Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Yeah cause I have to change the 1.5s quite a bit, and don't like delaying people if I can help it.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

According to the manual, I gather a Tamiya Battery (7.2V) 3600 mAh lasts 8 hours in the FR-2LE

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Sounds like a nominal 12 volt sealed rechargeable gel cell (a leak proof form of lead-acid battery). At full charge they ran a bit under 14 volts open circuit. Today you see them in applications such as emergency light fixtures, alarm systems, small UPS for PCs, and FIOS terminal equipment back-up batteries. They come in a variety of form factors. They were used to power portable audio and video gear ~25 years ago, such as the Panasonic AG-456 S-VHS camcorders and video lights. I've used 6 volt versions to power Hi8 camcorders that came with 6 volt NiCds.

The nominal 12 volt batteries are available in a number sizes and shapes. A common "Power-Sonic" brand 9 amp. hr. battery is about 2"x4"x6"and weights about 5.25 pounds. It should be able to run the recorder in question 30 hours or more starting with a full charge, but is a bit heavy for present day run-and-gun use.

If considering this you will need a compatable charger for it the battery, and an appropriate fused connector cord to the recorder. Also, keep in mind that using a power source other than what is documented in the user manual may damage the gear and void any warranty. (Chargers for NiCd, Ni-MH, and Li-ion generally are not suitable or safe for this type of battery unless specifically labeled for it.)

One other caveat. The amp-hour (or ma-hr) rating of a battery is based on specific conditions including time and terminal voltage. For typical AA alkaline batteries is roughly 2 amp-hours and reflects the amount of current you can obtain over 20 hours with an end voltage of about 1 volt. This translates to about 0.1 amps from the AA. However, as the current draw is increased the available amp-hours decreases due to discharge rate effects in the battery chemistry. Matching battery size to the application is one of the design considerations.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Oh okay thanks, I think that's what the battery is. As long as it would work, and not cause any problems since I am plugging in a 12 V batter into the adapter port.

There is another thing. Some people say I should upgrade to a field recorder that has more XLR ports, so I can plug in additional lav mics as well as the boom. Is it bad that I have been using a boom mic only, without lavs?

I figure that if I can shoot a movie with just one camera to save money, than its no worse than using just one mic. But what do you think?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Cann you not yet predict our answers. I have two - one is two channel, one is four channel. I use the most appropriate one, and frankly, for me - the two channel one is in use more often. I usually use this if there are two lavs, leaving the camera mounted mic to pick up the general stuff.

Your quest to do things win the cheap means that while one camera can capture a scene, if there are multiple sound sources that all need to be captured, one mic will be totally insufficient. Can't compare sound and picture in this way. The all round capture from the camera mic is great for atmosphere, but it lacks the definition of the boom, or the lavs. Right tool for the right job.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

As the sound recordist on dramas and documentaries. lavs will be part of the standard kit, they;re also part of the radio mics kit(which are more common now than they used to be).

Shooting with one camera may not save you money in the long run, it depends on what you're shooting. You can't compare the camera requirements with the audio requirements, the logical end result is that you only need one light regardless of the production you're making.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Ryan, you are unbelievable. In post #123 above, Don said "Also, keep in mind that using a power source other than what is documented in the user manual may damage the gear and void any warranty."

In the very next post, you said, Ryan, don't you pay any attention to the information and advice we're giving you? If you continue to act as if we're wrong, why do you keep asking us more questions? Aside from being rude, it's a waste of time and energy.

Oh, okay. It is a *nonimal* 12 volt battery. It is *called* 12 volts. That does *not* mean it will always provide exactly 12.0 volts. (Similarly, a "two by four" is not really 2" x 4", and a "half inch pipe" is not really 0.50" diameter.) "12V" is just a rough average of the range of voltage it will produce at various times. Depending on the state of charge, it may actually be as high as 14.4 volts (my "12V" car battery is between 14.8v and 15.0v when the engine is running), or as low as 10 or less (actually it can run down to zero volts if you leave a load connected long enough). We can *not* guarantee that this battery won't cause some problems with the recorder. If the recorder was designed to use a "12V battery" the manual would say so. But the manual does *not* say that.

Here's a homework problem for you. Please tell us exactly what the manual says about power supplies.

Oh, okay. And who are "some people" who tell you all these things? I think they're just in your imagination.

Oh, okay. If you're really trying to economize, why not have just one actor play all the parts? Then you could safely get by with just one mic. And of course you'd have just one actor to pay, instead of a whole cast. With the money you save, you could probably afford to buy yourself a Big Mac.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Greg is the Youtube "Ryan Wray Show" our Ryan? If so it would make sense why these threads are impossible to understand.

My take away is that he doesn't have ANY money. He asks about what equipment to buy and talks of hiring people for a feature film, and yet he can't buy a $20 power adapter. He doesn't listen or can't comprehend any advice given to him. Whether he can help it or not it's pointless trying to answer his questions.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

The idiot in the Ryan wray YouTube videos is sadly British, and shot in England, so isn't our Ryan. At least that is one bit of good news!

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Oh okay but I measured and the multimeter says 12 volts though. I am just trying to get creative, and think outside the box. The equipment and instructions say to only use the adapter provided, but is it wrong to get creative out in the field, if you want more power, as long as the creativity does not exceed 12V? Yes the instructions say to use the adapter provided, but if I want a battery that can last longer, is thinking outside the box, completely out of the question?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

How do we know our Ryan isn't British?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

We've already told you that a so-called "12V" battery often does exceed 12 volts. What part of that did you not understand?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

I’m pretty sure he’s from Canada so that’s not him which is a relief.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

That's what he wrote in his profile. But people can write anything. He might actually be a little old lady in a wheelchair in Outer Mongolia. Or that Nigerian prince who keeps sending me email.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

I’ve been on other forums where people would create fake accounts to make mischief for their own perverse enjoyment. That’s why I’ve been suspicious. I believe this isn’t a fake account but it’s hard tell if his questions are genuine.

One thing that is evident is nothing productive is achieved in any of these threads. It’s hard to politely say that the root of his problems is some sort of mental condition. No amount of advice or knowledge that we try to share seems to be of use.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

I understand but the exact reading on the battery is 12.2. Is that bad? I am just trying to get creative to have more battery power.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

He might just be a precocious 10-year-old who read a book about film-making. He's intrigued and wants to talk about it, but is too immature to follow a logical thought process.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

How recently was that battery charged? What is the chemistry? Every battery in the world has some range of voltage, depending on chemistry and charge level.

We have already said that batteries that are called "12 volt" can go as high as 14 volts or more when fully charged. That includes your "12 volt" battery. Did you understand and believe that statement?

Or do you think we don't know what we're talking about, or that we're intentionally lying to you?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Gents, in addition to the IMDB stuff and “four in a blanket” sitcom in which hes credited, you can also search “timewine movie” and find a thread from THREE YEARS AGO on a screenwriting forum where he posts the script and asks questions. His forum writing style is immediately recognizable as “our ryan”. If its a prank then it’s a prank that’s been going on for years across multiple (appropriate) forums and has an evolving narrative arc. That would be a “worthy-of-an-episode-of-a-police-procedural” -level prank.

Have I mentioned I have too much time on my hands?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

You mean bad spelling and every paragraph begins with "Oh, okay"?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

I mean (sigh), yeah. In addition to the other little giveaways.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Even if that's true, how do we know he isn't being deliberately obtuse just to annoy people?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

So let me get this straight...three years ago he posts a script, then actually makes the movie, receiving much criticism throughout the process, consistently having the same personality, writing style, etc. the whole time, for the sake of annoying others online?

OR

He's who he is and says he is.

Which is more likely?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

It was charged about an hour before I measured it and it came out to 12.2. Well it's just I keep feeling I should think outside the box to improve my filmmaking and I was told do that as well. But every time I attempt it, I get responses, saying that's not good and don't try to bend the rules.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Josh the point is he isn’t mentally right and because of this it’s impossible to have productive conversations. This is just my assessment. It’s a moot point whether he is real.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

There are two different, related conversations here (well way more, but related to dealing with him specifically).

Some are suggesting he's a troll.

Some suggesting he's "impossible to deal with."

I don't believe the first point, and as to the second, well, I'd say just tap out, then, if it bothers you that much. Don't respond, ignore, etc. I don't think there's anyone on here to whom I've done it, but on other forums I've just put people on the ignore list. See a thread where they're the OP? Don't read it. And you won't see their responses in other threads.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Ryan, as far as the "non-battery" part of your comments ... that's getting rather philosophical and becomes a discussion about definitions and degree. "Which box," "how far outside the box," etc. I'm going to skip that part of the comments for now because IMHO that could further muddy the waters.

As far as facts about batteries ... there are a huge number of variables. For example, what is the battery chemistry (SLA, NiMH, etc.); what is the amp-hour capacity of the battery; what is the voltage and current output of the charger; what was the state of the battery's charge before you started charging it; how long was the battery connected to the charger, etc. How old is the battery; how much charge can it hold at this point in its lifetime? Those all enter into the question of "what is this battery's highest possible voltage output?"

Without knowing all (or at least many) of those answers, we can't accurately predict an answer to "highest possible voltage output." What I do know from many years' experience is the following: many types of "12 volt" batteries (including lead-acid, NiMH, NiCd) can often supply an output voltage that's significantly higher than 12 volts. Maybe if your battery is connected to an *appropriate* charger (because not all chargers are the same) for an adequate length of time, you would find that your battery also produces much more than 12 volts. (Unless your battery is old and near the end of its useful life and can no longer hold a full charge.)

Here's a good experiment for you, since you seem not to believe what we've told you. (I did this in 5th grade science class, but maybe your education wasn't so good.)
(1.) Go out right now with your meter, open the hood of your vehicle, measure the battery voltage, write it down (and whenever you log the voltage, also note the time).
(2.) Start the engine, let it idle for two or three minutes, CAREFULLY (be VERY careful of moving parts in the engine) measure the battery voltage, write it down.
(3.) Turn off the engine, wait five minutes, measure the voltage, write it down.
(4.) Turn on the headlights, wait 30 minutes, measure the voltage, write it down. Leave the lights on.
(5.) Repeat #4, writing down the voltage. Keep repeating until the voltage reaches about 10 volts.
(6.) Turn off the headlights. Start the engine again, let it idle for a few minutes, measure the battery voltage, write it down.
** You will see that your vehicle's "12 volt" battery has a wide range of output voltages. This is true of *every* battery (different batteries will have different voltage ranges, that's all).

What we told you before is that (1.) it is likely your new battery can, under some circumstances, have an output as high as 14 volts or more, and (2.) a voltage that high might possibly damage your recorder. That is simple logic, based on years of experience.

The fact that your new battery, at some given point in time, with some given amount of charge, measures 12.2 volts, does not negate the logic of that statement.

If you choose not to believe our knowledge and experience, or if you are unable to follow the logic, then feel free to hook it up and take your chances. We are trying to help you. You seem to be trying to find reasons to contradict our suggestions. It is honestly frustrating that you keep asking for help, and then disregarding it. If you don't want to take our advice, then don't ask for it.

Two questions come to mind.

(1.) (a philosophical question): Why do you keep doing this? Do you realize how frustrating it is for us to try to communicate with you?

(2.) (a practical question): What are the markings on your battery: make, model number, voltage, capacity in amp-hours, etc. With that information we can perhaps provide a more scientific answer.

Or, if you don't want to be scientific and aren't really interested in facts, then go hook up whatever you want, and be prepared for whatever consequences may arise.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Josh:

I appreciate your insight.

For whatever reason, he is obviously very difficult to deal with. I am puzzled that he ignores discussions about this, rather than commenting, explaining, whatever. For example, I stated outright that I suspect the "some people" who keep giving him bad advice don't really exist, but rather are just in his imagination; that drew absolutely no response ... no denial, no explanation, nada, zip. That lack of explanation for, or even acknowledgement of, the frustration he causes simply makes me doubt that this is all innocent on his part but rather to suspect that he's jerking us around.

As far as his alleged film making projects, I find it hard to believe that he can work with any group of people, on any project, without getting the same sort of reaction that he's provoking here.

Over the years I've taught a number of technical classes, and I've trained a fair number of employees. I think sharing knowledge is a good thing to do. Part of me feels that Ryan deserves to have his questions answered. But trying to deal with him logically is incredibly frustrating. It's hard for me to believe that any adult can be so obtuse.

Your suggestion about putting him on the ignore list may come to that. However much he may deserve answers to his questions, I (and, I suspect, many others here) deserve our sanity. I draw the line at letting Ryan infect me with his insanity. He is very close to being ignored ... if it comes to that, it'll be his loss, not mine.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Understandable. No idea why the more confrontational stuff goes unanswered but if he's anything like me perhaps he's extremely conflict/confrontation averse and will straight up not respond or leave a situation rather than get defensive (doesn't mean he is/I am RIGHT to do that but it's how I (maybe he) handle(s) a lot of situations).

And I know *I'm* not a troll. Or at least I don't think so. Maybe I have disassociative Identity Disorder. Who can say what I'm REALLY up to when I think I'm sleeping?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Maybe Ryan is really your alter ego. ;-) Although I certainly hope not for your sake.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Well after seeing him in the pig sitcom and knowing I look like Paul Simon that would be quite a feat.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

I apologize for being difficult to deal with. I truly appreciate all the advice, even if I have trouble with it, or if I feel I need to address certain variables about it. I will try to be better at it.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Ryan, thank you very much for that post. I certainly accept your apology. I apologize for the fact that I have only a limited amount of patience.

I would not be where I am today, and would not have had a lot of exceptional jobs over the years, if I hadn't been fortunate enough to have some outstanding mentors along the way. I sense that you really do want to learn some things, and I would like to help you do that. It's just frustrating that we seem to spend a lot of time going around in circles. Perhaps it's as frustrating for you as it is for me. Can we take this opportunity to try to figure out a better way for us to communicate?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Sure we can do that. Thanks. I apologize to others again. I am very greatful for the advice.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Ryan, I've heard that different people learn best in different ways. e.g. by hearing, by reading, by seeing illustrations, by doing, etc. What works best for you?

Aside from that, as I recall the recent dialog, one frustration was that some of us were giving you answers based on our experience with and knowledge of electrical circuitry. You kept disregarding our suggestions, perhaps because you were trying to "think outside the box." I believe that was frustrating for several of us, maybe including you. As Scotty used to say on Star Trek, "Ye cannae change the laws of physics" and that includes the laws of electricity. So applying a vaguely-defined philosophy like "think outside the box" does not apply in all situations.

I realize that Q&A threads here sometimes get convoluted ... I've been on both ends of that situation. Can you think of anything that would make the process work better for you?

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Yeah a lot of times I try to think outside the box, hoping there is something I missed that might work better. But maybe I should stop trying to think that way?

Not sure what would work better as far as processes go. I am still trying to figure that out myself. Thanks for bringing it up though.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Do some research on Maslow's Heirachy of Needs and Kola's learning styles. Had to study them when I was doing my teacher training.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Ryan,

I think it's a question of when "out of the box" can work, and when it can't.

Years ago I was recording a marching band outdoors. I wanted to get the mics up 20 feet or so above ground level (yet readily movable). I went to the local plumbing supply, ordered four 10-foot sticks of Aluminum pipe, got them threaded, got a threaded coupler, and made a thread adapter for the mic clips on top. The poles were light, strong, and easily managed (they were used straight vertical, not horizontal like a typical boom) by two boom operators. And they were far less expensive than any "pro sound" device I could find. At the time I thought it was "out of box" thinking, although maybe someone else had or has done the same thing. "Out of box" can work in a simple case like that.

OTOH in terms of electrical theory, unless you are a Nobel-level genius, you are not going to make batteries work in a new way that defies all present knowledge of batteries, or change electrical theory that's been accepted for over 100 years. In that case, trying to get out of the box is just beating your head against the box.

By all means don't stop thinking creatively. Just listen to the answers you get and try to understand when it's appropriate and when it won't work.

Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case.
 

Paul

(entirely off topic)

I had pretty much forgotten Maslow, although it sounds so familiar that I must have heard it at some point in my college "career." IMHO Maslow explains a lot of the socio-economic-political upheaval in the country today. But that's just IMHO.