Hey Jonathan - Thanks for that post it definitely put the use of those lenses in a new light for me. I guess I got wrapped up in this adapter, it makes so much more possible I didn't think so much about how it will work under most normal shooting conditions, once I saw the breathing I figured they were unusable. I'll just have to keep playing with the lenses and see what they can do.

Brett - As far the AO I was using, I did one pass with 5 micron and one pass with 3 micron afterwards. I'm going to go over it again with the 3 to rub out any problems.

Sounds good Nick

And Johnathan I think you may be right about taking two weaker condensers and stacking them back to back with one back acting as the GG. Should work nicely.

-Brett

What's the haps everybody? We lurkers have nothing to read ;)

Does anyone know where I can find empty filter rings? I like the idea of building the adapter out of empty filter rings but I sure don't want to buy 10 UVs just to smash the glass out of them. Empty rings would be preferable.

thanks
jes

tiffen

Empty Tiffen Filter Rings
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Brett Erskine : tiffen -->>>

Do you have to buy them directly from Tiffen?

55mm filters
 

henrys.com will sell you a set of 10 55mm UV filters for 30 bucks (US). I'd say that's reasonable...

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3812526028&category=45087

Re: extension tube
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Damion Luaiye : Nick - the extension tube I have has a threaded lens mount and a threaded camera mount separated by three threaded removable rings (all are 52 mm). I simply unscrewed the camera mount piece and screwed the tube into a 55-52 step down ring.

- Damion -->>>

Damion,

What extension tube are you using?

Initial Test
 

Checking in to show some progress.

I followed James Webb's design for an AG-DVX100, only having to add another Hoya UV filter ring in between the GG and slr lens. This may be because of different thicknesses of my filter rings. It's still not perfect, but adding another may create too much distance. The spacing really does have to be spot on. Also, the Vivitar +4 CU does a decent job as a condensor. Unless I find something better, I may stick with this lens.

Some full-rez frame grabs. Applied Auto Levels in Photoshop. There's some slight vignetting at the top and lower right, but this is likely due to not being zoomed-in far enough. There's also lots of dust and hair which I still have to clean out, and I may spend some more time on my GG.

Still 1:
http://www.3dkevlar.com/focus_bg.jpg

Still 2:
http://www.3dkevlar.com/focus_fg.jpg


As for mounting the slr lens, I may end up gluing mine as well. The screw holes on the slr mount are too inward, so drilling into the step-up ring isn't an option.

Once I've got something closer (relatively speaking) to final, I'll post more information on everything used, and how it was assembled. You'll find it almost identical to James Webb's, however. The slr lens, by the way, is a Minolta MD 50mm f1.7 that I removed from an old XG-1. My next lens will either be a f1.4 or f1.2. I think I'm losing a lot of stops with the f1.7.

And thanks for everyone's contributions here. I could not have done it without it.

Second Test
 

Footage with the slr lens glued to the mount and step-up ring. Some CC. Still not where I want it, but getting closer.

http://www.3dkevlar.com/focus_pull.mov

Also had to add an extra Hoya UV filter to the mix and stop the lens down to f1.7, and almost completely open the iris on the camera to get any workable DOF. I'm thinking a f1.2 or f1.4 will likely give me what I'm looking for.

David.

It might be worthwhile getting some 1 stop neutral filter gel sheet and cutting disks from that to put in the path between your SLR lens and GG. I find that too much light onto the GG causes flare into adjacent image, too little abd you get aggravated grain effect from groundglass texture.

If you haven't been there yet, the P+S Tecknik website has .pdf downloads of operating info for the Mini35 and Pro35. Some confirms discoveries I have encountered learning how to operate the Agus35.

Thanks for the info, Bob. I'll look into that.

Edmunds sells an iris attachment not unlike the one used one the P+S Technik. You can use this as well.

Some people may be wondering why you would need ANOTHER iris when theres one already on the 35mm lens. Well the reason the P+S Technik has one for the XL1 (and why it would be a good idea to get one for our adapter IF its for a XL1 too) is because as you stop down the iris on your 35mm lens the grain of the ground glass quickly becomes more and more visable. So rather than adjust the iris on the 35mm lens the XL1 needed a second iris AFTER the GG where when adjusted it wouldnt have any effect on the grain in the image. Thankfully for everyone else that doesnt have a XL1 this extra iris isnt needed.

-Brett Erskine

NEW lens adapter test
 

Here's another test I shot this past Sunday. Shot in Elgin, TX just outside of Austin. The actor is a buddy of mine, David Blackwell (Dazed and Confused, The Rookie). I put some music behind so it wouldn't be too boring.

Definitely could've use that iris attachment you're talking about ;)

-J

link
 

Oh yeah...the link.

http://homepage.mac.com/dvx100/iMovieTheater7.html

Brett.

Do you have any .jpg images of the "ideal" or close to ideal texture real groundglass magnified with a millimetre or inch reference in the image.

I am experimenting with rolling a bearing race across sheet glass over a thin slurry of 300 grade aluminium oxide.

The object is to drive pits into the glass instead of scratches from the normal rubbing method of dressing glass. This is a throwback to my method of making a CD-R groundglass by rolling the back of a piece of wet&dry paper and pressing the abrasive grains into the plastic.

So far it is looking promising and looks like yielding a finer texture for a given grade of abrasive. The final polish material didn't make a mark however when I tried it.

Furthur to above on rolling pits into groundglass, the initial passes appear to yield pits which are pinpoint and not stretched or scratches. This leaves a lightly opaque surface consisting of many thin tracks across clear areas of glass.

Subsequent passes to join all the tracks however seems to introduce larger pits among smaller ones.
This might be the new pit chipping out sideways into the previous one which doesn't happen with plastic.

The grade of the texture seems to come back to that of normal dressing by rubbing the groundglass.

Looks like a dead-end.

Great, James
 

Rather than take the usual approach... trying to find any faults in your adapter... (which there really aren't any to speak of)...

That just looked great. What a great look that guy has. Nice choice of shots and editing. The depth of field really adds to that type of scene - I love the shot where he 'walks into' the focal plane - starting out of focus and becoming clear as he moves forwards. The low-angle shots are particularly nice as well.

Gorgeous stuff - let me know when you get a short narrative film done... can't wait to see more.

No color correction? Wow - very nice 'raw' color on that cam.

Looks like home :) (We just drove out to Enchanted Rock on Sun.)

Nice work, James. Beautiful.

Re: link
 

<<<-- Originally posted by James Webb : Oh yeah...the link.

http://homepage.mac.com/dvx100/iMovieTheater7.html -->>>

james, is it possible for you to make another link of the very same test, but with the possibility to save the *.mov itself, not just to see it. so someone can download your work and analize it on bigger screen?

thank you

filip

Thanks guys.

Filip-
I'd be glad to post a larger file for downloading (if I can). What size? What codec?

can you post DV codec like you would use for firewire preview out?

posting a large file
 

Hey guys-

The file is 238MB in size. If I posted it on my server and gave out my website to all the members on this forum, I'd surely exceed my bandwidth (80GIG) within days. Not because of that file alone, but because I have other .mov files on there that add up to 650MB. Of course, my desire is for people to visit my site...just not so many at once ;)

Suggestions?

hello...
 

Hi everyone,

I have been lurking around this site for sometime now. I finally got around and built my static adapter. Basically, if anyone is interested, I used a 50mm 1.8 lens from my old eos, ground my glass with WAO 5, bought a DCX lens from surplus shed, slapped it together and attached to my Panasonic GS70 with a 10x close up lens and it looks cool.. I was happy at least. Anyway, i did this:

EOS LENS | GG | (DCX) | 10X | DV Camera

I think it looks ok, i need to do some more grinding on the glass, and get everything cleaned better. So, here is a small clip i made with my new adapter:

http://www.jayfor.com/mov/just_dew_it.wmv

Hope everyone likes it... My next challenge will be the acid etching, if i ever get the nerve up to try it... :)

Thanks,
Josh

The acid etching did not work well for me. I just could not get it even. Well, I did use the glass I had already ground, but I don't think that was the reason it was uneven. So, I went ahead and ground it again, with polish grade grit which smoothed out the uneveness. Still not happy with the end result, by now it is too frosted and I need to start over with a new glass.

Check here for the grain-free 35mm GG for $30:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...5&pagenumber=4

Alex,
What I understand from reading the thread is that particular GG is unacceptable because of markings.

John, that is correct.

That particular focus screen line is also the only static one I know of without any grain.

All we have to do is figure which screen type is microlens-based but *without any markings*.

I'm not a Minolta user, unfortunately.

My email to minoltausa.com is 4 days old without any response so far.

Does anyone in this group know the answer?

James, Amazing
 

James the footage looks great!!! I have been away from all things Adapterlike for the DVX and came back to find this!!!

Great video.

Can you provide a detailed breakdown on your build, or can I pay you to make a setup for my DVX100.

Thanx
taylor@moorefilms.com

to James Webb
 

<<<-- Originally posted by James Webb : Thanks guys.

Filip-
I'd be glad to post a larger file for downloading (if I can). What size? What codec? -->>>
============================================

just any type/format/codec. i can find solution to transcode it. i do not care about that. what i (and maybe others) need is:

a) possibility do DOWNLOAD your work (i do not have pro version of quicktime player, so i can't download *.mov files)

b) to have bigger frame size (say, half pal minimum)
c) reasonable compresssion - to have possibility to see how your GG works etc.
d) some uncompessed freeze frames!!!


thanks

filip

Re: Minolta.

You may find US representatives of Japanese and other overseas companies less helpful than the people in Japan because they are effectively resellers and such enquiries are financially unproductive for them. You likely won't get a reply unless it seems you will buy.

When I have enquired to source in Japan, on all occasions so far (Ohara Glass and Fujinon) I have found the people genuinely helpful and offering comprehensive information. Be mindful of common courtesy and good manners when you make your enquiry and keep the English concise and uncomplicated.

In your closing sentence, say who you are and a bit about yourself.

The material for the screens may be something Minolta buys in or has made by subcontractors. They may be able to direct you to the source.

images posted
 

All-
I exported some full-frames from my lastest test using .jpg compression.
http://homepage.mac.com/dvx100/PhotoAlbum8.html

Taylor-
You can see my adapter here.
http://homepage.mac.com/dvx100/PhotoAlbum2.html
I made mine to work with my lens (Konica). I'm not sure how successful I'd be with another type lens :)

Thanks guys.

reflexite ground glass
 

Hello all -

I just spoke to the folks at Reflexite Optics - the makers of Beattie viewing screens.

http://www.intenscreen.com/about.htm

They'll custom make an unetched focus screen to our specs for a minimum order of 50 pieces.

Anybody interested? Would 52mm (for a 55mm filter ring) work for most of us?

- Damion

James, great looking video and stills. Nice shots of your actor, great location and cool music. The images look nice and sharp except around the edges where they blur out. This is partly because of your diopters as you've already established, but I suspect it might be aggravated by your "condensor" lens not being the optimal piece of glass.

Nick, I just got my internet connected again and was finally able to watch your MP4. Looks good. There is some barrel distortion in the images (noticable in the shot by the 105mm) that is most likely because of the DVX100A itself, on account of how close you are focussing to the GG. Probably the only way to fix that would be to move your GG further away from your DVX but that would require another diopter. What zoom number did you say you were at? Your condensor also needs working out, I think. I wonder if a larger diameter condensor would help with the edge blurring.

Beattie screens
 

Damion, I've been following the thread where that's discussed, but I'm wondering if anyone has tested the Beattie screens yet to see how well they work out. They seem like they'd have good potential, but they might possibly show fresnel rings in the image if you look at how they are made. Have you seen any samples?

Joel-
I believe you're correct. Getting a real PCX is still on my list of changes to be made. But I've also just accepted that some blurring is part of "the look" of this adapter ;)

Thanks dude!

Joel,

My condenser definately has issues that need to be worked out. I was thinking the same thing about the condenser being a larger diameter. My filter rings are 55mm while the diameter of my condenser is only 50mm, so I had to mount it in there as best as I could. I'm thinking about picking up something a little larger so that the outer edges of the condenser are past the edges of my ground glass which hopefully may help that edge blurring.

Right now with my ground glass immediately after the +3.5 diopter I'm at Z69 and MF00, and that just about makes it to fill a 35mm still frame. I have a feeling I'm gonna need to pick up another diopter, I'm just worried that putting a 55mm +10 after my 72mm +3.5 might produce some kind of unwanted effect.

Damion - I'd be interested in trying out one of those Beattie viewing screens. Do you have any idea on how much it would cost for that kind of order? Has anyone used any still cameras with these focusing screens before?

Damion, if the screen does not show any grain (how to verify it?) then I'm in.

beattie screens
 

I've checked out Beattie screens. Stock models are all square/rectangular so I haven't tested one, though I suppose simply cutting one down is an option, albeit a risky one - and if successful would obviate the custom route. I imagine that their function in a camera viewing system is identical to what we need, no? Holding one up to the light certainly shows it to be a great deal brighter and cleaner than any ground glass I've been able to produce.

beattie screens
 

I guess the easiest test would simply be to sandwich a large format beattie screen between the halves of the adaptor and hold it there while running some tests. The stores are closed tomorrow - I'll try it Sunday and let you know -

- Damion

What a night
 

I just got through my first night of grinding/acid etching. What a pain. Here are my results:

I started out by acid etching some spare uv filters using the sandwich technique I was curious about. It didn't work as I had thought. The cream is so thick that it's almost impossible to sandwich the glass without getting air bubbles between the two pieces. Air bubbles are no good, for obvious reasons.

Next I tried putting a big glob of the stuff onto a piece of flat plastic, evening it out as much as I could, and then I laid the glass down on top of it... still no good: air bubbles, and some strange pattern that I couldn't account for.

I was running out of spare glass, so it was coming down to the moment of truth... to take the dive and actually attempt to acid etch my condenser's flat side. Despite the three or so other failures I decided what the hell. My condenser is a 72mm macro +10 that I bought on eBay for 20 bucks, so I figured I could just get another. The glass is set pretty far down into the ring so I needed a lot of the stuff and I was starting to run low. I poured almost the rest of the container onto the glass and just began using James' procedure. Anyway, maybe because of how far the condenser was set and how much of it was gobbed up on top I was almost immediately able to get a very uniform spread of the stuff. I just kind of lightly wiggled the stuff around using the toothbrush and never actually touched the glass with the bristles (at times I kind of wondered if I even needed to be using the brush at all... or just let the glob sit there for a bit)...and when the first five minutes were up what I had was very very impressive. There were a few uneven patterns, but for the most part is was very diffuse, bright, and to my eye totally grainless. I decided to go onto step two since I figured this is where you even out any area's that still aren't quite right... big mistake... it was all downhill from there. I don't know if the glass wasn't totally dry in areas (obviously that would dilute the acid in spots and theoretically cause those areas not to be etched as much) or if the second time, since I had less of the acid left, I ended up kind of scrubbing the glass with the bristles of the brush... regardless, after the second five minutes were up what I had looked way way worse. I finished up the procedure as James explains, but it never really got a lot better.

I cleaned everything up, plopped down on the couch and started grinding with a pieces of optical tissue and some 600mesh diamond compound. Within about 20 minutes it started to even out, but of course the 600grit started to give it a visible grain. I'll probably keep working on it with the diamond compound until it's perfectly even, and then I'll move on to a smaller grit... I have a 1200grit and a 3000grit diamond compound that I can use next.

Anyway, I don't want to discourage anyone else from trying the acid etching... we definitely need more people experimenting with it. I certainly have some ideas on what to do (or rather not to do) next time I try the acid. I will say that the hardest part for me was working with those damn gloves. I mean, I'll admit, the acid did kind of freak me out and so I was trying to be extra careful... but I was a total klutz with those gloves... it definitely slowed me down... which probably caused me to rush in other areas of the process where I shouldn't.


John