Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Just wait until you're editing the film before getting deeply involved in the music, Things can change before then.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay, but I thought that this would also help get more people on board, and investors too, if I had everything planned out, down to the music as well.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Investors aren't interested in the music, they want to know who's acting in the film, not the composer.

Getting a cast is more important, not the music.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Sure, I can do that, and not concentrate on the music much for now. But the composer told me he would prefer demo tracks actually, to get a better idea of what I want, unless the ones I could think of before, are too different from each other

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

I have a question about the choice of synthesizer as well. For some of the soundtrack I figure a synthesizer will be cheaper to save on budget, but also because there are some synth sounds I want.

But the composer wants to use samples of real instruments for everything though, and he thinks that synthesizers are thing of the past, when no one could get samples. Does he have a point, and they are dated?

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay thanks. I don't necessarily want the synth sounds to sound 80s, but maybe more modern instead. But maybe since there are samples of every instrument now, maybe the synth is pointless for a lot of type of sounds now?

Oh I also decided not to go with the harmonica based on the advice posted here before. Thanks.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

I wouldn't say any instrument goes out of date, it's how you use them that matters. Certainly there were a lot of synth bands during the 1980s and some films such as "Blade Runner" and "Midnight Express" used electronic music at that time.

However, films continue to use electronic music.

https://plus.pointblankmusicschool.c...c-film-scores/

https://www.factmag.com/2017/10/20/h...049-interview/

It's really comes down to how appropriate electronic music or any instrumentation is for your film,

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

I get so exasperated, in my band the keyboard player uses a Kong M1. It’s old and has a few great sounds but also has lots of awful ones. He has a working spare and one for parts. He is computer phobic. I on the other hand have a big pile of old keyboards and ALL are now in my computer system. I used to have a big patch pay where I could connect the synths and samplers. My new studio does not need a patch bay as everything I want is in the machine! Ryan. You are now dictating which synths your music ‘expert’ uses? Would you go into hospital for a procedure and tell the surgeon the make and model of his equipment. You can point him to the type of stitches you’d like, or tell him you don’t mind a big scar, and make sure he knows it is your right arm that has to come off, but you don’t tell him how to choose his tool!

Sometimes Ryan your micromanagement gets way out of control. Do you really want potential collaborators to have this impression of you? PS you never choose a musical instrument on cost, only on sound. The only hardware synth in my studio is a Kong Triton because there are two sounds in it I like and I have not got these available in software. Roland and Kong have excellent software and if you don’t need the knobs and keys there is no reason to find a synth.

It is like buying a 90s three machine edit suite because you want to mix in an edit recorded on digibeta, but have one working playback machine for the archive footage. You’d digitise the material and edit in you computer. It does it quicker and better. Same with old synths. Manually turn that knob at 1:32 every time or use software and let the DAW turn the knob for you?

Leave musical choices to musicians for goodness sake.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay. Yes the synthesizer I am talking about is all on a computer, there are no manual knobs I don't think, the way he has it set up. It's all knobs on a computer.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

There is synthesis and there is sampling - then each can be treated to make the real different and the unreal different too - it makes NO difference. Clearly, you pick a sound. I mentioned before, on my cubase system with the Kontakt installation, I select something like flute as a main heading and up come hundreds of flute sounds - some will be orchestral flute sounds and be indistinguishable from something I could put a microphone on, or they might be whispy, layered, evolving synthesised flute sounds? Who cares - you go through 200 flute sounds and pick the most appropriate one - why does it matter how it was constructed? My most realistic piano sound is synthesised and sounds more real than the sampled ones I also have. Your composer has real instruments in mind when it sounds like you have artificial sounds in mind. Music seems something you can't do yourself, or even communicate properly - so satisfy yourself with giving your composer a steer, then letting him get on with it, and you say yes or no.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay. Sure I can do that. Actually when it comes to flutes, since I wanted a flute like this at 1:15 into this example:


The flute has a lot overblowing I guess you could call it. But is it possible to fake overblowing with a synthesizer, and no real samples of any? My composer is not sure so far, as he hasn't tried it with a synthesizer but is possible?

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

I have about 30 of those before editing them. Some are synthesised some are samples, but I still think you and your composer simply do not have any experience of 'playing' these things.

If you have, for example, a sample library for PLAYING, not SOUND EFFECTS, then you get the option in some packages of controlling the sound from just about sounding - through flutters and stutters, to a continuous note, then that note can be a round robin - as in it plays as long as you hold the Bb or whatever key down. Or it will be a single recorded sample that gets pitch shifted or time shifted, or it will be all these things, presented in a playable manner. Some packages just require you to play with different velocities, others require you to also control expression, modulation and volume - AND - play at the same time, or do it in layers. You keep talking like a sample of a gun going off bang. This NOT what musical sampling is. You do not need to know how to record them, you need to learn how to play them.

Your breathy flute should give your composer 30 seconds worth of thinking, then probably half an hour of trying and auditioning sounds. This is how it is done. As I'm saying till I am blue in the face, it does not matter whatsoever if the generation of the sound is synthesised or sampled - totally irrelevant. You pick the sound by auditioning to get a short list, then you add the effects and treatment. Even more possible with that sound is to borrow a damn flute and record it. No music skill required - it's monophonic, so a bad musician could generate a great sound by total luck. You are making a huge mountain where the ground is flat.

Frankly, your composer sounds like he is totally at sea too. The prospects are not good if this is causing such grief at the planning stage. If the pair of you really are so green in the music technology stakes, send me the damn track when he's recorded without the flute and I will play it for you, free of charge - just give me a credit for flute - Paul Johnson, I've never had a credit for flute before!

Honestly Ryan, this is so, so simple - it really is. It's an overblow chatter with reverb. The kind of thing beginner flautists do accidentally, when trying to play very quietly.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay, well I can just try to get a bass flute or similar sounding flute from somewhere and do that. But would it match the rest of the flute we use then that is suppose to be played well, or will it sound like it is coming from two completely different sources in the sound then? Will it be able to blend with the good flute playing in the samples?

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Since you're so fond of those movies you should forget the synth and flute. What you need is an organ and a good BANJO!


Ryan you're ridiculous but that's why we love you.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay, thanks.

Well the banjo is actually my least favorite instrument ever probably and cannot see myself using it. The organ maybe, but not sure if it is the best for this particular project. But maybe.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

You bring too many limitations.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh really? Was the list of instruments I posted before, not enough and we should have more?

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

I was going to post Deliverance but I didn't think he'd get it.

No Ryan the point is any instrument will work if it fits. You seem to assign an intrinsic value to a particular instrument depending if it was used in a scene of a movie you want to copy.

The banjo was a joke but even that instrument was used in a classic like Deliverance and probably was used in many other movies that don't come to mind. You're so limited in your ideas.

You hire a composer and then you micro manage and try to take over like you know better than someone who specializes in that field despite that you have no background in it. Just like the gun shot we told you not do it yourself but you thought for some reason you could do better.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay, but shoudn't the producer and director have some say over the music that is being done, and the sounds that are being used in it?

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Ryan, I really dont know how to explain this more simply. Forget the bass flute, just find a flute sound from the sounds any good music technologist has, and play a low note. That fluttery, windy sound you want is a construct, it’s treated to sound like that, in real life a flautist playing that would need assistance from effects. Seriously, if you want that sound it’s in countless collections, synths, samplers and even in my guitar synth! It’s a cliche sound, and so, so easy to find - I cannot understand why it’s causing you any problems finding it., but you are STILL thinking about a single sample, and we do not do single samples any more. We have moved on to sets of sounds. For goodness sake watch some of the spitfire videos I suggested, then you will understand how it works. At the moment, you are not thinking like a musician, but are thinking about sound effects. They are not the same thing remotely. If you want that Clint Eastwood flute sound, easy to do.

If this is causing you, and more importantly, your composer, problems, something is wrong, because he should be laughing this off because if the simplest of things is beyond him, you have far worse problems to come.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

I haven't been following this thread closely but I wouldn't be surprised he doesn't want to spend the money on sound library or whatever is needed. Couple that with how all his ideas come from copying other movies. Same thing happened when he was trying to copy a scene which we determined used a dolly but then he didn't have the money or skill and wanted to do it with a hand held gimbal. Everything he does is for the wrong reason and involves re creating elements he saw in another movie. Last time it was a gun shot sound effect, this time it's a flute.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Yes, but they need to to know what they're doing and also be aware they they could be wrong. John Barry had arguments with Harry Saltzman regarding a couple of the best known Bond songs.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

I think he's also working on the music for a movie he hasn't filmed yet. He should describe the movie and mood of the particular scene to the composer and then let him do his thing.

Ridiculous, ridiculous, ridiculous!

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh yeah it doesn't have to be a bass flute specifically, but I wanted a flute that is not very high sounding, so that is why I thought a bass flute might best. But if there is a better flute out there for the sounds than sure.

Also I am totally willing spend the money on a sound library or music library. That is why I made a list of intstruments I thought would be good, so I could budget what to spend on, if the composer does not have them in his repertoire.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

What about The Rockford Files series, where the lead instrument alternates between synth and harmonica? You get the best of both worlds. Although I think a bit of didgeridoo would add something priceless.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay. Well I don't know if I am digging the Didgeridoo so far. It's okay. But I think I might not to use the harmonica though. The part where I was thinking a harmonica might be good, I might switch to a cello now.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

All this is still putting the cart before the horse, you may find that all your thoughts about numerous instruments fall by the wayside when the film itself is finally edited. They do have a habit of taking on a life of their own and what they demand musically may turn out very different.to your copy and paste instrumentation.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Ryan, why does your composer not have these things? Sounds to me like he is either a pianist who composes piano music, rather than somebody who already composes movie music. The notion you are buying him his instruments is laughable. Can you imagine booking Hans Zimmer or Vangelis and discovering they want YOU to buy them their instruments. Totally ludicrous.

Even the most basic version of Cubase comes with all the sounds you’ve mentioned.

Can you imagine saying to a chef “ I want celery now, I’ve gone off rhubarb, but I might want to add some marmite?” They would walk out of the door they are just so different ingredients they would struggle to create a recipe that could be swung that far.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Well actually I think he has all the instruments so far. I was just saying I could buy one if it turns out to be something he doesn't have. But I think he has them all so far accept for the bass saxophone I believe.

And we are just doing it now, mainly because of covid, and shooting is delayed. I thought it would help me shoot the scenes even better possibly, if I have a good idea of what the music is going to be. But maybe we are just doing it because we do not have a lot else to do while waiting...

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

The music only helps if you're using some to get your thought processes going, however, the instrumentation shouldn't make much difference. I used the music I had used during the writing of the script as temp tracks, but it was the mood and tempo that mattered, not the instruments used. It was an eclectic mix that worked with the film, but the final sound track was more homogeneous in nature.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

I'm in the office, which has the cheapest version of Cubase installed on it - the Halion SE VSTi has two flutes that would fit perfectly sounding very similar to the clip you posted - it comes with the software. Buy your composer Cubase and stop worrying - and then maybe he can learn some modern music technology skills, which will have developed by the time your movie gets made?
This is what it looks like

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay thanks. Well my composer already has logic pro X, and he has a variety of instruments already on it. I just thought maybe we need more flutes to choose from buy maybe we don't... But is logic pro x, not up to task?

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

I would think Logic is fine...theyre all just DAW programs that do the same thing in slightly different ways, just like various brands of video editing software.

I know Im farting into the wind at this point, but, again, instead of wasting your time with this (and it is at this stage a complete waste of time at this point since, as others have said, youve not even finished the script), you could use this downtime to make short films on your own, starring only yourself, and experiment with the seven million cinematography/sound/editing techniques youve asked about for the last two years. Thats what someone who REALLY wanted to get better at filmmaking would do.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay. Well I have been expirementing more with the sound and editing. I usually like to leave the cinematography up to a seperate cinematographer while I direct, and thought that would be better, but I can expirement there as well.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay, maybe it's just the way I hear things, but to me, an instrument can make a huge difference in terms of feeling and tone, but that's just me.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

I think that's just you, it's how the musician plays an instrument together with the orchestration and arrangement that has the bigger impact than a particular instrument without these factors coming into play. Otherwise what you could do with instruments would be extremely limited.

Your difficulty in selecting an instrument would tend to confirm this.

You still seem to be copy and pasting. Thrillers can have many types of music, depending on their world. "The Third Man" used a zither, the composer was heard playing the instrument at a party in Vienna by the director.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay, but I thought that different instruments would evoke a different feeling though. For example, if you were to take a piece like this and replace all the brass with strings, or non-brass instruments, wouldn't that give a very different feel:


Or wouldn't a more electronic sounding track like this one, sound very different it were replaced with mostly brass?


I think it would but that's just me. But also what makes you think I have difficulty selecting instrument. I picked a lot of the instruments I like so far, so why do you say I have difficulty?

As for copying and pasting, I don't want to copy and paste but I feel I need to give the composer some examples as to what I want, and then he can make it his own from there, as long as it's not hugely different from what I am looking for.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

You seem to obsessing about selecting instruments and then asking people, who don't know much about your proposed film, what they think about this instrument or that instrument. How do we know what will work with your film? That's for you to discover, you're the director. From your limited examples it sounds like copying and pasting.

A cigar box guitar might work just as well or better, we don't know.

Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?
 

Oh okay thanks. I don't think that that guitar would work well for mine, at least not from hearing it in that playing style so far. But thanks. Well in terms if choice of instrument making a difference, in this track for example, which is also one of the example tracks, why did they choose a tuba?


If instruments don't matter so much, then why didn't they go with a double bass for example? Why did they choose a tuba specifically?