Spencer. Thanks for taking the time and trouble of grabbing the frames and posting them. Looks like you have the corner problems solved. If you find a 58mm mount 10x with wider glass I'd be interested to know the details. Regards.

UK users looking for 35mm Adapter parts...
 

In my search for finding UK suppliers of optical parts I came across this great company, http://www.knightoptical.co.uk

Although they don't sell holographic diffusers, they do sell Acrylic focus screens which appear to have favourable properties for this kind of project, an extract from their web page reads...

"These Plastic Screens have still greater diffusion than ground glass types, allowing an image to be back-projected on a large screen without `hot spot’

They also sell a large range of various prisms and optical mirrors, although I can't seem to find Roof PentaPrisms on their list...?

Spencer... where did you find your Samigon +10 adapter... I just bought a century optics +7 which still can't zoom the black edges out of the frame (even with a widescreen cropped image.)

Also why do you use a frensel lens... what does this do for you?

The Samigon +10 was found at a local camera store called "Campus Camera" at Kent State in North Eastern, Ohio. Their phone number is (330) 678-1297 if you wish to get the same one. (I don't know how they deal with shipping of orders though) Devin, on the other hand, is trying to find if a +10 with a larger glass will reduce the distortion without having to bring his camera closer to the GG like I did. He ordered a +10 with full glass, no large black ring like mine has, on ebay a few days ago; they seem to be quite common for the 58mm thread.

People seem to be quite skeptical about the fresnel for some reason, I'm not quite sure who instated that, but I think it's a necessary step in the adapter. We've found that the distance that it is positioned away from the GG is not all that crucial, just go with what works. It helps to increase the overall brightness, or more evenness of brightness in the edges of the projection on the spinning CD, which allows you to have to zoom less in order to get passed vignetting.

And yes, it's a personal "credit card" magnifier that you can find just about anywhere, I got mine from Office Max for $1.99 or so.

Spencer Houck

every test i do with the fresnel steps down a notch of light....

can someone link me to a +7 or +10 macro lense on ebay? i dont know wat to search for

Danny,

On Ebay, try searching for "+10 macro filter" or...
Go to B & H Photo ( bhphotovideo.com ) and search for "NL10" for B+W +10 macro lenses of different diameters.
Search with NL1, NL2, and NL4 for +1, +2, and +4 power filters.

Isaiah

hey thanks. if i get a +1 +2 +4 macro filter set, could i stack them together to make a +7? and how do i know how many mm to choose? i have a gl1

Danny. Addition to note below. I did not remember you were using a GL1 and not a PD150 so comments below may be invalid.

Danny. If you look at some of the .jpg stuff I have posted here, most was shot with stack of 58mm Hoya lenses 1x + 2x + 4x. These are fairly commonly available through camera shops as a set of three in a little wallet.

For a larger than 35mm still camera frame you should be okay with a bit of darkening on the corners. For the smaller motion picture 35mm or 35mm widescreen gate you may not be able to zoom close enough to cleanly frame it.

In my posted images there are some rough and ready captioned images of test patterns for the Hoyas and a telescope eyepiece lens set. Image file "---- testpnew0+5.JPG ----" demonstrates with a testpattern, the Hoyas stacked through the AGUS35 with rotating groundglass in hostile lighting conditions layered under the image direct into the PD150.

Bob you are getting too much vigneting, are you zooming in ? you could try to close up more the GG to the dv camera to solve this.

Agus. Yes. The issue is when I zoom in closer, the focus collapses. Same goes for moving the cam closer. It seems the 10x lens as wide a diameter we can get inside the 58mm mount is what is needed for the PD150 version.

The telescope eyepiece frames a much smaller target and ceases to vignette when the image target is about 16mm diagonal across 4:3 frame corners. It will enable focus to hold on a widescreen frame 27mm across corners if the image plane is brought closer to the camera than my current adaptor allows (about 52mm from front of camera). This also does not have wide enough lenses but will zoom through to clearance about half the way through

I am currently trying to find connectors that I can attach to my adapter which alow me to 'plug' in my 50mm lens, and at the other end 'plug' in my GL2. Any ideas please?

Hey Spencer, you and I live very close to each other I'd imagine. I would be very, very interested in getting in contact with you about some things and ideas. It's suprising and refreshing all in one to find a local, AND knowledgable/good videographer around here.

I'll probably get an email out to you too, in case you see that first.

Also, I havn't been able to read through all of this thread yet.. but has anyone completed an adapter for the XL-1s? Would anyone be willing to make one to sell?

Hey everyone, I just got my +10 macro in, it should compleate my XL-1 adapter. I built it about 3 weeks ago base on a project box. I'm working on a system to attach it to the XL-1 then I'll post pics and footage.

Hey shout out to all the other Ohio guys I'm based out of Medina, let me know if a get together is planned.

Luke

Agus35 for XL1s
 

Yes Kevin I am currently working on a Canon version, a design somewhat different that those being done right now-I'm surprised no one has shown something closer to what I'm developing-it seems obvious to me. I've just did a test last night that was stunning in optical quality-possibly far better what what's being show now. Because of the body design an Agus35 adapter fits like a hand in glove. I have to wait on a few more pieces but hope to be finished by another 10-12 days or so before I finish with this prototype. I am trying to develop one that would not cost thousands but maybe sub 1k. stay tuned...

I think we should definately get a lil ohio get together going and try out these 35 adapters.. or discuss, attempt new things/etc... I think it'd be fun if we all got together and made something.

Luke I'm especially interested in getting together sometime and trying out things for the XL.

Dino, please keep us updated.

Luke, you should fill out your location in your profile.

sound problem with agus 35
 

i just finished my "third generation" (1st - cake box 50psc; 2nd-cakeCDbox 25pcs;3rd-plywood type) agus 35, and still hace sound problems. i'm using original CD motor, which works very quiet when in horisontal position, but works loudly in vertical position. maybe plywood box produces also some resonance, but i'm not sure. did you expirienced such a problem? if yes - maybe some ideas how to resolve it.

thanks,

filip

Filip,

I have currently ran into the same problem. I retightened everything and that helped a little bit, but not much. I am running my CD motor off of 2 AAA batteries and am wondering if the lack of voltage is making the CD wobble or something? Right now that is the only thing I can think of, just don't know if that is it. If you fix it let us know. I may be able to work more on it this weekend. If I fix, I'll let you know...good luck

Clay

I'm no electricity expert, but I believe a lot of people are misguided in their battery talk. Regardless of your use of 2 AAs or 2 AAAs the voltage used will be the same. The only thing you are changing is the capacity of power they hold.

Also, in reply to the Ohioan get together, I'm now back down in Athens, OH at Ohio University. I was home in Akron over break.

Spencer Houck

So, 2 AAA's will put out the same power as 2 AA's? If that's the case then I have some other noise issue! Back to the drawing board...

2 AAA's will work just as well but the batteries will die faster.

Look to see what the milli amp hour rating (mAh) is (if it lists it) to determine the difference betwee the AA and AAA.

Cheers,
Brian

I have been wondering what stops the camcorder makers to make their lens work the same way as film lens?

If I'm not mistaken a digital camera has the same DOF as film cameras. Can't Sony just use their digital camera parts on the video camcorder?

Noisy motor. resting flat, any out-of-balance on the CD will cause the shaft to maintain contact with the bearing(s). The weight of the whole CD and armature presents an end load which also keeps things tight.

Upright - the out-of-balance on the CD might just be enough to lift the shaft off contact with the bearing and drop it back = rattle, or you will get end-float = rattle or in more extreme examples little shifts off the focal plane.

Two cures you can try :-

1. Lube the front bearing. You should use the special oil made for oilite or sintered bronze bearings. Anything else will destroy their ability to wick up oil and stay damp and thus lubricated.

2. Restore the pressure plate from the CD player to the hub. This should fix any end-float noise.

Otherwise, you will have to blimp the CD enclosure and possibly have to isolate the motor from the structure onto a rubber mount.

Ok. So after 700+ posts, I had to try this.

Stuff:

GL2 - from Zotz (plug)
Macro from a Digital Optics W/A adapter ($60 cheapie from Ebay)
GG is you guessed it - Maxell disk - $9
lens is Pentax 1:2 50mm from ABCPawn - $35
Vise grips - had those
Motor from my son's CD player - don't tell him. He needed a new one anyway. $10
Sun flowers from somewhere.

Output was only flipped in AE. No other correction done.
Compressed to 320x160 Sorenson 3.

Here is the setup:

http://www.arcsand.com/side.jpg
http://www.arcsand.com/front.jpg
http://www.arcsand.com/bacl.jpg


Here is the video (11meg file):

http://www.arcsand.com/agus35.mov

I can set out a smaller file if anyone wants.

I pulled the zoom back from the camera in the first part of the video for fun. I am impressed with the results. I get some flicker from what appears to be the spin freq of the disc. A little vignetting, but not much.

Whatever case I build, I will make sure the both the lens and GG are movable in relation to the camera since it was tricky to get those settings right.

Very cool, Agus.

Tom

Hey Tom,
Test looks very good.

Just to let you know your video (as it appears to me) has the last 2/3 of the video to be black.

That should cut down on your file size:)

Great job on the Agus test.

Thanks. Just cut down. Didn't do much for file size - now 10 meg.

I am re-rendering small version and will post shortly.

Tom

BTW - that was 320x240 not 320x160.

http://www.arcsand.com/agus35.mov linked.
is your macro a +10? and jim should post plans on building the project box for the gl1

and tom, the first few seconds of the video, is it without the macro lense?

Smaller version 2meg.

http://www.arcsand.com/agus35_sml.mov

Tom

I had the macro on for the first portion. I the zoom was in and I hadn't aligned the gg and lens yet.

Macro is similar to what is on this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2977800904&category=29964

I just unscrewed the macro from the w/a. Mine is a little different .45x but same Japan co. It doesn't state the x on the macro.

Tom

Also

Back image is at

http://www.arcsand.com/back.jpg

my bad.

Tom

what stops the camcorder makers ?
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Louis Feng : I have been wondering what stops the camcorder makers to make their lens work the same way as film lens?

If I'm not mistaken a digital camera has the same DOF as film cameras. Can't Sony just use their digital camera parts on the video camcorder? -->>>

the problem is in CCD size. since film frame is aprox. 2,5x bigger than electronic 2/3" professional CCD. so, the DOF is different when the size of CCD is different. all broadcast optics is constructed and work usualy for 2/3" lenses - (read: lenses with mount prepared for 2/3" CCD).

WHEN they construct CCD for whole cameras as big as film frame - the problem will dissapear. of course, none of video equipment producers will just throw their development and research dep. just because we need DOF same as in film. the problem is of course also with the lenses. whey you change your CCD size, you must change the construction of your lenses, so at least 3 major companies will sell then their lenses VERY cheap :)

BUT i.e. arriflex - the maker of most popular 35mm film cameras is working on it. the camera (prototype) is working on proper CCD size - similar to film frame size (bit bigger). and they WILL achieve the same DOF as in film. the arriflex is using normal film lenses.

just a small addition from me.

filip

For Australian visitors to this site here follows a list of some Iplex parts which are worth a look in the event of a 3.5” (95mm) glass disk becoming available for groundglassing. It might be feasable in any event to mount a CD disk on a mandrel and part it down to 95mm OD in a lathe.

Two compact versions of the non-inverting Agus35 could be made. This would include abandoning the
lens tube aligner and returning to the original and simpler method of face-mounting the 35mm lens to the front of the case.

For 7x macro stack or possibly 10x macro if and when it can be sourced :-

Iplex UPVC DWV, DO7210065, 123.100.65, 100X65mm Offset Reducer. for maincase and PD150 mount.

Any plastic pipe that fits the 65mm end of reducer.

Iplex UPVC 65mm DWV, D105.65, 65mm pipe cap. With careful holesawing and filing and face thicknessing, this could be made into a bayonet style mount straight to the PD150. A support stay or rods would need to be added. The lens set
mounts to the 58mm filter thread and clears the inside of the 65mm pipe and cap.

For modified telescope eyepiece lens set adaptor:-

Iplex UPVC DWV, DO7210050, 123.100.50 100X50mm Offset Reducer. for maincase and adaptor which is
to be machined for a snug fit into reducer. Adaptor which carries the lens set, itself screws into 58mm filter thread of PD150.

For both:-

Iplex DIO5100 DWY, 137.100, 100mm UPVC Cap. for front cover, motor mount attachments, lens face mount which can be made integral with the cap with careful holesawing, filing and face thicknessing for Nikon style lenses. For heavy telephotos, a metal mount would be needed. Although the caps are quite thick and firm, possibly a full span metal re-inforcement to prevent downwards sagging would be needed.

Depending upon the type of motor available, a clearance hole might need to be holesawn into the 100mm cap and a smaller cap glued in place over it. The motor and disk in these versions face towards the PD150.

Two 1.5v pen-cell batteries will just fit separately either side of the motor at an angle from the bottom.

Depending upon whether the 3.5” 95mm disks can be had with a smaller centre hole or not, the disk
centre may have to be offset downwards for the hub to clear the image frame.

None of these versions will be ideal for the standard 35mm still camera gate, only the motion picture 35mm widescreen gate, as the smaller disk outer diameter and wider outer edge of the centre hub will confine the image.

I have enquiries pending with Ohara in Japan and Showadenko in Singapore for clear glass substrate
disks.

Ohara cannot supply CD size glass disks in 1mm glass from existing stock. They may be able to supply 3.5” disks with smaller than standard centres.

Why am I chasing glass versus CD disks? My tests so far hint at a superior image with glass. Some
dense bright colours in strong light seemed to bleed together when the spinning CD disk was used. The fixed glass seemed to reproduce the colours a little better. It also may be possible to coat the clear side of the groundglass to reduce internal reflection and scatter from strong pinpoints on the groundglass image.

Wow. Thanks for all your footwork, Bob.

I'm about 1/2 done my latest (third) Agus35 design for my GL1, and by now I'm becoming very exacting with how I dismember and slice CD spindles :) Also, I think I could swim for a good bit in the sea of CDR's I've got here...

You can be sure that when I have it done I will be posting comprehensive pics and a little commentary on a website set up for these endeavors. I have plenty of server space and bandwidth for such a project.

...

Someone recently hit on an idea that I discovered myself -- getting proper flange focal length (the distance from the rear of your film lens and the spinning CD) is very difficult to get, more difficult still to maintain with both surfaces parallel to eachother.

The suggestion that you can keep either the GG or the lens moving is a good idea, and I'm currently working on perfecting the latter...I've purchased a 2" molded aluminum hub from Home Depot that my lens will be affixed to, and with a system of 1/4" screws, metal plates and wingnuts, I plan on rigging it to be adjustable.

However, for those of you trying to put together one of these adapters, what has been your experience? Thinking it over now, I suspect it might be easiest to place the CD motor on some sort of telescoping platform...

- jim

Jim,

I had the same thought. I started looked at breaking apart some Home Depot door hinges and using those to construct a sliding platform along two metal rods extending from the base. If I get lucky, a common rod will be the same size as the hinge post.

Tom

My inclination would to mount the spindle motor on a piece of lexan or any thin stiff stuff, drilled with three holes 120 degree spacing. If making a noise reduction or balance mount, a large holesaw hole through the lexan would suffice to provide the clearance.

Where baseplate to case screws go through, place them as far out from centre as you can go. This will facilitate less tricky adjustment.

Put small compression springs between the lexan and case and use these screws in combination to adjust for objective (SLR Lens) to groundglass back focus and parallelism. Instead of springs you might get away with rubber electrical grommets though these will slump with time. You could also use a huge diameter thin wire spring in the centre around the motor but this would tend to dish the case outwards and the lexan inwards, not good if your nicely black-finished plastic Agus35 is out in the heat.

Hex head (Allen) screws would look cool. When the adjustments are done, lock the screws off with some sealastic.

Tom. It might be my imagination or misinterpretation of your image at http://www.arcsand.com/back.jpg

Are you focussing your camcorder through the centre hole in your CD into the 35mm SLR lens?

For correct relationship between 35mm SLR lens and CD disk see Agus1.jpg on www.dvinfo.net/media/hart

The image can fall anywhere around the CD groundglass zone you want it to as long as it is being projected by the 35mm SLR lens onto it. Your camcorder then aquires this projected image.

If I am getting it wrong please accept my apology and ignore my coments at will.

No. I am projecting onto the cd as described in the discussion. I used the vise-grip platform to extend the motor up and out and the image is projected on the middle to bottom right of the cd.

Must be a weird angle from my still cam. Look at the image from the front. The motor spindle occupies the hole in the cd.

Tom

For those who have lots of CDs now...

I discovered that the fake CDs I had were very poorly made compared to the real CDs (out of balance, wobbly, etc) and decided to try a real cd. I just sanded the label side and it works great and is nearly perfect!