4:4:4 10bit single CMOS HD project

Adrian White · October 15th, 2004, 12:06 PM

Sounds great.
What chip was used?
How long did the whole setup take?
What was the cost of the project?
What is you're NLE editing path?
What lens mount?
Any chance of frame grabs, footage?
Would you be interested in building two more units for private sale in the uk?

I work for a production company in the uk looking to invest in its own equipment, having just secured financing from a company in Dubai. Please get in contact asap. either email me or reply on the forum.

adrianwhite@hotmail.com

Flax Johnson · October 15th, 2004, 12:44 PM

To Steve Nordhauser :

Hello Steve, Do u have a release date for the 1920HD.
I didn't find it on your web site.

I think, I will order you this one and the dev kit.

Regards,

Steve Nordhauser · October 15th, 2004, 12:49 PM

Flax,
The reason we are not putting much on the web site is that although the camera is real, the big box of sensors we have ordered is not real yet. I will let everyone know when it shows up.

Flax Johnson · October 15th, 2004, 12:50 PM

Thank you Steve for your answer

Rai Orz · October 15th, 2004, 01:30 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rai Orz : we have completed our movie camera. -->>>

The 23. this mounth, is THE day. On this day the shoots start for a big cinema fantasy movie.

Till them, we have a web side with all infos.

Jason Rodriguez · October 16th, 2004, 10:34 AM

What is the website's address?

Wayne Morellini · October 17th, 2004, 06:58 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rai Orz : we have completed our movie camera.

It shoot 720p / 24fps (global shutter) uncompressed to HDD and the CMOS pictures are amazingly. It looks like film, not like video. -->>>

Well Rai, congradulations on finally finishing that camera, I'd like to see the website myself, and see what brand camera components you used. I have seen your 35mm site, is it the same? This new firewire defintion, is that 800Mb/s version B or 1.6Gb/s version?

Thanks

Wayne.

Wayne Morellini · October 17th, 2004, 07:05 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Nordhauser : The gospel that I was told by frame grabber companies (may be outdated) was that you can always put a 32 bit card in a 64 bit slot (providing the voltages are correct (3.3 vs 5) but it will slow the whole PCI bus down to 32 bit. The same is true for clock frequency. -->>>

Thanks, I'll remember that, a 64bit slot is not one less 32bit slot. Would you know the cross compatability betyween the two versions (at least) of 64-bit PCI. I understand there was an older one before PCI-X in competition, or is there only one now? There is a bit of confusion as to what version the mainboard above has.

I know your piont about keeping device traffic off the PCI bus, very usefull for transactions and bandwidth.

Thanks

Wayne.

Rai Orz · October 17th, 2004, 10:32 AM

Wayne,
...no its will be a different web site, please wait a few days.

The new firewire. The only think i know from our electronic engeneers is: It will work with a 1080p /24fps camera.

Alexandru Raducanu · October 18th, 2004, 04:35 AM

I have found a chip made by Analog Devices, ADV202 that can encode realtime Motion Jpeg2000:

Complete single-chip JPEG2000 compression and decompression solution for video and still images
Programmable tile/image size with widths up to 2048 pixels in 3-component 4:2:2 interleaved mode, and up to 4096 pixels in single-component mode
Maximum tile/image height: 4096 pixels
Video interface directly supporting ITU.R-BT656, SMPTE125M PAL/ NTSC, SMPTE274M, SMPTE293M (525p), ITU.R-BT1358 (625p) or any video format with a maximum input rate of 65 MSPS for irreversible mode or 40 MSPS for reversible mode
Two or more ADV202s can be combined to support full-frame SMPTE274M HDTV (1080i) or SMPTE296M (720p)

the link is:
http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,,765...V202%2C00.html

If this chip would be on the camera or the frame grabber, then all of the storage problems would be gone....

Regards,
Alex

Richard Mellor · October 18th, 2004, 12:48 PM

looking forward to the new website.

Aaron Shaw · October 18th, 2004, 03:19 PM

Me too.

Rai, is this a camera design you plan on manufacturing and selling yourself?

Alexandru Raducanu · October 19th, 2004, 01:35 AM

And it costs 39$ per chip

Wayne Morellini · October 19th, 2004, 11:42 AM

People have been discussing these chips some time ago. Some people want to do FPGA instead. Without getting into the details of these chips the issues are. Where ever it has the power to compress it and can compress the right format in the right way. The format we are using for the moment is bayer single chip (different from normal single chip) 4:4:4, lossless compression (and whatever else we can add on latter). I this chip can do that then your in business. The other thing is price, putting this on a board could double the cost and finale price might be five times that. So if somebody does this it is fine.

Sumix is developing a compressed camera (and I'm sure there are others) for us, and Silicon Imaging intends to when a suitable FPGA becomes available. I am actually researching a cheap sensor (nice performance) that includes a lossless compression engine. The price maybe less than $100 all up per complete camera head with lossless compression (say $200 more realistically). But at the moment I think there maybe some artifical restriction. I am doing this quietly to see if I can get around the problems without certain parties blocking the initiative. But I have to get time in to do it properly.

Jason Rodriguez · October 19th, 2004, 01:02 PM

Hey guys,

Talked to a sales rep at Epix today, and he said that the 64-bit framegrabber probably won't be shipping till sometime in January or February.

BTW, is Epix really the best board for us to be using? I've been looking at EDT's offerings and those look pretty good too. Right now their cameralink cards run at 32-bit/66Mhz for a total of 240MB/s, twice as much as the 32-bit/33Mhz cards.

I guess the only thing is if I use their cards I'm going to have to find a programmer for a custom capture app. Oh well . . .

October 15th, 2004, 12:06 PM	#1816
Adrian White Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: leicester uk Posts: 26	to rai orz Sounds great. What chip was used? How long did the whole setup take? What was the cost of the project? What is you're NLE editing path? What lens mount? Any chance of frame grabs, footage? Would you be interested in building two more units for private sale in the uk? I work for a production company in the uk looking to invest in its own equipment, having just secured financing from a company in Dubai. Please get in contact asap. either email me or reply on the forum. adrianwhite@hotmail.com __________________ how far can we push these cameras?

October 15th, 2004, 12:49 PM	#1818
Steve Nordhauser Silicon Imaging, Inc. Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troy, NY USA Posts: 325	Flax, The reason we are not putting much on the web site is that although the camera is real, the big box of sensors we have ordered is not real yet. I will let everyone know when it shows up. __________________ Silicon Imaging, Inc. We see the Light! http://www.siliconimaging.com

October 18th, 2004, 04:35 AM	#1825
Alexandru Raducanu Tourist Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2	Hardware Realtime Lossless Motion Jpeg2000 I have found a chip made by Analog Devices, ADV202 that can encode realtime Motion Jpeg2000: Complete single-chip JPEG2000 compression and decompression solution for video and still images Programmable tile/image size with widths up to 2048 pixels in 3-component 4:2:2 interleaved mode, and up to 4096 pixels in single-component mode Maximum tile/image height: 4096 pixels Video interface directly supporting ITU.R-BT656, SMPTE125M PAL/ NTSC, SMPTE274M, SMPTE293M (525p), ITU.R-BT1358 (625p) or any video format with a maximum input rate of 65 MSPS for irreversible mode or 40 MSPS for reversible mode Two or more ADV202s can be combined to support full-frame SMPTE274M HDTV (1080i) or SMPTE296M (720p) the link is: http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,,765...V202%2C00.html If this chip would be on the camera or the frame grabber, then all of the storage problems would be gone.... Regards, Alex

October 18th, 2004, 12:48 PM	#1826
Richard Mellor Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: cambridge ma Posts: 247	new camera looking forward to the new website.

October 19th, 2004, 01:35 AM	#1828
Alexandru Raducanu Tourist Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2	Realtime Lossless Motion Jpeg2000 encoder And it costs 39$ per chip

October 15th, 2004, 12:44 PM	#1817
Flax Johnson New Boot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: France Posts: 21	To Steve Nordhauser : Hello Steve, Do u have a release date for the 1920HD. I didn't find it on your web site. I think, I will order you this one and the dev kit. Regards,

October 15th, 2004, 12:50 PM	#1819
Flax Johnson New Boot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: France Posts: 21	Thank you Steve for your answer

October 15th, 2004, 01:30 PM	#1820
Rai Orz Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 136	<<<-- Originally posted by Rai Orz : we have completed our movie camera. -->>> The 23. this mounth, is THE day. On this day the shoots start for a big cinema fantasy movie. Till them, we have a web side with all infos.

October 16th, 2004, 10:34 AM	#1821
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	What is the website's address?

October 17th, 2004, 06:58 AM	#1822
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	<<<-- Originally posted by Rai Orz : we have completed our movie camera. It shoot 720p / 24fps (global shutter) uncompressed to HDD and the CMOS pictures are amazingly. It looks like film, not like video. -->>> Well Rai, congradulations on finally finishing that camera, I'd like to see the website myself, and see what brand camera components you used. I have seen your 35mm site, is it the same? This new firewire defintion, is that 800Mb/s version B or 1.6Gb/s version? Thanks Wayne.

October 17th, 2004, 07:05 AM	#1823
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Nordhauser : The gospel that I was told by frame grabber companies (may be outdated) was that you can always put a 32 bit card in a 64 bit slot (providing the voltages are correct (3.3 vs 5) but it will slow the whole PCI bus down to 32 bit. The same is true for clock frequency. -->>> Thanks, I'll remember that, a 64bit slot is not one less 32bit slot. Would you know the cross compatability betyween the two versions (at least) of 64-bit PCI. I understand there was an older one before PCI-X in competition, or is there only one now? There is a bit of confusion as to what version the mainboard above has. I know your piont about keeping device traffic off the PCI bus, very usefull for transactions and bandwidth. Thanks Wayne.

October 17th, 2004, 10:32 AM	#1824
Rai Orz Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 136	Wayne, ...no its will be a different web site, please wait a few days. The new firewire. The only think i know from our electronic engeneers is: It will work with a 1080p /24fps camera.

October 18th, 2004, 03:19 PM	#1827
Aaron Shaw Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 587	Me too. Rai, is this a camera design you plan on manufacturing and selling yourself?

October 19th, 2004, 11:42 AM	#1829
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	People have been discussing these chips some time ago. Some people want to do FPGA instead. Without getting into the details of these chips the issues are. Where ever it has the power to compress it and can compress the right format in the right way. The format we are using for the moment is bayer single chip (different from normal single chip) 4:4:4, lossless compression (and whatever else we can add on latter). I this chip can do that then your in business. The other thing is price, putting this on a board could double the cost and finale price might be five times that. So if somebody does this it is fine. Sumix is developing a compressed camera (and I'm sure there are others) for us, and Silicon Imaging intends to when a suitable FPGA becomes available. I am actually researching a cheap sensor (nice performance) that includes a lossless compression engine. The price maybe less than $100 all up per complete camera head with lossless compression (say $200 more realistically). But at the moment I think there maybe some artifical restriction. I am doing this quietly to see if I can get around the problems without certain parties blocking the initiative. But I have to get time in to do it properly.

October 19th, 2004, 01:02 PM	#1830
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	Hey guys, Talked to a sales rep at Epix today, and he said that the 64-bit framegrabber probably won't be shipping till sometime in January or February. BTW, is Epix really the best board for us to be using? I've been looking at EDT's offerings and those look pretty good too. Right now their cameralink cards run at 32-bit/66Mhz for a total of 240MB/s, twice as much as the 32-bit/33Mhz cards. I guess the only thing is if I use their cards I'm going to have to find a programmer for a custom capture app. Oh well . . .