Unexpected Surprise: PMW-200 Audio!

[Doug Jensen]

Just to point out the obvious, if you do NOT use the internal mic as one of your audio sources, then you will only have two sources of audio (XLR1 and XLR2) . . . in other words, you lose out on what the OP was so excited about when he started this thread. Technically you might have four channels, but you're only going to have 2 sources without the internal stereo mic.

[Vincent Kenis]

Hasn't anybody yet tried to open a PMW200 and replace the internal mic with something better ?

[James Kuhn]

I believe Doug Jensen pointed out that Channels 3 & 4, when recorded, are always controlled by the AGC feature of the camera. There is a 'Menu>AUDIO SET>AGC Spec', that can introduce up to -17dB of Input signal (source) attenuation. I'd give this a try, too.

After reviewing the Manual a little more, it seems the 'Limiter Mode' is only active when "...the AUDIO SELECT switch is set to MANU (Manual)". This may negate the use of the 'Limiter' on channels 3 & 4, since they are controlled by the AGC circuit? Someone with more intimate knowledge of the PMW-200 should be able to confirm this?

I hope this helps.

Regards,

J.

[Malcolm Hamilton]

Originally Posted by Vincent Kenis

Hasn't anybody yet tried to open a PMW200 and replace the internal mic with something better ?

It would be fantastic to be able to (somehow) connect another wireless to ch. 3 (and 4 I guess, as they seem to be linked). Is this within the realm of the possible though?
Regards, Malcolm

[James Kuhn]

Malcolm Hamilton...The 'External MIC' source, channels 1 & 2, are strictly the XLR Audio Block. With that said, the 'Audio Input' for channel 3 & 4 can be changed from the 'Internal MIC' to the 'External Source', i.e., all four (4) channels would record the whatever the 'External Source' captures.

I don't believe there is a way to 'add' another 'source' on channels 3 & 4. It would be sweet!

Again, I'm sure there are other more technically astute people who will chime in if I'm in error.

Regards,

J.

[Doug Jensen]

Some people may find this video helpful.

XDCAM ESSENTIALS Episode 6: Recording Four Channels of Audio on Vimeo

[Vincent Kenis]

Thanks Doug (with one year delay...)
My suggestion about replacing the PMW's internal mic came from the fact that I never succeeded in obtaining anything that sounded like stereo from it. In FCPX I can see that the levels of the 2 channels are very slightly different, but when listening with headphones the sensation of space is zero, it sounds just like mono - which to my ears makes it unfit for recording concert hall amblience, like you suggest in your video example. Could it be that my internal mic is defective, or is it supposed to sound like that, and if yes, why ? I get much more enjoyable stereo for any amateur camera... Thanks

[Jack Zhang]

The design of the PMW-200 internal mic makes it less for ambiance but rather for straight forward sound capture. You can tell by the holes in the design that none of them are at the top or sides of the capsule.

The EX1 and EX1R had more open mic capsules which made them bad for speech, but perfect for wide stereo ambiance.

[Dave Sperling]

Since this thread had just awakened...
In the past year I've had several shoots where recording the camera mic on 3 and 4 has proved a huge bonus / (perhaps lifesaver). One such example happened the night I was hired to film the curtain call from the Broadway show 'Beautiful.' I had been asked to show up an hour before the show, run two mic cables from the audio board down to my seat in the 5th row, watch the show and then start taping at the beginning of the curtain call. The two mic cables were for board feeds of vocal and music tracks. There were no further instructions what to tape - only that I would know when I saw it. Of course this was the night that Carole King saw the musical for the first time, and surprised the cast by coming in from the wings behind them before they started to sing the post-bows encore.
From an audio perspective the two tracks from the board would have been a nightmare in telling the story. They provided me with very dry feeds of the cast mics on one track, and the orchestra on the other. Remember - cast and crew were not aware of her presence, so there was no 'preparation' for this Of course the crucial moment occurred when Carole appeared on stage behind the cast - and the audience reacted to her presence before the cast (with their backs to her) knew she was there. It was the sound of the audience - captured with the camera mics on channels 3 & 4 - that provided the excitement to the moment on the video. In the overnight edit the camera mics were mixed in throughout the cut to add dimension and excitement to the piece (which then ran on tv network and local morning shows across the country a few hours later.)
On a number of other occasions, particularly when taking board feeds for the main audio tracks, the camera tracks on 3 & 4 have provided a dimension to the audio that would not otherwise have been captured. Massive stereo separation, no --- but huge usability, yes!

[Andy Wilkinson]

I've had unexpected moments (not as dramatic as the example above!) where the additional audio captured from my PMW-300 has proved HIGHLY useful for the editing mix on several occassions in fast moving run and gun situations....saved my bacon at least once!

[Andrew Smith]

Great story, Dave.

On the flip side ... did the client notice or value the difference in the extra non-board audio?

Andrew

[Dave Sperling]

It would have been seriously missed.
Like watching a sporting event without hearing the crowd cheering when the home team scores in overtime...
As it happens, the press rep (the client) was there during the overnight edit - and did hear the difference.

[Vincent Kenis]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

The design of the PMW-200 internal mic makes it less for ambiance but rather for straight forward sound capture. You can tell by the holes in the design that none of them are at the top or sides of the capsule.

The EX1 and EX1R had more open mic capsules which made them bad for speech, but perfect for wide stereo ambiance.

The obvoius answer to that dilemma is MS stereo recording, which enables to choose at the editing stage whether you want the straight mono sound from the center cardio mic, the super-wide stereo from combination of cardioid mic for center and fig of 8 mic for the sides, or anything in between, without phase problems whatsoever... totally practical and flexible... hence my question about the possibiliy to replace the original capsules.

[Vincent Kenis]

Subsidiairy question: in the case where the external source is a MS stereo mic, does a NLE application such as FCPX enable to use the zoom meta-data so that the stereo image is widened when zooming out and narrowed when zooming in ?