from the Sumix camera available?

Raavin

[Rob Lohman]

Jason: please check the silicon imaging site yourself to see the
difference between the camera's. Steve has enough work to
keep up with all of this as it is, and it's easy to look up the specs
yourself. Thank you.

Having said that check out his post on the 3170:

I wouldn't suggest it for studio work with the Altasens coming out

[Jason Keenan]

Jason: please check the silicon imaging site yourself to see the
difference between the camera's. Steve has enough work to
keep up with all of this as it is, and it's easy to look up the specs
yourself. Thank you.

Yes, I probably should have been a bit more clear. I suppose what I meant was, are there hidden negatives, not described in the specs, which make the 3170's negatives greater than the 3300. From reading the specs I just couldn't understand why it wasn't the most obvious choice for this kind of work.

All I could think of was price. Also there seemed to be a bit more flexibility as the 3170 comes in USB2 and Camera Link versions where the 3300 doesn't (as far as I can tell from the site).

I will try to be a bit more clear. I'm not lazy at doing research it's just that not all the information is there (plus I'm new to the deep technical aspects so it's hard to translate some of the specs to actual use ie rolling vs global shutters etc.).

I was looking more for an opinion really. Something that can't normally be reflected in specs alone. Oh and of course the price.

Cheers anyway,

Raavin ;)

[Jason Rodriguez]

There's more than price.

The 3170 is a couple years old, and has a lot of thermal and fixed pattern noise. To try and suppress that you're going to waste a lot of those 12-bits in an attempt to maximize the signal-to-noise ratio and reduce noise. The new 3300 will get you only 10-bits, but those are going to be much cleaner 10-bits that you can actually utilize.

[Wayne Morellini]

I'm impressed the thread hasn't grown that much this time, with the new camera floating around and all ;).

Wayne,

I think there's something you're overlooking in this whole situation when you're thinking of pitching this idea to a big company.

Money spent on marketing

Jason, you are missing the point we are discussing, which is good press coverage for helping us a little (unless we go back to talking about product support in Apple products). Super Bowl, local baseball, charities etc etc etc. Sometimes they get zilch out of it, some giving to charities even done in secret (called good will), and charities and trust funds for arts, science etc, give for community/sectors benefit. So the principle is out there, and businesses (especially those plush with money) do get involved. But, what I am talking about is much more practically beneficial to business. They would spend very little helping us and in return the press releases and official websites, say they are the sponsors making it happen, which is a big return for their reputation. Big companies have the resources to get on the news wires and get good news coverage, and a news release is as good as an advertisement of the same size (that is marketing themselves). Forget marketing, forget setting up production lines, we are using unique software to use already existing products together for a new purpose. This would benefit SI and all companies (Irony, SBS was just advertising that their coverage of the Olympic Games was brought to me by Microsoft (they even paid for that one ;). We are not just doing this for the benefit of our own personal cameras but it has a greater more symbolic significance that is a benefit to the video/indie community.

With big company $$$'s comes big company bureaucracy, big company ideas, much of them the antithesis of what we're trying to do here.

Why do you think Linux is doing so well as an underground movement, finally catching the attention of the big boys (IBM)? This stuff that we're doing is grassroots stuff, not big company consumerism.

Please, have a think of how much money big business pumps into Linux (not to mention how much the distributors of Linux versions pump efforts to standardise it, that come from the profit from those non free distro's). The underground works on lots of small bit's (some of them funded under the same model I am proposing), but over all the complexity is great, and in need of authorities, or businesses, to jell it all together. I have said this for years, and it is increasingly dawning on more and more people now. I design my own OS, and I know that a horse designed by a committee is a camel, not a thoroughbred, some big companies know this, and that is why they are trying to genetically engineer the camel into a horse (or OX ;). I know that it is a very tall order. But a committee is not even a committee without structure, and any complex endeavour needs leadership (at least we have the Linux founder). But for us, we have a simple/straight forward package that can be broken up into simple sections that can be done by one, or a few people each working on a subsection. We would ask for help to finance the effort (very cheap, I doubt Rob wants 100K a year programmers wages to do it) maybe some simple driver or codec support in their products. Past this, I am not saying publicly. Sure they could offer to program it for us, but even then it would have to be open source and in line with our mission. I'm sure it's been done before, in Linux, and we don't have to bend to big company corruptions.

I am all for radical new ways to do things better, like having the whole Linux community working out each bit to one coherent and comprehensive model and working towards making it the best in the world. But human nature is that there are so many stubbornness, ignorance, lack of understanding, for sight and intelligence, politics, and competing interests (which even effect highly structured big businesses in top standards organisations (name deleted for legal reasons)) that this is near impossible in Linux (but now I think of it, it should be possible to make a program to organise things and gets past that). One leader starts with one person (Rob in the case of capture), and as I assume he is skilled, he should get much better results than ten unskilled people arguing. If you could see my OS design, and understand the paradigm shifts in it, Linux would look laughable. Actually this paragraph is a little off topic, I think I'll delete it latter.

[Wayne Morellini]

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Scott : Does anyone know where to get an adapter to let me use a Canon EF-mount (EOS) lens on my C-mount camera? I can find tons of other adapters, but I haven't run across one of these yet. -->>>

Rob, this was posted earlier (that guy had a few interesting, well thought out things, in his post):

http://www.birger.com/html/ef232_home.htm

It also allows you to controll all the electronic lense funtions from your computer.

Actually I just had a skim (I have been so busy it has been sitting my browser for ages):

Interfacing to Your Camera

We offer a mechanical adapter to mount the EF232 directly to any standard C-Mount camera.. Mechanical adapters for other camera mounts can be provided as required. The EF232 adapter has a back focal length of 1.1". We can accomodate cameras with back focal lengths much greater than this, such as those employing thermoelectric coolers and/or shutters. Please contact us to discuss your specific needs.

But look at the price, yikes, are they for real. When you look at this, it should be able to be done with a few pic's, and actuators, for a tenth the price. I wonder who their target market was for a price like that?

Just looked around their site, interesting stuff, some camera electronics boards, FPGA based boards, and 68Billion colour Led display.

[Wayne Morellini]

Toms hardware has just posted a new article on a 400GB, five platter, command qued harddrive.

http://www.tomshardware.com/storage/20040820/index.html

I've skimmed it, and they left out a bench mark, but still a curiosity.

http://www.seagate.com/content/docs/...x_sata_ncq.pdf

Command line queing is a spec of SATA II, only this drive and a SG Barracuda 7200.7 have it (and only a few Intel chipsets support it).

It follows our discussion of setting up the read/write commands for optimal performance, to make sure the head doesn't have to wait for the desired sector to spin around again. Something that could even hinder a 720p bayer save. I'm not sure it would be better than writing the software to organise itself anway, but it is another consideration for the high end.

I must confess ingorance of how Manufacturers set up their multiple platters, wether all the heads opperate at the same time, or not, independently or in parralell. If they operate all at once independently, that would be interesting, as you could theorectically dedicate platters to capture, and one to the OS and program. Or if in parralell then all the slower inner sectors could be given to the OS etc, and old footage could be migrated there during pause, while new footage uses the faster outer sectors during shooting

Thanks

Wayne.

[Matthew Miller]

Wayne,
The heads inside of a hard drive are all connected to the same arm which is moved by a voice coil type mechanism.
A five platter hard drive would have ten heads... so you would need ten individual mechanisms for movement.
I don't know if you've seen the inside of a hard drive, but I doubt you could squeeze that many components into todays current hard drive casings.
Not that it couldn't be done... but we'll probably all be using solid state hard drives long before they would try something like that.

[Obin Olson]

Back!

the trip was great!

Jason just for you I will post a pic or 2 of the riding around Brevard NC ;) ;)

i am waiting to hear from my programmer on the progress of CineLink while I was gone..I hope it was good! will keep everyone posted!

[Wayne Morellini]

<<<-- Originally posted by Matthew Miller : Wayne,
The heads inside of a hard drive are all connected to the same arm which is moved by a voice coil type mechanism.
A five platter hard drive would have ten heads... so you would need ten individual mechanisms for movement.
I don't know if you've seen the inside of a hard drive, but I doubt you could squeeze that many components into todays current hard drive casings.
Not that it couldn't be done... but we'll probably all be using solid state hard drives long before they would try something like that. -->>>

Thanks for the info Matthew. I imagine somebody might have done it on a high end model, but that is all I wanted to know.

[Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn]

But Wayne, seeing your really advanced skills and capabilities, why don't you just post some good designs and make are work easier.
I mean not your proffessional stuff, just a simple prototype.
You could help a lot making a compression routine, for example.
Thank you.

[Wayne Morellini]

I was wondering where you got to Jaun. Put it this way, Ben and whoever else=Bayer, Rob-capture, me used to BE = cases but a couple other people want to do it now. I have suggested doing a few credible things in times past, but no interest, so no go, you can guess, you reap what you sow. As far as my research it has been much, and has ended a while ago, so be content. As far as non-professional stuff, it is all professional stuff thats the problem. I get a bone and I don't let go till I got the best possible solution (though I admit, compression using 3D shape analysis is beyond me (maybe if I use Voxels)). It's called getting it and sticking it to the rest of the world. Finance is the avenue, so I got to pull a simple one to make the money for it, and I have just bought a stack of books to get back into games programming, and maybe generate some gravy. So I advise leaving me alone for now, I got a lot to do, and only am half way through the 35mm adaptor threads. Thats why I am into just answering questions at the moment.

I actually was discussing enclosures with somebody, but that person disappeared, and before I go to somebody else I would prefer to see what they are doing. Takes time, which I don't have so latter this year.