4:4:4 10bit single CMOS HD project

Obin Olson · February 5th, 2005, 12:50 PM

my programmer says "forget it" if it does not have AGP as he is using DIRectX and we need a graphics card for that...anymore ideas gang?

Jason Rodriguez · February 5th, 2005, 01:13 PM

Not really, I mean you have to use something that's using the 855GME/6300ESB chipset if you're going with Penitum M, and the DFI is the only one I know of that uses PCI-X and AGP. Needing those three items is actually a pretty obscure combination.

There is an option with the P620x from GMS (http://www.gms4sbc.com), but that is a PMC interface they use on their system, so you'll have to search for some adapters to get the PMC-X slots to a PCI-X slot form-factor to work with the Epix card, and then again, there's no guarentees that it will work, because technically your DFI set-up should work.

Do any cards work in the PCI-X slot? If not, then it might just be a bad board.

The only other option I can think of is to go COM-Express and have somebody build you a custom baseboard with everything you need, but the NRE on that is $20,000 and up depending on what you want integrated. And again no promises that the Epix card is going to work with that setup, because it's not working with a setup it's suppose to work with in the first place.

Frankly I'd go back to Epix and ask them "what gives?" I'm sure you paid a nice penny for that board, and it's suppose to work. You're not using an obscure combination, and it needs to work, because then there's no guarantee that any PCI-X motherboard out there will work.

Before you go shopping for other boards, get to the bottom of what's wrong with your combination.

Obin Olson · February 5th, 2005, 01:16 PM

I don't have any cards to try in pci-x slot.. ideas for a low cost test solution Jason? I guess I should test the slot with a standard card

Jason Rodriguez · February 5th, 2005, 01:19 PM

Yes,

any PCI card should also work in PCI-X slot (of course depening on the voltage that slot is delivering).

What's the voltage that the Epix card needs?

There are 5V and 3.3V PCI-X slots out there, and the two are not necessarily compatible with each other. Some slots are suppose to be universal, but other's aren't.

Obin Olson · February 5th, 2005, 01:30 PM

I am not sure what the voltage is EPix wants..I will look at the card now and see if I can find any info...

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · February 5th, 2005, 04:54 PM

Well DFI board says PCI X 2.2 so I guess it is 3.3 V.
Maybe I'm wrong anyway

David Farland · February 5th, 2005, 05:08 PM

You can't go past ringing Epix tech support and talking to them about compatibilies of their board i.e speed, pci-x 1.0a specs etc, with other motherboards.
Also I hope you're using these sites for ideas http://www.motherboards.org/mobot/index.html & http://users.erols.com/chare/main.htm
Is your spec 64bit/pci-x-66mhz/agp/SFF with low cpu current as optional? How cpu hungry is your capture anyway.
Forgeting temperature, APC have a couple of boards
http://www.americanpredator.com/prod...ers/index.html
Then you have all the industrial single xeons (7501/05)which are much cooler than P4's.
Thank you,
David Farland

Jason Rodriguez · February 5th, 2005, 07:41 PM

The American Preditor board looks pretty good, although you better go with a Xeon that's 2.4Ghz or lower if you want battery power, and even then, you might be talking about a Hytron 120 or Dionic 160 on the Anton Bauer line-up.

Of course, if you've been looking at doing compression, such as DNxHD, that might flush those possibilities, but I'm not sure how processor and resource intensive DNxHD is.

BTW, Juan is right, just looked some more info, and PCI-X 2.2 is only 3.3V, not 5V, so make sure that the Epix cards don't need 5V to run.

Obin Olson · February 5th, 2005, 08:05 PM

thank you Jason. I will make it a point on monday to ask Epix what the voltage is for the CL2 64bit pci-x card..I think it's PCI-x 2.2 but not sure

No compression on the fly - it will be a post shooting task

David Farland · February 5th, 2005, 08:59 PM

Whilst you're speaking to Epix I'd also ask them-

i.What is the cpu/mem % usage on their 'test system whilst capturing?
ii.Lowest spec system that would support capture only?

iii. Current drain/s of board?

Depending on who you speak to, it's best to follow-up with an email on tech questions just so the guy has time to check with the company guru.
I'm still phased on how Epix are able to capture 400MB/sec on a 64bit/66Mhz bus. Must be no cpu happening.
If you speak to Blackmagic on their Decklink hd which max's out at 240MB, they insist on 64bit/100Mhz.

DF,

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · February 5th, 2005, 09:06 PM

Who said Epix was capturing 400 Megabytes per second??
I've lost that part.

Obin Olson · February 5th, 2005, 10:07 PM

I don't care about what they are capturing at...it's not the issue. The problem is the fact that windows can't use the hardware on the 64bit slot. This is a big problem and untill we have an answer for this we can't move forward with our development.

David Farland · February 5th, 2005, 10:13 PM

Saw it here:
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:e...bit+Epix&hl=en

ta,
Dave Farland

Wayne Morellini · February 6th, 2005, 02:19 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : my programmer says "forget it" if it does not have AGP as he is using DIRectX and we need a graphics card for that...anymore ideas gang? -->>>

AGP on board the motherboard is still AGP under direct X controll (though ussually a lot less efficient AGP which might also be a speed problem).

You are most likely facing some hitch that will be corrected. Ring Epix and DFI and ask them what it could be. It could just be a driver or bios problem that they need to fix, and will when they get around to it, but until they know about it they won't be able, sort of thing.

You have the first board, keep them informed, that is how some companies work, they don't correct things until the users finds out there is something.

All is not lost, just takes time for them to sort out new hardware combinations.

David Farland · February 6th, 2005, 05:16 AM

The things I can think of-

i.Enable DMA

ii.Try win2K cos this looks like their first xp of the range.

iii.If after 2 days of support/trying, get them to fix it, ship it to them, as WM says you're their beta tester.

iv. Ask them what mobo actually works and get it.
If it's incompatible you're still able to develop whilst your looking for your next sff mobo.

v. Find out from DFI what spec the pci-x slot.

vi. Send the DFI mobo spec to EPIX support this weekend.

vii. Ring your local computer shop/s, tell them your after a pci-x system but only if your board works in it.
Sorta the truth if the DFI doesn't work and you want to continue developing.

In six months this problem will be FORGOTTEN!

Good luck,

DF

February 5th, 2005, 12:50 PM	#2431
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	my programmer says "forget it" if it does not have AGP as he is using DIRectX and we need a graphics card for that...anymore ideas gang?

February 5th, 2005, 01:13 PM	#2432
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Not really, I mean you have to use something that's using the 855GME/6300ESB chipset if you're going with Penitum M, and the DFI is the only one I know of that uses PCI-X and AGP. Needing those three items is actually a pretty obscure combination. There is an option with the P620x from GMS (http://www.gms4sbc.com), but that is a PMC interface they use on their system, so you'll have to search for some adapters to get the PMC-X slots to a PCI-X slot form-factor to work with the Epix card, and then again, there's no guarentees that it will work, because technically your DFI set-up should work. Do any cards work in the PCI-X slot? If not, then it might just be a bad board. The only other option I can think of is to go COM-Express and have somebody build you a custom baseboard with everything you need, but the NRE on that is $20,000 and up depending on what you want integrated. And again no promises that the Epix card is going to work with that setup, because it's not working with a setup it's suppose to work with in the first place. Frankly I'd go back to Epix and ask them "what gives?" I'm sure you paid a nice penny for that board, and it's suppose to work. You're not using an obscure combination, and it needs to work, because then there's no guarantee that any PCI-X motherboard out there will work. Before you go shopping for other boards, get to the bottom of what's wrong with your combination.

February 5th, 2005, 01:16 PM	#2433
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	I don't have any cards to try in pci-x slot.. ideas for a low cost test solution Jason? I guess I should test the slot with a standard card

February 5th, 2005, 01:19 PM	#2434
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Yes, any PCI card should also work in PCI-X slot (of course depening on the voltage that slot is delivering). What's the voltage that the Epix card needs? There are 5V and 3.3V PCI-X slots out there, and the two are not necessarily compatible with each other. Some slots are suppose to be universal, but other's aren't.

February 5th, 2005, 01:30 PM	#2435
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	I am not sure what the voltage is EPix wants..I will look at the card now and see if I can find any info...

February 5th, 2005, 04:54 PM	#2436
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	Well DFI board says PCI X 2.2 so I guess it is 3.3 V. Maybe I'm wrong anyway

February 5th, 2005, 05:08 PM	#2437
David Farland Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 32	You can't go past ringing Epix tech support and talking to them about compatibilies of their board i.e speed, pci-x 1.0a specs etc, with other motherboards. Also I hope you're using these sites for ideas http://www.motherboards.org/mobot/index.html & http://users.erols.com/chare/main.htm Is your spec 64bit/pci-x-66mhz/agp/SFF with low cpu current as optional? How cpu hungry is your capture anyway. Forgeting temperature, APC have a couple of boards http://www.americanpredator.com/prod...ers/index.html Then you have all the industrial single xeons (7501/05)which are much cooler than P4's. Thank you, David Farland

February 5th, 2005, 07:41 PM	#2438
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	The American Preditor board looks pretty good, although you better go with a Xeon that's 2.4Ghz or lower if you want battery power, and even then, you might be talking about a Hytron 120 or Dionic 160 on the Anton Bauer line-up. Of course, if you've been looking at doing compression, such as DNxHD, that might flush those possibilities, but I'm not sure how processor and resource intensive DNxHD is. BTW, Juan is right, just looked some more info, and PCI-X 2.2 is only 3.3V, not 5V, so make sure that the Epix cards don't need 5V to run.

February 5th, 2005, 08:05 PM	#2439
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	thank you Jason. I will make it a point on monday to ask Epix what the voltage is for the CL2 64bit pci-x card..I think it's PCI-x 2.2 but not sure No compression on the fly - it will be a post shooting task

February 5th, 2005, 08:59 PM	#2440
David Farland Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 32	Whilst you're speaking to Epix I'd also ask them- i.What is the cpu/mem % usage on their 'test system whilst capturing? ii.Lowest spec system that would support capture only? iii. Current drain/s of board? Depending on who you speak to, it's best to follow-up with an email on tech questions just so the guy has time to check with the company guru. I'm still phased on how Epix are able to capture 400MB/sec on a 64bit/66Mhz bus. Must be no cpu happening. If you speak to Blackmagic on their Decklink hd which max's out at 240MB, they insist on 64bit/100Mhz. DF,

February 5th, 2005, 09:06 PM	#2441
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	Who said Epix was capturing 400 Megabytes per second?? I've lost that part.

February 5th, 2005, 10:07 PM	#2442
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	I don't care about what they are capturing at...it's not the issue. The problem is the fact that windows can't use the hardware on the 64bit slot. This is a big problem and untill we have an answer for this we can't move forward with our development.

February 5th, 2005, 10:13 PM	#2443
David Farland Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 32	Saw it here: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:e...bit+Epix&hl=en ta, Dave Farland

February 6th, 2005, 02:19 AM	#2444
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : my programmer says "forget it" if it does not have AGP as he is using DIRectX and we need a graphics card for that...anymore ideas gang? -->>> AGP on board the motherboard is still AGP under direct X controll (though ussually a lot less efficient AGP which might also be a speed problem). You are most likely facing some hitch that will be corrected. Ring Epix and DFI and ask them what it could be. It could just be a driver or bios problem that they need to fix, and will when they get around to it, but until they know about it they won't be able, sort of thing. You have the first board, keep them informed, that is how some companies work, they don't correct things until the users finds out there is something. All is not lost, just takes time for them to sort out new hardware combinations.

February 6th, 2005, 05:16 AM	#2445
David Farland Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 32	The things I can think of- i.Enable DMA ii.Try win2K cos this looks like their first xp of the range. iii.If after 2 days of support/trying, get them to fix it, ship it to them, as WM says you're their beta tester. iv. Ask them what mobo actually works and get it. If it's incompatible you're still able to develop whilst your looking for your next sff mobo. v. Find out from DFI what spec the pci-x slot. vi. Send the DFI mobo spec to EPIX support this weekend. vii. Ring your local computer shop/s, tell them your after a pci-x system but only if your board works in it. Sorta the truth if the DFI doesn't work and you want to continue developing. In six months this problem will be FORGOTTEN! Good luck, DF