4:4:4 10bit single CMOS HD project

Adrian White · November 22nd, 2004, 09:55 AM

Rob Lohman,

Could you possible shortlist some of these 48fps-24fps solutions for me? I am looking to purchase equipment within next two weeks.

Steve Nordhauser · November 22nd, 2004, 11:13 AM

Ronald:
The Pixel link is an IBIS-5A camera. Global shutter, 6.7 microns. In global shutter mode, you will only get those frame rates with no exposure time. Otherwise, exposure and readout times add together to make the total frame rate. Check the posts from Ben - he has had good luck with IBIS-5A cameras but we discourage them for DV applications.

Obin Olson · November 22nd, 2004, 02:56 PM

looking good we need 16bit tiff export from that convert app to have any use from it at this point.

Latest Raw file format at 12bit 1080x1920
www.dv3productions.com/pub/Rec00001.rw2

Will Griffith · November 22nd, 2004, 06:24 PM

>>Latest Raw file format at 12bit 1080x1920
>>www.dv3productions.com/pub/Rec00001.rw2

wow. that's a lot of latitude.

do you have a website for this camera yet? We would be
interested in one of these when it's complete.

Thanks,
Will Griffith
producer/editor

Obin Olson · November 22nd, 2004, 07:17 PM

Yes Will it's amazing what I am getting from the Camera at this point..if your new you may not have seen some of the great images I have because of server space. Our ISP told us to delete stuff because we are over the 1 gig limit..I will try and repost some stuff soon for the new people on the list

We have the 2 SATA disks from WD. Nice HEAVY DUTY disk drives..they really feel heavy when I compare them with the standard IDE drive ...anyway I have the Drives and motherboard..still waiting on the CPU a Dothan 2.0ghz and I gota find a TINY atx powersupply or figure out how to feed 12v into the atx connector on the motherboard..anyone want to give me a clue about motherboard power??

David Newman:
I need your stuff for testing!

Wayne Morellini · November 22nd, 2004, 07:35 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ronald Biese :
..
with Linux
as I do have in some days my code ready to get anything from an Gig E port direct to disk array and each time it starts a new file -->>>

Cool!

Hayden Rivers · November 22nd, 2004, 09:08 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : looking good we need 16bit tiff export from that convert app to have any use from it at this point.

Latest Raw file format at 12bit 1080x1920
www.dv3productions.com/pub/Rec00001.rw2 -->>>

How are we supposed to open files with the extension .rw2?

Obin Olson · November 22nd, 2004, 10:29 PM

your not. that is a RAW data file that some on the board can play with if they write code. Not for consumer use. ;)

I am working on the tiff fix. It looks like we are using a SDK for tiff save that may be trashing 1/2 the data before save

BTW I got my dirty little hands on some good C-mount lenses today from a National Geo / BBC camera guy / Producer that just moved to town. He has lots of 8 and 16mm lenses. I will do some tests with them asap and post results :0

Will Griffith · November 23rd, 2004, 12:55 AM

>>How are we supposed to open
>>files with the extension .rw2?

change extension to .raw, open with photoshop

- 1920x1080
- 1 channel
- 16bit

-will

Joonas Kiviharju · November 23rd, 2004, 02:14 AM

Ronald:

Yes, it's C++. I don't know about the speed of the program, as I haven't got anything to compare with. Should compile on linux without any problems. You just need FreeImage and FreeImagePlus (find them, make them, install them, -link: -lfreeimage -lfreeimageplus). It was written on linux, but the last version was ported to mingw32, so there might be some code left, that doesn't work with linux (but there shouldn't be).

Obin:

Sorry, if it doesn't work for you. I think I can't get 16bit files out of FreeImage library, because it uses BYTEs. And as far as I know BYTE is 8bits. If I'll find some library with 16bit TIFF read/write, then I might be able to do it later, but it propably won't happen soon.

If somebody's already tested my program, I have to say that it uses the Variable number of gradients method by default. You can use the Bilinear interpolation method by giving the command --interpolation on the commandline. The gradients method worked well with the trucks picture, but the interpolation was better on the flowers. The gradients method is exactly the same as described in that paper about debayer methods - and it was supposed to be the best method in that paper. In the flower picture it makes some new kind of artifacts, kind of like "maze - or labyrinth" like pattern. And on the trucks picture it doesn't get rid of all the zig-zag, but some of it is gone. I also tried coding the Laplacian second order methods but they give me some strange results on the dark areas, and overall, they don't seem perfect even if they worked.

So, I think that it would be best to make a basic interpolation and then remove the zig-zags with some simple algorithm. I'm slowly working on that and the 16bit export.

Jason Rodriguez · November 23rd, 2004, 09:46 AM

Obin,

What are those verticle stripes going down the image?

Obin Olson · November 23rd, 2004, 12:19 PM

not sure jason screengrab what your talking about and I will check it out

Régine Weinberg · November 23rd, 2004, 12:25 PM

Hi
you wrote----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronald:
The Pixel link is an IBIS-5A camera. Global shutter, 6.7 microns. In global shutter mode, you will only get those frame rates with no exposure time. Otherwise, exposure and readout times add together to make the total frame rate. Check the posts from Ben - he has had good luck with IBIS-5A cameras but we discourage them for DV applications.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do think so too, but Rai and Markus do use the same chip. I wonder how they and why they do it ?

Anyway any news for Gig E Altasens ??

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · November 23rd, 2004, 05:30 PM

What was the mother you were using?
The one Jason told us about? (Kontron)
Or the new Mini-ITX from DFI ?

Wayne Morellini · November 23rd, 2004, 11:54 PM

Ronald

If I can rember right from the posts, it is because IBIS5 is the only relative CMOS Global shutter solution available, and they have better external AD convertor than IBIS5a normally comes with. But still performance is less than Micron Obin used (which has different faults).

Rob S (Steve)

How did you go with adjusting gain etc to get past the smearing? From memory, Obin also mentioned that for some reason he had to adjust his camera by 3db from 0db to get normal image (I forget either +-). I speculated that the camera might have been a bit faulty, have you found the same problem?

Also, when are they going to upgrade that camera to the new non smear technology of the 1080 version.

In matter of fact, I'm sure somebody mentioned a 720p Altasens before based on their older sensors, does such a beast exist, and how good/cheap is it to use compared to Micron/IBIS ones?

November 22nd, 2004, 09:55 AM	#2221
Adrian White Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: leicester uk Posts: 26	Rob Lohman, Could you possible shortlist some of these 48fps-24fps solutions for me? I am looking to purchase equipment within next two weeks. __________________ how far can we push these cameras?

November 22nd, 2004, 11:13 AM	#2222
Steve Nordhauser Silicon Imaging, Inc. Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troy, NY USA Posts: 325	Ronald: The Pixel link is an IBIS-5A camera. Global shutter, 6.7 microns. In global shutter mode, you will only get those frame rates with no exposure time. Otherwise, exposure and readout times add together to make the total frame rate. Check the posts from Ben - he has had good luck with IBIS-5A cameras but we discourage them for DV applications. __________________ Silicon Imaging, Inc. We see the Light! http://www.siliconimaging.com

November 22nd, 2004, 06:24 PM	#2224
Will Griffith Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tennessee Posts: 164	just found this thread... >>Latest Raw file format at 12bit 1080x1920 >>www.dv3productions.com/pub/Rec00001.rw2 wow. that's a lot of latitude. do you have a website for this camera yet? We would be interested in one of these when it's complete. Thanks, Will Griffith producer/editor

November 23rd, 2004, 12:25 PM	#2233
Régine Weinberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bordeaux, going to Bangkok, 2011 Posts: 232	to Steve Hi you wrote---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ronald: The Pixel link is an IBIS-5A camera. Global shutter, 6.7 microns. In global shutter mode, you will only get those frame rates with no exposure time. Otherwise, exposure and readout times add together to make the total frame rate. Check the posts from Ben - he has had good luck with IBIS-5A cameras but we discourage them for DV applications. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I do think so too, but Rai and Markus do use the same chip. I wonder how they and why they do it ? Anyway any news for Gig E Altasens ??

November 23rd, 2004, 11:54 PM	#2235
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	720p Altasens and other issues Ronald If I can rember right from the posts, it is because IBIS5 is the only relative CMOS Global shutter solution available, and they have better external AD convertor than IBIS5a normally comes with. But still performance is less than Micron Obin used (which has different faults). Rob S (Steve) How did you go with adjusting gain etc to get past the smearing? From memory, Obin also mentioned that for some reason he had to adjust his camera by 3db from 0db to get normal image (I forget either +-). I speculated that the camera might have been a bit faulty, have you found the same problem? Also, when are they going to upgrade that camera to the new non smear technology of the 1080 version. In matter of fact, I'm sure somebody mentioned a 720p Altasens before based on their older sensors, does such a beast exist, and how good/cheap is it to use compared to Micron/IBIS ones?

November 22nd, 2004, 02:56 PM	#2223
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	looking good we need 16bit tiff export from that convert app to have any use from it at this point. Latest Raw file format at 12bit 1080x1920 www.dv3productions.com/pub/Rec00001.rw2

November 22nd, 2004, 07:17 PM	#2225
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	Yes Will it's amazing what I am getting from the Camera at this point..if your new you may not have seen some of the great images I have because of server space. Our ISP told us to delete stuff because we are over the 1 gig limit..I will try and repost some stuff soon for the new people on the list We have the 2 SATA disks from WD. Nice HEAVY DUTY disk drives..they really feel heavy when I compare them with the standard IDE drive ...anyway I have the Drives and motherboard..still waiting on the CPU a Dothan 2.0ghz and I gota find a TINY atx powersupply or figure out how to feed 12v into the atx connector on the motherboard..anyone want to give me a clue about motherboard power?? David Newman: I need your stuff for testing!

November 22nd, 2004, 07:35 PM	#2226
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	<<<-- Originally posted by Ronald Biese : .. with Linux as I do have in some days my code ready to get anything from an Gig E port direct to disk array and each time it starts a new file -->>> Cool!

November 22nd, 2004, 09:08 PM	#2227
Hayden Rivers Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 53	<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : looking good we need 16bit tiff export from that convert app to have any use from it at this point. Latest Raw file format at 12bit 1080x1920 www.dv3productions.com/pub/Rec00001.rw2 -->>> How are we supposed to open files with the extension .rw2?

November 22nd, 2004, 10:29 PM	#2228
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	your not. that is a RAW data file that some on the board can play with if they write code. Not for consumer use. ;) I am working on the tiff fix. It looks like we are using a SDK for tiff save that may be trashing 1/2 the data before save BTW I got my dirty little hands on some good C-mount lenses today from a National Geo / BBC camera guy / Producer that just moved to town. He has lots of 8 and 16mm lenses. I will do some tests with them asap and post results :0

November 23rd, 2004, 12:55 AM	#2229
Will Griffith Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tennessee Posts: 164	>>How are we supposed to open >>files with the extension .rw2? change extension to .raw, open with photoshop - 1920x1080 - 1 channel - 16bit -will

November 23rd, 2004, 02:14 AM	#2230
Joonas Kiviharju Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 52	Ronald: Yes, it's C++. I don't know about the speed of the program, as I haven't got anything to compare with. Should compile on linux without any problems. You just need FreeImage and FreeImagePlus (find them, make them, install them, -link: -lfreeimage -lfreeimageplus). It was written on linux, but the last version was ported to mingw32, so there might be some code left, that doesn't work with linux (but there shouldn't be). Obin: Sorry, if it doesn't work for you. I think I can't get 16bit files out of FreeImage library, because it uses BYTEs. And as far as I know BYTE is 8bits. If I'll find some library with 16bit TIFF read/write, then I might be able to do it later, but it propably won't happen soon. If somebody's already tested my program, I have to say that it uses the Variable number of gradients method by default. You can use the Bilinear interpolation method by giving the command --interpolation on the commandline. The gradients method worked well with the trucks picture, but the interpolation was better on the flowers. The gradients method is exactly the same as described in that paper about debayer methods - and it was supposed to be the best method in that paper. In the flower picture it makes some new kind of artifacts, kind of like "maze - or labyrinth" like pattern. And on the trucks picture it doesn't get rid of all the zig-zag, but some of it is gone. I also tried coding the Laplacian second order methods but they give me some strange results on the dark areas, and overall, they don't seem perfect even if they worked. So, I think that it would be best to make a basic interpolation and then remove the zig-zags with some simple algorithm. I'm slowly working on that and the 16bit export.

November 23rd, 2004, 09:46 AM	#2231
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Obin, What are those verticle stripes going down the image?

November 23rd, 2004, 12:19 PM	#2232
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	not sure jason screengrab what your talking about and I will check it out

November 23rd, 2004, 05:30 PM	#2234
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	What was the mother you were using? The one Jason told us about? (Kontron) Or the new Mini-ITX from DFI ?