4:4:4 10bit single CMOS HD project

Jason Rodriguez · October 22nd, 2004, 01:11 PM

BTW guys,

Biggest concern here that nobody seems to be addressing, and that's the issue of sound-sync.

Rai, is your camera sound-sync, or does it go out-of-sync when recording for longer periods?

Rob Lohman · October 23rd, 2004, 04:28 AM

Jason: that is a good point. Are you talking about recording sound
with an external device and then synching that up, or do you think
the camera records sound as well? I would suspect it is the former.

Jason Rodriguez · October 23rd, 2004, 10:48 AM

The former. And I think we MUST test that out and see what the problems are, or else we're going to have big problems with our cameras basically not being well-suited for production.

BTW, the "external" recording device can be a DV camera.

Wayne Morellini · October 23rd, 2004, 11:14 AM

Maybe a good assumption, there are a few groups here who intend on selling.

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : I appologize to you as well Wayne if you haven't received a reply,
sorry about that.

It looks like we will not agree on this, and that's fine. I'm not sure
why a new camera would be a threat. I welcome Rai and his new
camera.

I'm wondering why you keep talking about a "business". I have
not seen Rai talking about a business or commercial effort other
than that his new camera will be used to shoot a movie with. -->>>

Obin Olson · October 24th, 2004, 01:19 PM

does anyone know of a good microatx board that has AGP and PCI or pci-x? I have to buy a board for testing with a Mobile chip on it..without this I will have no idea how well CineLink will function on a Mobile chip ;) ideas group?

BTW the tiny motherboards with on-board video will NOT work..I have tested with onboard, it's is much too slow.We need an AGP slot for video..I have never seen a micro board with agp..anyone have some info for that?

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · October 24th, 2004, 05:57 PM

What resolution are you showing on screen?
if it is 960x540 at 24 fps it is around 37 MB/s so I can't see how you can't show that with the built in board.....
If it werent possible you wouldn't be able to see any standard resolution video on them neither..

Obin Olson · October 24th, 2004, 06:34 PM

960x540 24fps yes..it is really slow on the built in cards..I just found an Aopen microATX board that has pci and agp slots..I will buy that one now for testing

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · October 24th, 2004, 11:12 PM

But the machine I'm using right now to write this has a Crappy SIS embedded video card using 8 MB of share memory.Running WinXP with just 256 MB on an Athlon XP 2000 and it plays 1024x768 8 bit uncompressed without problems.
It doesn't work with higher uncompressed resolutions cause it gets HDD speed limited.
1280x720 HiDef WMV9 works smoothly too......

Jason Rodriguez · October 24th, 2004, 11:32 PM

Obin, are you using OpenGL or DirectX (DirectShow)?

Also were you using the Axiomtek board? What small motherboard were you using?

Rob Lohman · October 25th, 2004, 04:34 AM

Jason: I fully agree. Audio needs to be sorted out fast and on a
pretty long recording as well to see if it drifts and if so how bad.

Conor Ryan · October 25th, 2004, 04:48 AM

Hi all, first off, I've been following the board for a while and have been really impressed by everything everyone has done so far.

Obin, I'm not exactly sure if this will fulfil all your needs, but I found something with alot of the right stuff here:
http://www.rei.ricoh.com/download/pr...oduct_FB8M.pdf
The model is the FB8M

According to http://www.bwi.com/scripts/site/site....php3/id/9689/, this board is subject to a minimum order, but perhaps you can get single units elsewhere.

<<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : does anyone know of a good microatx board that has AGP and PCI or pci-x? -->>>

Jason Rodriguez · October 25th, 2004, 06:01 AM

Conor,

I'm not sure that the board you spec'd is going to help out Obin, and then again, I'm not sure that Obin is necessarily having a problem with slow on-board graphics.

Even though the board you listed has an AGP slot, the graphics it's using is the Intel Extreme 2 which is embedded in the 855GME chipset. All these small boards that are high-quality now are using this 855GME/6300ESB chipset.

The Intel Extreme Graphics 2 engine is pretty nice. The only downside might be that it works off of the main system memory, so you'll want the fastest RAM you can put in (DDR333 for these chipsets).

Here's the specs:

http://www.intel.com/design/graphics...2_brochure.pdf

As you can see, they're pretty good, especially for embedded graphics. Maybe they're not a NV40 or X800, but I don't think we need anything better than Geforce2 or Radeon 7500 for these apps, do we?

Quote:

But the machine I'm using right now to write this has a Crappy SIS embedded video card using 8 MB of share memory

Is that shared with the main system memory (any type of UMA), or is it dedicated graphics memory?

If so, then again, this makes me think it's another problem, not a chipset/graphics problem.

I guess when we find out if Obin's using DirectX/OpenGL or what, we'll find out.

BTW, for 2D graphics, the Intel Extreme 2 Graphics engine is optimized for DirectShow, GDI+ and GDI.

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · October 25th, 2004, 06:30 AM

yes, it is shared with the main memory.That leaves 248 MB for the OS. :(
Also if someone is interest the memory is DDR 266 and the video processor clock is 133 MHZ.

Jason Rodriguez · October 25th, 2004, 08:04 AM

Quote:

lso if someone is interest the memory is DDR 266 and the video processor clock is 133 MHZ.

So then the Axiomtek and Kontron embedded boards should be fine, because they're using the 855GME, so you can use up to DDR333 for faster graphics performance (at least on the Kontron board).

Wayne Morellini · October 25th, 2004, 08:34 AM

Hmm, the problem with these onboard scheemes (and cards in general) is that there are so many ways they work, and many onboarders are less than impressive. So sometimes you may have to program different subroutine sets to get most of the cards working at optimal performance (something like the GAPI API does this for you). You wouldn't think this was a problem in 2D, but it is possible that the chip UMA is upsetting the stream lined pci->memory->cache->processor and back to disk chain, and causing stalls and misses. Somewtimes it is a bios issue, and short of getting the MB manufacturer to do a bios upgrade, there maybe nothing that canbe done with the board.

Juan, good to hear that my old SIS 8MB might be upto it ;)

October 23rd, 2004, 04:28 AM	#1847
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Jason: that is a good point. Are you talking about recording sound with an external device and then synching that up, or do you think the camera records sound as well? I would suspect it is the former. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 25th, 2004, 04:34 AM	#1855
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Jason: I fully agree. Audio needs to be sorted out fast and on a pretty long recording as well to see if it drifts and if so how bad. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 22nd, 2004, 01:11 PM	#1846
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	BTW guys, Biggest concern here that nobody seems to be addressing, and that's the issue of sound-sync. Rai, is your camera sound-sync, or does it go out-of-sync when recording for longer periods?

October 23rd, 2004, 10:48 AM	#1848
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	The former. And I think we MUST test that out and see what the problems are, or else we're going to have big problems with our cameras basically not being well-suited for production. BTW, the "external" recording device can be a DV camera.

October 23rd, 2004, 11:14 AM	#1849
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Maybe a good assumption, there are a few groups here who intend on selling. <<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : I appologize to you as well Wayne if you haven't received a reply, sorry about that. It looks like we will not agree on this, and that's fine. I'm not sure why a new camera would be a threat. I welcome Rai and his new camera. I'm wondering why you keep talking about a "business". I have not seen Rai talking about a business or commercial effort other than that his new camera will be used to shoot a movie with. -->>>

October 24th, 2004, 01:19 PM	#1850
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	does anyone know of a good microatx board that has AGP and PCI or pci-x? I have to buy a board for testing with a Mobile chip on it..without this I will have no idea how well CineLink will function on a Mobile chip ;) ideas group? BTW the tiny motherboards with on-board video will NOT work..I have tested with onboard, it's is much too slow.We need an AGP slot for video..I have never seen a micro board with agp..anyone have some info for that?

October 24th, 2004, 05:57 PM	#1851
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	What resolution are you showing on screen? if it is 960x540 at 24 fps it is around 37 MB/s so I can't see how you can't show that with the built in board..... If it werent possible you wouldn't be able to see any standard resolution video on them neither..

October 24th, 2004, 06:34 PM	#1852
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	960x540 24fps yes..it is really slow on the built in cards..I just found an Aopen microATX board that has pci and agp slots..I will buy that one now for testing

October 24th, 2004, 11:12 PM	#1853
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	But the machine I'm using right now to write this has a Crappy SIS embedded video card using 8 MB of share memory.Running WinXP with just 256 MB on an Athlon XP 2000 and it plays 1024x768 8 bit uncompressed without problems. It doesn't work with higher uncompressed resolutions cause it gets HDD speed limited. 1280x720 HiDef WMV9 works smoothly too......

October 24th, 2004, 11:32 PM	#1854
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Obin, are you using OpenGL or DirectX (DirectShow)? Also were you using the Axiomtek board? What small motherboard were you using?

October 25th, 2004, 04:48 AM	#1856
Conor Ryan Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 67	Hi all, first off, I've been following the board for a while and have been really impressed by everything everyone has done so far. Obin, I'm not exactly sure if this will fulfil all your needs, but I found something with alot of the right stuff here: http://www.rei.ricoh.com/download/pr...oduct_FB8M.pdf The model is the FB8M According to http://www.bwi.com/scripts/site/site....php3/id/9689/, this board is subject to a minimum order, but perhaps you can get single units elsewhere. <<<-- Originally posted by Obin Olson : does anyone know of a good microatx board that has AGP and PCI or pci-x? -->>>

October 25th, 2004, 06:30 AM	#1858
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	yes, it is shared with the main memory.That leaves 248 MB for the OS. :( Also if someone is interest the memory is DDR 266 and the video processor clock is 133 MHZ.

October 25th, 2004, 08:34 AM	#1860
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Hmm, the problem with these onboard scheemes (and cards in general) is that there are so many ways they work, and many onboarders are less than impressive. So sometimes you may have to program different subroutine sets to get most of the cards working at optimal performance (something like the GAPI API does this for you). You wouldn't think this was a problem in 2D, but it is possible that the chip UMA is upsetting the stream lined pci->memory->cache->processor and back to disk chain, and causing stalls and misses. Somewtimes it is a bios issue, and short of getting the MB manufacturer to do a bios upgrade, there maybe nothing that canbe done with the board. Juan, good to hear that my old SIS 8MB might be upto it ;)