Well well I crawl out from under a rock just in time to get blinded by the sun:

"We have made significant progress with Altasense camera. It will have powerful FPGA with power PC processor inside. It will also have 32 Mega bytes of image buffer memory. The interface will be Giga-Ethernet. We are aiming for 60 fps with loss-less compression. The good news is that components cost will be low. We hope to provide low introductory price, even lower than what we thought earlier. The negative news is that March is the new date for release."

but that's OK after 1 week of having UPS "delay" my package it's finally in the hands of ouraprogrammer for final work..we will be using the 3300rgb camera for now and upgrade to the ALtasense VERY soon..I wish I had more "info" but all is quiet before the storm right?

keep up the merry mood.

Steve..EPix 64bit word?

Dear Obin

sonds amazing the Alta news really !!!

Dear Wayne: In a three CCD cam you have a R, G, B ccd stupid but, take it this way Pana is shifting green horizontal and vertical
Canon only horizontal, Canon CCD's are smaller Canon want's to boost resolution. Why only pana does it, nobody knows, rumors telling me Pana wanted to do other things maybe. Shifting all three sounds crazy but why not - crazy does not mean can't be done.

Look at this: http://www.natemc.com/tech001b.php
so we kan convert the 1.8" Toshiba dis to a 0,1,5 or 10 arry

and to all sorry but to have a huge LCD screen as Drake does it beside the cam I'm not callin a viewfinder

Ronald
I've been some day's of to
NORWAY SAILING, NO EMAIL
BUT LOT OF FUN

I will have a 8inch touch screen with playback and live preview..later on I will ad a viewfinder if I can ever find a good microdisplay that works from a VGA input

Hm
which resolution can you have with the 8 inch touch screen ?

1.8 inch harddisk
 

a raid with the Toshiba, converted to Sata look there please
http://www.xpcgear.com/hrr1820a.html

can do the bandwith for the altasens, guess thats the way Kinetta will have his 10 disk's. To do all this with FGPA would be a nightmare.

found once a small portable fuelcell doing 320 W, looking for a small mobo with PCIx to have the mobo with the disks in something shaped like a 35mm film magazine could be

anyway the cam has not to have the look as a Video cam if it looks like a russion 16mm or 35mm a prototype is quite easy to build and


going wild, crazy

all you know, but it's only 5 pm here. no red wine only tea and cake, but crazy Bolex had a rotating prism 20/80 % that was the best and Arri did the same to have a viewfinder.

To have a mechanical shutter is not bad with cmos, we get rid of all rolling shutter problems, Vance did it on the Vance cam, it's on his page.

we would have a 90-10 prism and something as a night vision device, to get reely cheep, that would be a B%W viewfinder exact as the lens . We only need a small screen to have some cam parameters and it would be done. a decent high res electronic viewfinder is not a cheapo a prism doing 90/10 can be done , it's not an all digital approch but why should it be ? Id should be a HD indie cam, and I'm used to an Arri like viewfinder all life, thousend's too - to change that will not be wise and B&W would be okay sometimes even much better

As a TFT or LCD like Drake is not camera man like sorry.

<<<-- Originally posted by Ronald Biese : Dear Obin

sonds amazing the Alta news really !!!

Dear Wayne

Shifting all three sounds crazy but why not - crazy does not mean can't be done.
-->>>

Ronald, I wish more people thought like you, then they would explore all credible avenues rather than being desmissive.

Have a look at the technical thread, I have started a new thread, about the uncompressed output of the Sony HDV, and the rerogramming JVC HD1/10 and PD10 to 24fps, Hi-res output discussions:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=36574

Originally posted by Ronald Biese :
> found once a small portable fuelcell doing 320 W

How much?

> looking for a small mobo with PCIx

There are many links to them in the threads.

> to have the mobo with the disks in something shaped like a
> 35mm film magazine could be

Yes, nice styling, my thought, I was almost going to suggest it for the drake system, with a magazine like magazine, and styling/control like film flash film camera, very comfortable.

I think the possiblity we have here is to break away from the old ways and do it better, no guessing/estimating what the film see's, through the veiwfinder, here we can process the film and see it instantly ;) we almost instantly know if there is a porblem with the sensor/image etc. Makes it much easier for low end/new indie person.

Wayne.

just a little X-mas fun..no I did not shoot it ;)

http://www.wimp.com/pleasure/

Performance of the Dothan CPU looks good..Looks like we can display color 1080p 24fps and record it to disk..Over the next few days I will be getting updates from my programmer as he is working on the hardware we will be using in the camera...I will keep everyone posted as the news comes in..if I get a chance I will post more clips as we go along...

Was that preview and recording with or without an external AGP card (I remember you saying that you needed AGP to make things work right)?

Also what board are you currently using?

Jason;


we are not using the AGP and things are working fine..still looks like we will NOT get 1080P 24fps 10bit from this system because the pci 32bit buss is not fast enough..I am hoping and waiting for Epix to release the 64bit card..it's now months overdue so I hope anyday we will see one..untill then we are going to keep working on the small details with our software...arggg!! I can't stand it! EPIX WAKE UP!

So you're just using the embedded 855GME graphics without an extra AGP card, and that's displaying everything just fine (all 24fps and no dropped frames?)

Jason: yes so far so good with the 855gme chipset Jason I will tell you you can't capture 1080p 24fps on a standard pci board..bandwidth issues of the pci buss..I will have a 64bit pci card soon for captures and this should clear all the issues..

Everyone :

As it stands we have no support for editing in 10bit .
How would everyone feel about treating the RAW files like film and going through a DI process like film with color grading taking place in a DI file maybe jpg2000 10bit 1080P and then after the color and gamma work is done dumping down to 1080P 8bit and doing the edits on that..at this point right now we have few options to edit in 10bit. This way we can keep the super quality and dynamic rane of 10bit for the color work and edit in any app with the 8bit video files with or without compression..Vegas will do it Premiere will do it anything that supports the codec of your choice ... does this sound like an ok starting workflow?

I know this is not the best solution but it would work I think and it's easer then working with film IMHO and MUCH cheaper!!

A buddy of mine is buying a Panasonic VariCam Lens Deck ...$105,000...if only I could talk him into 1/2 or even 1/4 that cash for this project!!!!!

Obin, what you're talking about isn't such a bad thing. It's the pathway that multi-million dollar Hollywood features are done in.

Trying to have all your HD footage online while you do what is basically an offline edit seems a bit rediculous to me, and that's me talking as a film-editor (which I do). I never, ever keep my original files online, not unless it's DV or something super-compressed like that. And even then, for instance, I'm working on a documentary between other projects that has 45 hours of source material. There is NO WAY I'm going to work with 45 hours of HD material online. Not right now at least. And this doc was shot on DV. I'm doing the edit in a 20:1 Photo-JPEG compression codec, and I'm getting all 45 hours in 50GB! So I have the whole doc on a little hard-drive. It's very nice, and very convenient, and when I need a higher-quality version, I simply re-digitize the source tapes.

Having to do that with your camera footage only makes sense. It's absolutely stupid for you to waste your time color-correcting footage when you're shooting at a 10:1 or greater shooting ratio. Just stupid. You can do it if you want, but you're totally wasting your time. There's a reason that the film industry does things the way they do it. It's cause it works. So basically all you should be doing is editing with a gamma corrected/color balanced "daily" or "one-light" of your footage (which can be very compressed), and then go back and online with the 10-bit files and a very nice color-correction.

Now I don't mean to denegrate anybody on this list, but sometimes I get the feeling that nobody around here has edited a full feature-length movie or worked as an assistant on one. If you had you wouldn't be talking about this panecea of having HD10-bit color-corrected finalized pieces to work with, and you wouldn't be complaining so much about the offline/online process. Again, not to down anybody, but go out and edit a 1 1/2 hour feature, and then throw away 95% of the footage, and see if you'll like taking up gobs of HD space, taking up hours of color-correction, etc. for footage you will NEVER USE.

There's a reason the film industry uses the offline/online process and why software packages like AVID, FCP (a little bit), Discreet, etc. are so popular, and Vegas, Premiere Pro, etc. aren't at this point in time. These software packages are rock-solid at offline/online, and this is the process that has proved to be the most time-efficient and least-costly while maximizing the ability to let your creativity flow.

You don't need an editing package that can handle 10-bit footage. What you do need is an editing package that can export your edit successfully and accurately to another package that has the ability to handle your 10-bit files and online in that package. And you need software that is very adept at media management (this is a biggie).

Anyways, that's just my .02 cents.

well, I feel the same as you Jason.
I've been working on almost 10 feature length films up to now as an on stage technician (and actor sometimes :) ).
I've done edition, I've been on shooting location as Video Engineer, I've used DaVinci's, Spirits and Ursa Diamonds, I've done color grading, I have experience with Cameras from A-minima up to Arri 535 and 435 ( I have a Mitchell camera myself).I have more than 5 years experience on Video to 35mm transfers, I've done sound capture, correction and edition, I have restored some old footage (digitally), I have developed a film scanner and a film recorder.
So I guess sometimes we (everybody on this forum) aren't talking the same language... :(
But this is the way life is so don't need to worry....

Well, Merry Christmas guys.

Was trying to post this last night, but the thread was playing up. For the day after Christmass:

Was just reading for the last couple of days, but I have to say I agree with you Jason.

What about this:

Producing compressedf/lower resolution quick and nasty version for editing. Used day by day to draft edit, to check, cull and condense to footage needed, and produce a draft edit info file. Eventually this is used to do master versions. We then take the master edit info file and run it like a batch process through X program on the actual Raw footage to auto produce a edited condensed Raw Master version for colour correction etc.

Or should it be simpler?

Thank you Jason..I am glad to hear what you said.What if you could have SheerVIdeoo 10bit online files at a rate of maybe 20-30MB/sec for 24fps 1080p 10bit?

what if I could dump from RAW to codec like that? or maybe the thing to do is dump to Sheervideo 10bit at FULL RESOLUTION AND at the same time dump to sheervideo HEAVY compression and a frame size of 720x480 for the "offline"..Jason do you think if I had an automatic gamma set at the dump from raw to offline it would be good enough for the edit?

<<<-- Originally posted by Jason Rodriguez :
You don't need an editing package that can handle 10-bit footage. What you do need is an editing package that can export your edit successfully and accurately to another package that has the ability to handle your 10-bit files and online in that package. And you need software that is very adept at media management (this is a biggie).
-->>>

Some of the discussion comes from different potential uses. For example, I'm interested in uncompressed 10 bit HD acquisition for keying and compositing work, where most shots will need quite a bit of tweaking. Most compositing and color correcting will be handled in a specialty compositor, but it's nice to do final color correcting in an editor as one can easily apply a change to dozens of clips at once instead of firing up Shake and modifying scripts.

Getting rid of a EDL export/batch redigitize step, and being able to directly export from a desktop NLE to H.264 or WM9 is very convenient for many of us interested in HD authoring. I understand the offline/online workflow, but not everyone has access to a Nitris.

Avid's desktop HD solution is supposed to ship tomorrow, which should be useful. http://www.avid.com/products/xpressprohd/ If the DNxHD codecs work as advertised, they will provide 6:1 compressed 10 bit HD editing & compositing without artifacting. We'll know soon.

Eliot

Definitely . . . :-) You may want to add a default white-balance too, like either one for 3200K and one for 5600K (sunlight and tungsten). But that's really all you need for offline dailies.

Eliot, I do agree with you on the online files for compositing, but again the problem is that most "editing" packages, even FCP, don't support greater than 8-bit in RGB space, whereas compositing packages can go up to 32-bit floating-point in that all-important RGB colorspace. FCP will go up to 32-bit per channel in YUV, but we're not really dealing with YUV codecs unless you're playing around with SheerVideo like Obin.

Every other package without some plug-in codec modifier is just 8-bit internal rendering for both YUV and RGB, and it's not going to be enough to play around with RAW files to their fullest potential.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jason Rodriguez :
Eliot, I do agree with you on the online files for compositing, but again the problem is that most "editing" packages, even FCP, don't support greater than 8-bit in RGB space, whereas compositing packages can go up to 32-bit floating-point in that all-important RGB colorspace. FCP will go up to 32-bit per channel in YUV, but we're not really dealing with YUV codecs unless you're playing around with SheerVideo like Obin.

Every other package without some plug-in codec modifier is just 8-bit internal rendering for both YUV and RGB, and it's not going to be enough to play around with RAW files to their fullest potential. -->>>

The abovementioned Avid Express HD seems to be doing internal calculations at 10 bit precision, at least according to the online specs. I'll reserve final judgement for the shipping product, but that should be sufficient for final color tweaks and most finishing tasks. The heavy lifting should be done in a compositing package anyway.

The other problem with offline work and VFX shots is that many problems (matte chatter and bad edges, small tracking slips, etc.) don't show up until you are looking at the thing in high resolution on a reasonably large screen, at which point they become painfully obvious. I'm trying to figure out a workflow that enables me to identify potential bugs as soon as possible, as frantically re-rendering a bunch of multilayer composites at the last minute is not my idea of fun.

One way or another, we'll get to find out all the answers as the cameras and software become available. I think there is sort of a 'bandwidth pain threshold', for me anyway. If I need a RAID to edit final quality HD, a proxy looks tempting. If, however, I can edit a compressed-but-final-quality HD stream, that fits within the bandwidth of a single drive, I'll do it :)

Eliot

thanks guys for the thoughts..I will have a FCP box in a day or 2 and I sure as SH*t will have SheerVideo on that box ASAP and see how things work in the SHEER 10bit YUV codec under FCP I will report back then..in the meantime I am awaiting the 64bit capture card for our camera

Dear Obin and all
Have a happy new year
2005
there is anywhere at tkodak, I do mean the page
a page that tells you exat all, all film formats.
I do remember it was on a page scanning film.

Hi-Res Conforms in After Effects

Hey guys, you might want to check out this tutorial from Automatic duck using FCP and AE (and you should be able to do this with premiere or AVID)

http://www.automaticduck.com/product...esConformInAE/

high def
 

that looks like great news.

would love to see a premiere pro 1.5 tutorial

FCP box is in but at the moment I have to edit some scenes from a feature film on it...when the rush is done with that I will do some tests..sorry for the wait I am as anxious as any of you guys to try FCP with SheerVideo ;)

It,s hard for me to change platforms when pc,s are becoming so cheap

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...6494&CatId=120


I built a g5 with the same specs ,and It was double the price.
I just can't afford to go the mac route.


*our static adapter is almost perfected and is priced right for the starving artist. with a street price of less than $150
and free 24 hour support on this board.

Good news Richard. Can you provide some detailed info on this adapter?

static adapter
 

I have sent chris a picture of the completed thorlabs adapter, and I will provide a link when he gets It. I hope obin trys this on his camera ,with cris rubin,s workflow to remove the grain from the groundglass . he thinks it will work even better with a uncompressed image, the parts list is less than $150.
the parts are thorlabs tube and opto sigma glass.
and c-mout to your choice of 35mm lens.

I really don't think this is off topic ,if this works we will be
adding to obin,s camera a$35,000 attachment for less thah $150

still waiting for the 64bit capture card from Epix..they are telling me before the end of Jan. I will see a card in my mailbox....can't wait! that card will allow our whole system to shoot 10bit 1080P video @ 24fps

So how goes the static adapter development? I've been looking at one posted at http://www.enormousapparatus.com, but I can't get any responses from the filmmaker about his gear.

Fox

How is the motherboard and processing situation going.

I have to replace my motherboard, and I might as well think about replacing it with something that can be used for the camera, maybe even those sub $500 laptops.

So what is the latest on mainboard, drives, gigabit ethernet, processing power for 720p 1080p?

We are now moving the image preview/display off the CPU and into the GPU of our motherboard...this will allow much more CPU time for other things like Histogram etc in realtime..not to mention the use of a lower-cost slower CPU if we want..this work is being done as I speak and we are still awaiting the 64bit card for capture of the native raw 10bit 1080p footage..any day now...64bit ...arrgg I hate waiting !!


I am also looking at Dan's GG as an adaptor to be built into the camera as one whole system...all you do is choose your 35mm lens you want on the front..not sure yet if Dan's adaptor is going to work but I may have one here for testing soon


I am now thinking that I may just downsize the 1080P image after capture to 720p because workflow with 720 would be much easer then 1080p..thoughts anyone?

Might be worthwhile but then you won't be working with the raw files much for editing I would hope. You would definitely need to do an online-offline edit.

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : I am now thinking that I may just downsize the 1080P image after capture to 720p because workflow with 720 would be much easer then 1080p..thoughts anyone? -->>>

I think that's a good idea. Certainly, it would make it easier on editor's that don't have a system or monitor that can handle 1080p.

And then go back to the 1080p for online edit and color correction?


That being said, if you're going to be using this for feature film photography - you might be just as well of down converting to SD for your offline. There's no reason to take up a lot of space or mess with large render times if you're going to have to do an online edit later anyway.

That was always my intention. Capture in 1080p. Cut in 480p. Then go back and do an online, color correction, titles, etc.

35mm adapter parts list
 

hi everyone: I have started a new thread with complete
parts list, and photo for the 35mm adapter.

And here is the link to that new thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=37296

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : We are now moving the image preview/display off the CPU and into the GPU of our motherboard...this will allow much more CPU time for other things like Histogram etc in realtime..not to mention the use of a lower-cost slower CPU if we want..this work is being done as I speak and we are still awaiting the 64bit card for capture of the native raw 10bit 1080p footage..any day now...64bit ...arrgg I hate waiting !!
-->>

Good to hear the progress, I have been talking to Rob privately about it several months ago, after the response I got to suggesting GPU programming here before. I passed on information on two or three GPU API systems to them. Do we have any idea how small, and the breakdown, of the processor load is for single chip 720p is now?

I understand that upcoming (2005) new mobile versions of 0.9 micron AMD processors will also run at respectively low powered levels (can't rememeber but in the 20watt range, maybe sub 20). VIA will be releasing new 2+GHZ and dual core processors in a few months, hopefully in the same package. This how ever does not help old weak GPU and ethernet systems, but eventually they should be replaced. The power requirement is 3.5watt at 1 Ghz now (so a dual core will be 7w per 2Ghz). Still irrelavent for our purposes, but hopefully they get there act together.


<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : I am now thinking that I may just downsize the 1080P image after capture to 720p because workflow with 720 would be much easer then 1080p..thoughts anyone? -->>>

I have often wondered about image problems at 720p or SD preview. There are certain electrical interferences that can mar an image that may go unoticed in the 720p and SD downsized images. These might rarely happen in reality, but it might go unoticed for a while.

I have often wondered about image problems at 720p or SD preview. There are certain electrical interferences that can mar an image that may go unoticed in the 720p and SD downsized images. These might rarely happen in reality, but it might go unoticed for a while.


What?! I don't understand that one Wayne...

Strong electromagnetic feild, electrical/power faults might put up a fine pattern of niose pattern wobbling through the image (or any other fault) that goes unoticed when averaged out in the downscaling of the preview. Also undesired fine visual detail, paterns that might cause certain strobing, staircasing due to the bayer filter pattern. Just thin possibility, otherwise there is nothing wrong with it.

a good camera product should never have those problems, not if it's properly engineered/constructed.

Circumstances would be normally exceptional with a very well made and conditioned eng camera. Buit with simple cheap cameras attached to not so reliable PC's, who knows. But don't worry about it, Obin asked for comment, and those were the only two things that I knew of.