How does this sound?
 

This is what I would consider my good or best audio recording. Can someone tell me if there is anything wrong with this. For example, does it seem flat, muffled, not clean, noise? I want to get the best audio recording I can but my ear is not trained to hear as well as others so I would appreciate any help. This audio is raw straight from my camera.

Thanks

Re: How does this sound?
 

Sounds like the mic is too far away from the speaker. There's a lot of low frequency roll off, which may be intentional, IDK. But there's a fair amount of high frequency roll off too, which effects the speaker's sibilants and makes it somewhat more difficult to discriminate (understand the words). OTOH, not much in the way of quick reflections, suggesting a fairly large room. Levels are fairly low which also may be intentional, or may just be lost in translation in all the squeezing and moving that has to be done to move the audio over the 'net.

Not a bad first effort, but you can do better. And you will. The more you do, the better you get. I wish my first efforts had been as good.

Wait until you get more opinions before you tell us anything about how you did it. See if any of us guess correctly.

Re: How does this sound?
 

From that sample it sounds Ok Kathy, a tad sibilant (ssss) but that sounds like your talent. When you become much more experienced, with the same voice try repositioning your COS-11D lav.

With your current experience you should leave it, but for practise, you could try notching it down with equalisation, narrow band at about 5Kh. but very slightly.

Be careful you don't get caught in the syndrome of trying to 'improve' audio, that's already satisfactory for your video.

Cheers.

Re: How does this sound?
 

Thank you both.
Question. So it seems like you both think the mic wasn't placed in the right spot. It was right on the second button of his shirt. Is that too low?
What does it mean "high frequency roll off" Roll off, specifically? The room was fairly large. It was recorded too low? Well it was peaking sometimes so I didn't want to record it any hotter. I was told it's better to record lower than clip it. Looking at the levels on the camera it seemed right to me, how else should i be judging audio levels?

Re: How does this sound?
 

What brand of mic was it...... cheapy or a better quality mic?

Re: How does this sound?
 

Sanken COS-11D. I think it is regarded as a better quality mic.

Re: How does this sound?
 

I am trying to figure out what else could be causing my low quality audio recordings. I am recording directly to Canon C100. I just checked audio input settings and I don't have anything anything turned on such as Mic Att. or Limiter or Mic trimming. Is there anything else I could possibly have turned on on the camera that would cause the audio to sound like that?
For comparison's sake you can hear Matt Davis' recording to the same camera, using the same mic. Third recording down
https://soundcloud.com/mdmatv

Thanks

Re: How does this sound?
 

The levels in the 'Jon.wav ' clip are OK, but it certainly does sound muffled, noisy and distant. Without actually seeing the setup it's difficult to say with the problem is. I'm not familiar with the Canon C100, but generally, digital cine cameras have very poor audio quality. Even the REDs suck, despite their 48k/24bit capability.
I would test using a high quality external preamp/ recorder to start.

Re: How does this sound?
 

Rick,
Did you listen to Matt's recording I posted? How does that sound to you?

Re: How does this sound?
 

Could it be my wireless receiver? I've noticed that there is audio output gain control on a side. Could it be causing the audio to sound distant?

Re: How does this sound?
 

The Soundcloud clip sounds.. 'OK'. Assuming I'm listening to the right one; "One hen, one C100 - Sanken COS-11 into C100 and PIX220" .. BTW, the PIX220 is a Sound Devices product with (naturally) premium audio components so I suspect that audio was not recorded on the C100.

A wireless receiver would not normally make something 'sound distant' per se, but a wireless system COULD affect the quality. (audio frequency bandwidth, ect). As could an improperly wired mic, for a specific transmitter.
BTW, what wireless system are you using?

Re: How does this sound?
 

I am using Shure SLX series.

Re: How does this sound?
 

I would try recording to a known good sounding recorder. If that exhibits the same sound characteristics, the mic, mic placement and/or wireless, wireless interface is the issue.
I have no hands-on experience with the Shure SLX series.. it's not top-shelf, but assume it should work OK. A few years ago I worked with a client's Shure PGX wireless, that sucked big time.\

As I previously stated, confirm the TA4 connector is wired correctly for the COS-11/ Shure combo.
Wiring schematics for the mic/transmitter are here. (assuming your using the SLX-1 bodypack transmitter)
SANKEN MICROPHONE CO .,LTD. | Q & A [ For SHURE ]

Re: How does this sound?
 

I bought the mic already wired for Shure SLX. I didn't wire it myself.
I just ran a bunch of tests and I am going to evaluate them soon. I did test my mic with my wireless setup to an external recorder (but I don't have a good one, I just have a little Zoom H2N). I will report back when I listen to my test recordings.

Re: How does this sound?
 

The Shure SLX is the weak link in the chain. I have an SLX kit here at work. It's so-so for live applications and inadequate for video applications, IMO.

It's been some time since I've used it. As I recall, the noise was high and it has a very poor high frequency response.

I also have the COS-11D mic, which sounds excellent. I've never put it through the SLX though.

Re: How does this sound?
 

Other than very slight artifacts from what is probably the camera's noise gate, I thought this was a workable clip. I added some eq, light compression and a music track and it sits pretty well.

Re: How does this sound?
 

While I appreciate Duane's effort, still no articulation in the dialog. Though I've heard worse in b'cast news and such.
I've never encountered or even heard of a 'noise gate' on a camera. Possibly Duane means AGC, but I don't hear that either.
Kathy, How are you getting from the receiver to the cam's audio input.. and at what op level.. XLR, 1/4" TRS; balanced; unbal?
"I bought the mic already wired for Shure SLX. I didn't wire it myself"
- That doesn't mean it's wired correctly.. sh-- happens.

Re: How does this sound?
 

Perhaps I should just forget all wireless system and get myself Sanken COS-11D with XLR connection

Re: How does this sound?
 

XLR from wireless receiver to the camera audio input. What's an op level?

Well, I wouldn't know how to check it. I have another one of these mics I can double check to see if it sounds the same.

Re: How does this sound?
 

Kathy,

I agree with most of what has already been said. Compared to Matt Davis' "one hen" test with the same mic and camera, your recording seems to be deficient in high frequency information (high frequency rolloff... think of having a treble control turned down somewhat) so the intelligibility suffers. Also your recording seems to be noisier; some of that may be room noise but some is probably from electronics.

And yes, I hear some reflections from the room. They are not objectionable, and IMHO they are not the biggest problem here. They could be reduced either by using some sound blankets to try to deaden the room, or else by micing a little closer to the speaker's mouth (which allows you to turn down the gain, thereby reducing the level of the reflections).

I think you're on the right track. If you have a second identical mic, try that, and see whether both mics sound the same.

If you then conclude that the problem is not the mic (although of course both could be bad), then try recording directly into the camera without the wireless gear, and see whether that eliminates the problem.

NO wireless system will improve the sound. The best wireless system will degrade the sound so slightly that it won't be audible; the worst wireless system will be awful. When possible, skip the wireless link.

Good luck with it!

Re: How does this sound?
 

That's probably the problem. Your mic is way better than your wireless. That mic is probably overkill for a Sennheiser ew-112p g3 wireless system, which many people consider the minimum quality level for wireless.

Not that it ever hurts to have a first class mic. That just means that the weakest link in the chain is downstream from the mic. In this case, I'm guessing it's your wireless that's preventing you from getting the sound you want.

Re: How does this sound?
 

I did run some tests with wired mic but not my Sanken because I don't have the XLR version. I will post my tests shortly. Thanks

Re: How does this sound?
 

OK. Would it be worth altering my Sanken mic so it's strictly XLR? Or what is considered THE BEST wireless system?

Re: How does this sound?
 

The hard-wired version of the mic has a Phantom Pwr. adapter and/or battery module.

The 'best' made (in the USA) film sound wireless systems are IMO Lectrosonics and Zaxcom.
digital systems... but many use the Sennheiser G2/3 budget systems which can sound extremely good when properly set up... but that applies to the Lectrosonics and Zaxcoms as well. (due diligence)
But a $20 mic cable will out-perform the most expensive wireless system. (all other factors being equal)

Would it be worth altering my Sanken mic so it's strictly XLR? Or what is considered THE BEST wireless system?
- Until you or someone diagnoses the issue, I would be hesitant of spending money.

It maybe worthwhile to make an appointment and take your gear down to Gotham Audio (in midtown) and have someone there look at it. They are honest and not out to sell you something you don't need. Same goes for Professional Sound Services. (also in midtown)

I would gladly help you out personalty, but I'm currently working a (six day week/ 12hr day) feature in the Hudson Valley region till Sept.

Re: How does this sound?
 

Thanks Rick. I will continue investigating until I get to the bottom of this.

Re: How does this sound?
 

OK. Here is another sample. Different room, different person, everything else the same.
What do you guys think?

Re: How does this sound?
 

And one more

Re: How does this sound?
 

You might pick up one of these - EMP4S: Ambient Recording GmbH - so you can try the mic hardwired.

Re: How does this sound?
 

Thanks, would this work too?
Point Source Audio CON-XLR Adapter for Wireless Mics with TA4 Connectors

Re: How does this sound?
 

Both of those sound just fine to me. Whatever you're doing, it's working.

Re: How does this sound?
 

Not familiar with that brand but it looks like it would work.

Re: How does this sound?
 

OK, so I ran some tests on Friday, trying different mics, different recorders and different connections. I think I know what my problem is now but I will let you guys listen to the samples and let me know which one sounds the best to you.
Just so you know I shoot in field and not in a studio but all of these samples were done in the same location, the same person and the same mic position.

Re: How does this sound?
 

OK this is TA4 I need TA3 :(

Re: How does this sound?
 

The Sanken website shows TA4 as the connector for Shure transmitters. Yours has only 3 pins?

Just listening on a pair of crappy laptop speakers, my serious system is down for the moment, but of the five files posted I'd say it's a toss-up between 3 and 5 for best sound.

Re: How does this sound?
 

I don't have the mic with me right now but reading the description for the wireless receiver it says it uses TA3 connection. I will confirm tomorrow.

Re: How does this sound?
 

I like number 1 myself. Seems nice and flat through the main vocal range, doesn't roll off the highs too much so it's got some "air". Not noisy. No low freq. rumble that I can hear. No objectionable (or for that matter, audible) reflections.

So... what's changing between these?

Re: How does this sound?
 

Kathy,

Sorry, I'm a bit behind the curve in terms of getting around to listening.

"Gary2" seems to have more high frequency content than the original "Jon" clip; the intelligibility seems better to me. At around 25 seconds, the peak noise level reads about -50 dBFS, compared to the loudest voice peak which is about -2.5 dBFS. The predominant noise I hear there (~25 seconds) sounds like some sort of motor or machine running in the background.

"Michael" also has more high frequency content than "Jon," perhaps even a bit more than "Gary2." The biggest difference is that "Michael" has much more room reflections than either of the other two clips. It's intelligible, but the room bounce is quite obvious, and it would especially stick out if you're inter-cutting that track with other, cleaner tracks. (As far as noise level: there is very little useful real silence in the clip; the gaps between words are filled either with breath intake, or with room reflections... it's hard to get a meaningful background noise measurement in the segment that you provided.)

I'm still wondering about exact mic placement when you recorded "Jon." I don't recall seeing an answer to my previous question, i.e. was the mic covered by any clothing, etc., or was it entirely exposed? If it was under even one layer, that might account for the HF rolloff.

"Gary2," especially, sounds reasonably usable IMHO (depending, of course, on the nature of the final project).

(P.S.: I'm listening for detail and clarity with Sennheiser HD280s, although I wouldn't want to mix on phones.)

Re: How does this sound?
 

OK, I think you are correct. I can't double check but looking at the transmitter picture it does look it's TA4.
Are there better and worse adapters? Also, are there better and worse XLR cables? I think I will have to get XLR cable because the mic cable alone won't be long enough.

Re: How does this sound?
 

Before I say what is changing in these recordings I want to see if anyone else can comment on them.

Re: How does this sound?
 

Thanks Greg. I wonder if the motor sound you are hearing is the sound my 5D makes as it records and the mic is picking it up. I am shooting with 2 cameras and the 5D is usually pretty close to the talent. Other than that I am not recalling any machine running but I am shooting in an office located in a big building.
Unfortunately, this is all in field recording. Not in a studio and I have to be realistic about room sounds etc. They will always be there, I can't start sound proofing people's offices.

The mic on Jon was placed at the hight of the second button of his shirt. Same as on Gary and Michael. It was not covered by any clothing. I have not done anything different on Jon. All of these recordings were pretty much done the same way, but in different rooms.