Information for Chris H.'s changes to wedding board...

[Jason Robinson]

Because I feel like engaging in some wild speculation, and because it might be entertaining for our forum wrangler, how about some speculation on the wedding forum changes that Chris mentioned over here.

Anyone have an idea what changes are in the works?

What about ideas that you would like to see implemented?

Me? well I've got no ideas except for a may be the announcement of a new wedding / event board admin / moderator?

[Monday Isa]

A Sticky on using Copyrighted music in productions so we never have to see another one of those threads again. Then a sub-forum to post work. The main forum for technical or creative ideas. Just guessing here.

[Paul Mailath]

Originally Posted by Monday Isa

A Sticky on using Copyrighted music in productions so we never have to see another one of those threads again..

Amen to that, brother

[Chris Hurd]

(Thread title changed from "speculation" to "information" -- thanks for getting the ball rolling, Jason!)

Here's a rough outline of what I had in mind. Of course these plans are going to evolve based on your input... my goal as both the owner of the site and as a former wedding and event videographer is to provide the best community experience on the web for you guys. So here's the short list:

1. A Sticky / FAQ on using copyrighted music in productions so we never have to see another one of those threads again. This will have to be a group effort and it should be simultaneously concise and easy to read and the single best informed article on the web which covers this subject.

2. Per suggestion from Patrick Moreau, this forum will be elevated in visibility not only so that passers-by can more easily find it, but to give it the prominence it so richly deserves. I'm pretty sure this is the single largest-and-most-active wedding video forum on the web. I know of one that's larger, but it's not as active and doesn't have the signal-to-noise ratio that we enjoy. I know of another that's almost as large, but its discussions are hidden and are not publicly accessible. I think DV Info Net currently dominates the forum space for wedding and event videographers, and I want to build that lead extensively. And it's still free, and it'll stay that way as long as I'm around.

3. The addition of a sub-forum for showcasing online video clips. DV Info Net is also working on a free video hosting solution as well, but that's still a little way down the road. Meanwhile we can provide a separate board specifically for sharing clips that are currently hosted elsewhere.

4. The addition of (at least one) *private* invitation-only sub-forum which will not be searchable by Google. The idea is to create a comfortable space for frank discussions that can't be accessed by potential customers. I've had more than one instance of a wedding videographer asking me to withdraw his or her posts from public view because their customers were searching for them through Google, where we're heavily indexed. Some discussions about this business are best conducted behind closed doors, and it's about time that DV Info Net provided that.

5. Expanding our moderator team -- I realize that many of our top names here, folks who are very good candidates for forum leadership positions, are also heavily involved with at least one other wedding video forum site elsewhere on the web. That's fine, but what I'm looking for are those who call DV Info Net home; those who always come here first and are more heavily involved here than at other forum sites. Again, my primary interest is to make DV Info Net the single best destination on the web for wedding & event videographers, so I'm looking for forum leaders who share that vision... not an easy task considering the size and momentum of competing sites, so it's a critical selection process.

6. Redefining the scope of the public forum: a better effort to push certain hardware-specific questions, such as camera-related topics, microphones, etc., to their respective boards (in other words, please use the entire site, and not just this one forum). And while it's crucial to maintain the public forum as we foster the growth of at least one private sub-section, the primary participants in the public forum really should be wedding / event videographers themselves. To that end, when the occasion warrants such action, I will restrict posting access to this board from certain individuals who are not in the business (in fact I have already initiated that process). We'll certainly keep the public forum open and we'll make it stronger than ever, but its primary participation will come from those who are in the business or are serious about wanting to get into it.

Finally, as previously stated, I'm more than happy to entertain your suggestions for improving this place. Much appreciated,

[Chris Davis]

I think Chris will add sophisticated algorithms to detect potentially law breaking/copyright infringing behavior. Therefore, only Australians will be able to post about music in wedding videos, and only if a notarized copy of your AMCOS license is on file.

[Shaun Roemich]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

4. The addition of (at least one) *private* invitation-only sub-forum which will not be searchable by Google. The idea is to create a comfortable space for frank discussions that can't be accessed by potential customers. I've had more than one instance of a wedding videographer asking me to withdraw his or her posts from public view because their customers were searching for them through Google, where we're heavily indexed. Some discussions about this business are best conducted behind closed doors, and it's about time that DV Info Net provided that.

FULL KUDOS!

A websearch for my name turns up a bunch of stuff I've actually done, my website and a BUNCH of my DVI posts, which can be a good or a bad thing as I'm pretty open about some of my views and some of my experiences with clients (who MAY be reading about the horror stories I've written about them...)

Thanks AGAIN CH!

[Travis Cossel]

Chris H, I think that is a very comprehensive and useful list of revisions. I absolutely love the idea of a private sub-forum for discussing sensitive matters. I just think your proposed changes are perfect so far. I don't have anything to add at this point.

Thank you once again for providing such an awesome place for professionals to interact.

[Jason Robinson]

A little bit of what Travis said.

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

1. A Sticky / FAQ on using copyrighted music

This would be most handy. Also handy if it could clearly indicate the nations whose rules it applies to. So may be "general" info at the top and then individuals nations (or nations) can have a section below with the specifics for their laws. May be all the nations with similar laws can be grouped together and the USA can be put at the bottom in the "hall of shame" section with big text that says "whatever you were thinking about doing isn't legal mmmmkay?" :-)

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

2. Per suggestion from Patrick Moreau, this forum will be elevated in visibility

That would be nice. I only briefly looked elsewhere because no other site was as professional about answering my stupid newbie questions. I got completely laughed off the board at the other place by some members posting derogatory comments about me in a different thread, so I figured the maturity of all those important artistic film makers was lacking enough that I shouldn't bother with the entire web site.

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

3. The addition of a sub-forum for showcasing online video clips.

That would be handy. There is the show your work forum, but I have a feeling all the non-event videography people still kind of think of us like the nephew you pat on the head and tell "that looks nice, now run along."

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

4. The addition of (at least one) *private* invitation-only sub-forum which will not be searchable by Google.

Excellent! I created a google news alert for anything bearing my name (with a few flags to get rid of references to sports because apparently there is a famous football (aka soccer) coach that shares my name). I would absolutely love to move all my internal biz related posts out of the public's eye. There are only 3-6 companies in my market, and two or three of us are here on this board. So we are very very searchable by potential clients.

Heck, I would even pay a nominal fee (<$20) for access to a private board for Wedding & event videography. I'm not using any other videography forums (see above experience) so I'm as good as parked here on DVinfo.

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

5. Expanding our moderator team --

I always wondered how much work goes into cleaning up the forums. Are the spam posting problems? Is there a large enough moderator base that these issues are caught right away? I manage a small forum for my church's missions teams and before I was brought on board, the board was swamped with bots spamming for pills, pr0n, etc. I bumped the 3yr old phpBB install and moved to SMF with captcha and a real names policy (thanks almost entirely to my experience using DVi).
So I can appreciate how much work is required to keep something like DVi spam free (hopefully vBullitin has a good captcha that hasn't been broken yet).

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

6. Redefining the scope of the public forum:

I'm sure I've posted here when I should have posted to "taking care of business." I probably felt that the business of weddings & events was probably very different from the business of commercials, films, etc. But I'll try to keep those business posts over there.

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

To that end, when the occasion warrants such action, I will restrict posting access to this board from certain individuals who are not in the business (in fact I have already initiated that process).

I hope this is a very limited kind of restriction, because as big of an annoyance as it is to have the movie & commercial production folks coming in here and reminding us of how illegal us wedding guys are, they still provide fantastic expertise to learn from.

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Finally, as previously stated, I'm more than happy to entertain your suggestions for improving this place. Much appreciated,

As usual, I don't have too many constructive suggestions. Heh. Big help there, I know.

Other than I strongly vote in favor of the ability to create private boards. I don't know how you would conduct the invitation process for those sections. What about a post minimum requirement similar to the private classifieds? You must be (holds up hand) "This involved" so that you can even see the private "business & complain about customers" forum. :-)

[Matt Barwick]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

3. The addition of a sub-forum for showcasing online video clips.

Big double thumbs up on that one.

I think if there's any way of encouraging/fostering constructive critiquing by members that would be great too. Maybe a restriction on posting your own clips for review until you've reviewed/commented on x amount of clips yourself?

Something along those lines anyway...

[Joel Peregrine]

Hi Chris,

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Finally, as previously stated, I'm more than happy to entertain your suggestions for improving this place. Much appreciated,

Something I'd find useful: A wedding-and-event-only freelance resource: A place for individuals and small companies to offer shooting, editing and general outsourcing opportunities. If we set some guidelines for subject titles scanning through the board would be quick and informative. "Shooter available in S.E. WI", "Mac-based editor looking for work" etc. I realize there is a board available to this end on DVInfo, but having the aptitude and skill-set for what we do is so specialized that I think it needs its own space.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Hi Chris -

The overall changes sound fairly good.

Addressing copyright is going to be a bugger - with different international situations and even differing "opinions" (that foster the relatively thoughtful discourse, though I'm sure it can be tedious for bystanders...). With that, you've got the problem of making sure any video posted doesn't fall afoul of any such issues - once you host it, I think you'd need a compliance officer... and you'd probably run some risks that you may not wish to deal with, something to consider...

If Paul Tauger is available, and a couple of the other folks who have some legal chops could work together, that might make for a good project... I know we've tried here to keep the discussions as professional and "expert" as possible, I think they have been quite educational overall, and thoughtful and spirited discourse is one of the joys of this site! As with all thoughtful and spiriited discourse, sometimes it becomes overly heated and sometimes touches on "touchy subjects", but I'd hate to see overly restrictive access, as I think most of us try to spend time on all the forums that touch our lives on DVi (and if we don't, it's worth trying, there's lots of good stuff on here!).

A private "wedding lounge" sounds like a good idea, generally it's a good idea not to say anything if you can't say anything nice... especially on the web! That's a plus of the "real names" policy here - hopefully you won't make too much of an arse of yourself knowing that it could easily attach to you! BUT, a "professionals" area that's got an extra layer of security might be good for those "sensitive" postings that would benefit from the input of other pros.



PS - Thanks by the way for that posting in TCOB on CDMA and the resulting link to the Carterphone!

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Joel Peregrine

A wedding-and-event-only freelance resource... I realize there is a board available to this end on DVInfo, but... I think it needs its own space.

We might file it under Community Marketplace, leaving behind a link to it from
here (goes back to the "use the entire site" concept). Thanks for the suggestion!

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

If Paul Tauger is available, and a couple of the other folks who have some legal chops could work together, that might make for a good project...

Great idea. I'll approach Paul on bended knee, with clasped hands and a teary eye (it's worked before; worth trying again).

[Bryan Daugherty]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

... my goal as both the owner of the site and as a former wedding and event videographer is to provide the best community experience on the web for you guys. So here's the short list:

1. A Sticky / FAQ on using copyrighted music in productions...
2. ...forum will be elevated in visibility not only so that passers-by can more easily find it, but to give it the prominence it so richly deserves..
3. The addition of a sub-forum for showcasing online video clips....
4. The addition of (at least one) *private* invitation-only sub-forum which will not be searchable by Google.
5. Expanding our moderator team...
6. Redefining the scope of the public forum...

Finally, as previously stated, I'm more than happy to entertain your suggestions for improving this place. Much appreciated,

This is an awesome list of goals and I can't tell you how excited this makes me. Especially, number 4. I think I was one of the members who sent you a request along those lines. Sometimes it isn't a matter of discussing a client but rather how to handle a situation that you wouldn't want clients viewing. Having a virtual water cooler is a great idea. Thanks Chris, keep up the good work!

[Philip Howells]

Originally Posted by Monday Isa

A Sticky on using Copyrighted music in productions so we never have to see another one of those threads again. Then a sub-forum to post work. The main forum for technical or creative ideas. Just guessing here.

I'd go along with this except that I'd ask you to remember two things, a) that this thread has an international readership and what's true in USA isn't necessarily in the UK so the thread should cover all variations - (as was alluded to before) and b) things change so whoever writes the stickies should be responsible for making sure they're kept up to date.

[Vito DeFilippo]

This is all great, Chris. Thanks very much.

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

3. The addition of a sub-forum for showcasing online video clips.

4. The addition of (at least one) *private* invitation-only sub-forum which will not be searchable by Google.

Number 4 is a welcome idea, and sometimes I've thought back on my posts and wondered if I had been tactful enough in general, or did I have to worry about prospective customers reading something. But, the posts I would most likely worry about would be in response to stuff I might put in #3. Would you object to videos being posted for private review so that they couldn't easily be found by Google? I could easily imagine (having already posted stuff like that) putting a video up of terrible material in order to ask advice on how to fix a problem or whatever. It would be great to be able to frankly discuss such material without having to worry.

Or maybe #3 and #4 could be merged. I don't ever post videos here hoping a bride will run across it. I post here for feedback so that I can learn.