Can 8.0c or 8.1 Capture Canon 24f?

[Steven Reid]

I just finished a new PC build and am about to install 8.0c or 8.1. I'm running Vista Ultimate 64-bit. I just saw some recent anecdotal evidence of 8.0c being able to directly capture 24f from a Canon (I have an XH-A1), apparently without the need to capture via HDV-split.

Can anyone verify whether either version of Vegas will do this?

Thanks,
Steve

[Mike Kujbida]

Steve, I can't answer your camera question but I can suggest that you install both 8.0c and 8.1 on your new computer.
That way, you'll get the best of both builds.

[Steven Reid]

Originally Posted by Mike Kujbida

Steve, I can't answer your camera question but I can suggest that you install both 8.0c and 8.1 on your new computer.
That way, you'll get the best of both builds.

Thanks for the advice, Mike. From what I've read so far, the dual install is a wise choice.

I realize that my question asks for information that perhaps very few have acquired so far, given the recent vintage of the 8.0c and 8.1 releases. Perhaps it will be me posting back with an answer, assuming that I get my new rig and Vegas to play nicely!

Cheers,
Steve

[James Hooey]

Steve,

I shoot with the XHA1 and am delighted to say that it seems that the recent update to 8.0c has solved capture issues with 24f footage.

You probably had the same problems as myself where 8.0 a-b would spilt a 24f capture into tiny little clips. To solve this I had to use Vegas 7 for capture. Now this seems to work fine in Pro 8.0c so no more switching back and forth!!

I would also note that 8.0a-b seemed to have issues with more than approximately 30-40 24f files on a timeline. Seemed to be a memory leak as page file usage continually climbed until all available ram was used up and then....'crash'. Well, 8.0c seems to have solved that too. I did a quick test when I updated and place 188 XHA1 24f files on the timeline (captured from Vegas 7) and page file usage got to about 900MB and then stayed there.

These were the two biggest fixes I was awaiting and hope that everyone else has similar experience as it was pretty frustrating for the past year.

All the best.

[Steven Reid]

Originally Posted by James Hooey

Steve,

I shoot with the XHA1 and am delighted to say that it seems that the recent update to 8.0c has solved capture issues with 24f footage.

You probably had the same problems as myself where 8.0 a-b would spilt a 24f capture into tiny little clips. To solve this I had to use Vegas 7 for capture. Now this seems to work fine in Pro 8.0c so no more switching back and forth!!

I would also note that 8.0a-b seemed to have issues with more than approximately 30-40 24f files on a timeline. Seemed to be a memory leak as page file usage continually climbed until all available ram was used up and then....'crash'. Well, 8.0c seems to have solved that too. I did a quick test when I updated and place 188 XHA1 24f files on the timeline (captured from Vegas 7) and page file usage got to about 900MB and then stayed there.

These were the two biggest fixes I was awaiting and hope that everyone else has similar experience as it was pretty frustrating for the past year.

All the best.

Well, that's great news, James. (Actually, I'm moving up from 6.0d, new computer, and new XH-A1, so my learning curve right now is a bit steep.) If 8.1 doesn't direct capture, then my parallel installation of 8.0c will. Well, anyway, that's my planned workflow. I'm just waiting for my RAID arrays to initialize and format, and then I'll try this out for myself.

After a nerve-wracking but ultimately successful build of a 64bit system from scratch and running 64 bit Vista, I was not relishing an additional layer of frustration with Vegas. Thanks again for the heartening news.

Best,
Steve

[David Bilodeau]

I have been working on this problem for some months, where I migrated to 64-bit Vista and my HDV tape based Sony cameras are not recognized in the HDV mode on 64-bit Vista, and no capture program - Vegas 8.1, Sony PMB 3.3 with 64-bit upgrade, built-in Windows capture utilities, or others - would work.

However, I found a partial solution from an article I found on this site and I have an open support case with Sony Creative Software, another with Sony Camera Support, and most recently and most importantly a new case just last week with Microsoft 64-bit Vista support, because I believe this is a basic 1394 Firewire hardware-level compatibility problem that only Microsoft can solve with a driver hotfix for 64-bit Vista.

I had just typed a long description of the whole scenario here but apparently the forum timed out and my other reply was lost [I'm new to dvinfo.net], so I shortened the discussion for now and will just ask if anyone else can confirm that you have had a similar problem with 64-bit Vista, a tape-based camera of any make/model, and some 64-bit video editing software (Vegas or otherwise). If so I'd like to hear from you so I can show Microsoft that I'm not alone, because I am resisting any attempt of their engineers to blame my particular configuration, except at the hardware level of the PC and its built-in 'cheap-o' firewire interface with a non-TI chip set.

It doesn't seem to matter - the Texas Instruments 1394 Chipset in a Firewire card seems to be key, and the article here from 2004 indicates understanding that "all Firewire cards are not created equal". I never really gave that one much thought, and this notion is what led me to experiment further.

Right now, with the TI chipset in an add-in Firewire card I had in an old PC (stroke of luck!), I can capture video in pure 64-bit mode with Vegas 8.1 HDV capture - with full camera control...that part was never a problem, just the video signal...BUT WITHOUT VIDEO PREVIEW function - it just doesn't work in any software, and this is the angle I am taking with Microsoft about their native 1394 driver on the new support case.

I will keep you posted, and if their engineering team is able to come up with a hotfix, perhaps we can make it available to members of this site so you all can run some tests also. I expect to be able to preview video when I am capturing, so I am going to stand firm with the 2 companies (Sony and Microsoft) and hold their feet to the fire to get this problem fixed once and for all.

Have you searched the Internet for other reports of this issue? They're out there, but there's nothing on Microsoft Technet about such a thing. It's obvious that some testing was missed, and Sony Camera Support did acknowledge a gap in their HDV coverage for 64-bit operating systems, with their software. They did duplicate my problem in their lab in California, but couldn't seem to get anything else done about it, and that is where they left me a couple months ago. Same for Sony Creative Software support, but I reopened that case with the TI Chip issue notes last week also and am planning to follow through with all 3 groups to insure they all know that a solution is possible, even if a partial solution, because the 64-bit render performance is outstanding (1:1 or better, compared to 5:1 or up to 8:1 I was getting on my old 32-bit system and operating system). I see a lot of questions about this and yes, 64-bit in the entire workflow is far superior in performance.

My quad core system has some CPU to spare even when rendering high-def output, and capture is nearly flawless...except as noted, with no dropouts, which was always a challenge in a 32-bit configuration.

[Jeremiah Rickert]

I've run into this problem in a few different iterations. I'm running 64 bit Vista, and use the 32 bit version of Vegas. I have a Canon XH-A1

Capturing DV is not a problem. Capturing HDV is a problem. In some cases, I've used a FireStore to just sidestep the capturing problems, but I haven't always been able to use the FireStore.

HDVSplit works, and sometimes I even can run the preview as it's capturing. Sometimes not.

Just today, however, a friend of mine was capturing HDV onto his 64 bit Vista system and even HDVSplit wouldn't capture. It would start playing, it would say that it was capturing, but in the end, he'd have a 0 bytes file that was inaccesssible.

I took the same tape home and captured it using HDVSplit.

His computer is an HP, I don't know if they have some funky FireWire drivers or what.

Either way, this problem was already old a year ago, and the fact that they haven't come up with a solution yet is maddening.

[Edward Troxel]

Originally Posted by Jeremiah Rickert

Either way, this problem was already old a year ago, and the fact that they haven't come up with a solution yet is maddening.

I guess the biggest question is who "They" are?

Microsoft because it's an OS issue?
The computer manufacturers because it's hardware related?
The company that makes the firewire components?

WHO needs to do WHAT to solve this?

I tend to think the problem is not with Vegas or HDVSplit because both work fine in other configurations.

[Jeremiah Rickert]

Actually I was hoping you had a solution. I mean c'mon.

Just kidding.

After 20 years of having Microsoft stuff on my computers, I don't expect them to do diddly. Sony and Canon are the ones I'd expect to be able to do something about this.

[David Bilodeau]

Microsoft Research called me today (right on schedule) and in the discussion with them, I learned a couple of things.

First, the 64-bit drivers for the TI 1394 Chipset have been around since the XP 64-bit days, but drivers for other 1394 chipsets such as those in my Gateway have not come out yet for 64-bit Vista.

Next, it is the responsibility of the hardware manufacturer to provide Microsoft these drivers, either for inclusion in an operating system release, or for inclusion in Windows Update. As you know from time to time you'll see Hardware updates in Windows Update and these apply to your machine, having been provided by your machine's hardware manufacturer.

Finally, on the question of preview during capture and having trouble, the agent had me reduce the monitor's screen resolution (I sit natively at 1920 x 1200 because I have a Samsung 2693HM wide screen monitor), and when I set it to 1280 x 1024, Capture Preview worked fine with the TI 1394 Firewire. It also did work with 1920 x 1200 but it seems a little finicky. He also reminded me to go ahead and install the Samsung driver for this monitor on this new system and see if that would make the capture preview I do get a little less finicky, but he said screen res is a big thing in the codec rendering of the capture preview video.

I also got this (see below) from Sony Vegas Support today about this problem of video preview not working right on 64-bit Vegas 8.1, and I let them know about the screen res change plus the various firewire chip set driver issues that Microsoft is aware of, waiting for the HW manufacturers to create drivers. I'll be letting Gateway know what I think of all this...

"Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software. The problem with Vegas 8.1 not previewing during IEEE1394 capture is a high-priority documented issue and is being worked on to be fixed for a later release. Our developers have reproduced the issue you are seeing and are in conversation with the camcorder division to rectify this problem."

I have told Sony Creative Software to be sure and come up with a list of known Firewire interfaces for 64-bit that they have tested to work with the preview mode once they fix that issue (the whole capture session is iffy - the buttons don't work right, the camera shows offline or Preview Unavailable and it misbehaves in the software interface, and such....)