SOCAN fee at DVinfo.net

Kren Barnes · January 7th, 2010, 02:00 PM

To all my Canadian compatriots, just wondering how much is your SOCAN copyright fee? Is it annual?

Thanks,

Ken Diewert · January 7th, 2010, 11:58 PM

Kren,

I'm pretty sure the SOCAN licensing doesn't have anything to do with video producers who want to use the music in recordings. It seems to me that SOCAN fees are only for venues that play music in public.

I wish we could simply pay a fee and have access to the SOCAN library.

Kren Barnes · January 8th, 2010, 12:48 AM

Thanks Ken...I remember Bruce Patterson mentioning CMMRA as the Canadian licensing collector of music fees for wedding videos..got to check it out..

Ken Diewert · January 8th, 2010, 12:26 PM

I spoke to CMRRA just to find out, here is their reply:
_____________________________
Dear Ken,

1) We really appreciate your desire to do the right thing and license music
for DVD’s unfortunately; the cost of licensing may be beyond your means.

In order to legally include music in these DVD's, you must obtain a
license for every song you want to use. In the music business, songs are
owned by music publishers, who grant synchronization licenses on a
one-at-a-time basis. Each song is individually negotiated to take into
account the specific proposed use. You must also seeking and pay rights for
the “Master Recording” via the Record Companies if you are lifting the
music off of an artists CD. The record companies would be in a position to
grant or deny any “Master Recording”

There's no way around the fact that this type of licensing can be very
time-consuming and expensive. We receive requests similar to yours on a
frequent basis, and in most cases, those asking the questions have not
Made any provision in their financial planning for the payment of
royalties. Let us suggest you revisit your plans and consider the use of
"stock" or "library" music, rather than popular music recordings. A good
stock music house like The Music People The Music People - Home can
offer you a large amount of music at reasonable rates without the
complexity of licensing the songs and recordings individually.
_____________________________

They did say though that they are trying to work on a blanket licensing similar to what they have is Oz, and they did tell me to stay in touch. By the way a prominent slogan on the CMRRA site is "Use a Note... Go To Jail."

Matthew Craggs · January 8th, 2010, 01:41 PM

I wrote the AVLA a couple of years ago, and they said to contact that CMRAA. I contacted the CMRAA and got a response very similar. Unfortunately, Canada is still behind when it comes to reasonable music licensing for events. It's a shame.

Ken Diewert · January 8th, 2010, 01:45 PM

I have contacted the Music People that they referenced and they do have a blanket license that costs around 350.00 for use of their music per year for use in 'private' DVD productions (they're sending me the details). I haven't had a chance yet to search through their library yet to see if it's worth it.

Ken Diewert · January 8th, 2010, 02:10 PM

Check out Audio Network - Production Music Library they do have some great music and a Canadian rep who I just spoke to.

Sean Seah · January 12th, 2010, 05:44 AM

We get the same issue in Singapore and the law has been closing down on us. I have switched to royalty free songs but many ppl are still playing hide and seek with the authorities and it makes those who want to be on the right side of the law disadvantaged.

The good news is the authorities are coming up with something to allow an annual licencing fee. The question now is how much? Wedding couples in Singapore have next to no budget for licencing at the moment. IF the fees are reasonable however a lot of people would be happy to comply.

But I this while I thought that Canada had some good system. Otherwise how is Stillmotion doing it? Perhaps u like to consult Pat and his gang?

Patrick Moreau · January 12th, 2010, 11:51 PM

stay tuned. big announcement about this coming up this week. great timing of this thread - thanks guys.

P.

Chris Ficek · January 13th, 2010, 06:34 PM

Socan, AVLA and CMMRA have nothing to do with wedding video music rights except enforcement. What your after are syncronization rights, which I always thought was CMMRA but it looks like I'm mistaken. Lets wait for Patricks big news and the issue may be resolved. BTW Patrick it was a pleasure meeting you at the Cinevate party, keep up the great work.

Denny Lajeunesse · January 14th, 2010, 02:29 PM

There are Five "rights" relevant:

Public Performance Rights: Probably not needed for wedding videos, though the person showing the video at a reception would technically need them (or on youtube etc)

Synchronization Rights: The right to reproduce music in synchronization with video or filmed images.

Master Use Rights: The rights to use an existing recording of a musical composition

Adaption Rights: The rights to alter the musical composition by way of arrangement, parody, comedic use or lyric change

Mechanical Rights: The right to manufacture and distribute copies of a song which you did not write and which is not in the public domain

- Applicable to all permanent digital media, music videos distributed by DVD, ringtones, permanent downloads, computer games musical toys, etc.
- Does not include the right to display or reprint lyrics or sheet music.
-- Mechanical rights vary from country to country.

The rights most relevant to most wedding videos as far as the Videographer is concerned are the Synch, Master and technically the Mechanical rights.

Erik Andersen · January 20th, 2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Moreau

stay tuned. big announcement about this coming up this week.

Not to steal Patrick's thunder, but "With Etiquette" was launched today. According to the website, it's "a way for indepenent musicians to license their original work to photographers and cinematographers searching for crazy awesome music to make their projects sing."

With Etiquette

Seems like a superb idea, but I couldn't find any info on what the costs might be. They are probably still ironing out the details.

Tell any independent musicians you know, because we're going to need a lot more than 6 choices!

Mark Williams · January 20th, 2010, 04:40 PM

Sounds similar to soundclick.com. They have a large artist base.

Patrick Moreau · January 21st, 2010, 02:20 AM

thanks erik. all songs are $99 each.

we are super excited about this project.

P.

Sean Seah · January 25th, 2010, 06:32 AM

Nice to have another option! Just to update that our authority, RIPS (Recording Industry Performance Singapore) have started a new licencing policy that allows wedding videographers to sync, playback in ballrooms and deliver copies of wedding videos from artist under 14 recording labels.

It works by an annual fee of about USD1550 per annum and this licence does not allow uploading of works to the internet.

Royalty free songs are still the way to go eventually.

January 7th, 2010, 02:00 PM	#1
Kren Barnes Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Posts: 415	SOCAN fee To all my Canadian compatriots, just wondering how much is your SOCAN copyright fee? Is it annual? Thanks,

January 7th, 2010, 11:58 PM	#2
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Kren, I'm pretty sure the SOCAN licensing doesn't have anything to do with video producers who want to use the music in recordings. It seems to me that SOCAN fees are only for venues that play music in public. I wish we could simply pay a fee and have access to the SOCAN library. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

January 8th, 2010, 12:26 PM	#4
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	I spoke to CMRRA just to find out, here is their reply: _____________________________ Dear Ken, 1) We really appreciate your desire to do the right thing and license music for DVD’s unfortunately; the cost of licensing may be beyond your means. In order to legally include music in these DVD's, you must obtain a license for every song you want to use. In the music business, songs are owned by music publishers, who grant synchronization licenses on a one-at-a-time basis. Each song is individually negotiated to take into account the specific proposed use. You must also seeking and pay rights for the “Master Recording” via the Record Companies if you are lifting the music off of an artists CD. The record companies would be in a position to grant or deny any “Master Recording” There's no way around the fact that this type of licensing can be very time-consuming and expensive. We receive requests similar to yours on a frequent basis, and in most cases, those asking the questions have not Made any provision in their financial planning for the payment of royalties. Let us suggest you revisit your plans and consider the use of "stock" or "library" music, rather than popular music recordings. A good stock music house like The Music People The Music People - Home can offer you a large amount of music at reasonable rates without the complexity of licensing the songs and recordings individually. _____________________________ They did say though that they are trying to work on a blanket licensing similar to what they have is Oz, and they did tell me to stay in touch. By the way a prominent slogan on the CMRRA site is "Use a Note... Go To Jail." __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

January 8th, 2010, 01:45 PM	#6
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	I have contacted the Music People that they referenced and they do have a blanket license that costs around 350.00 for use of their music per year for use in 'private' DVD productions (they're sending me the details). I haven't had a chance yet to search through their library yet to see if it's worth it. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

January 8th, 2010, 02:10 PM	#7
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Check out Audio Network - Production Music Library they do have some great music and a Canadian rep who I just spoke to. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

January 8th, 2010, 12:48 AM	#3
Kren Barnes Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Posts: 415	Thanks Ken...I remember Bruce Patterson mentioning CMMRA as the Canadian licensing collector of music fees for wedding videos..got to check it out..

January 8th, 2010, 01:41 PM	#5
Matthew Craggs Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Welland, Ontario Posts: 311	I wrote the AVLA a couple of years ago, and they said to contact that CMRAA. I contacted the CMRAA and got a response very similar. Unfortunately, Canada is still behind when it comes to reasonable music licensing for events. It's a shame.

January 12th, 2010, 05:44 AM	#8
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	We get the same issue in Singapore and the law has been closing down on us. I have switched to royalty free songs but many ppl are still playing hide and seek with the authorities and it makes those who want to be on the right side of the law disadvantaged. The good news is the authorities are coming up with something to allow an annual licencing fee. The question now is how much? Wedding couples in Singapore have next to no budget for licencing at the moment. IF the fees are reasonable however a lot of people would be happy to comply. But I this while I thought that Canada had some good system. Otherwise how is Stillmotion doing it? Perhaps u like to consult Pat and his gang?

January 12th, 2010, 11:51 PM	#9
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	stay tuned. big announcement about this coming up this week. great timing of this thread - thanks guys. P. __________________ site // www.stillmotion.ca blog // www.stillmotionblog.com edu // www.stillmotionexperience.com

January 13th, 2010, 06:34 PM	#10
Chris Ficek Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 113	Socan, AVLA and CMMRA have nothing to do with wedding video music rights except enforcement. What your after are syncronization rights, which I always thought was CMMRA but it looks like I'm mistaken. Lets wait for Patricks big news and the issue may be resolved. BTW Patrick it was a pleasure meeting you at the Cinevate party, keep up the great work.

January 14th, 2010, 02:29 PM	#11
Denny Lajeunesse Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kelowna, BC [Canada, Eh!] Posts: 257	There are Five "rights" relevant: Public Performance Rights: Probably not needed for wedding videos, though the person showing the video at a reception would technically need them (or on youtube etc) Synchronization Rights: The right to reproduce music in synchronization with video or filmed images. Master Use Rights: The rights to use an existing recording of a musical composition Adaption Rights: The rights to alter the musical composition by way of arrangement, parody, comedic use or lyric change Mechanical Rights: The right to manufacture and distribute copies of a song which you did not write and which is not in the public domain - Applicable to all permanent digital media, music videos distributed by DVD, ringtones, permanent downloads, computer games musical toys, etc. - Does not include the right to display or reprint lyrics or sheet music. -- Mechanical rights vary from country to country. The rights most relevant to most wedding videos as far as the Videographer is concerned are the Synch, Master and technically the Mechanical rights. Last edited by Denny Lajeunesse; January 15th, 2010 at 03:24 AM.

January 20th, 2010, 04:40 PM	#13
Mark Williams Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep South, U.S. Posts: 1,526	Sounds similar to soundclick.com. They have a large artist base. __________________ Mark videos: http://vimeo.com/channels/3523 Stock: http://www.pond5.com/artist/mark29

January 21st, 2010, 02:20 AM	#14
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	thanks erik. all songs are $99 each. we are super excited about this project. P. __________________ site // www.stillmotion.ca blog // www.stillmotionblog.com edu // www.stillmotionexperience.com

January 25th, 2010, 06:32 AM	#15
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	Nice to have another option! Just to update that our authority, RIPS (Recording Industry Performance Singapore) have started a new licencing policy that allows wedding videographers to sync, playback in ballrooms and deliver copies of wedding videos from artist under 14 recording labels. It works by an annual fee of about USD1550 per annum and this licence does not allow uploading of works to the internet. Royalty free songs are still the way to go eventually.