Shutter on/off at DVinfo.net

Phil French · September 17th, 2010, 06:07 PM

Whoops! Accidentally turned my shutter off(on my EX1r) - which got me thinking... Why would someone want to turn their shutter off?

Bob Grant · September 17th, 2010, 06:42 PM

As I pretty well always shoot 50i I almost always have the shutter Off as this is the only way to get the correct shutter speed of 1/50th Sec. To me the question would be 'why would anyone turn the shutter on?' as you're wasting 1 stop of light.
Even when shooting 25p I find the extra motion blur from a 360deg shutter not objectionable and the extra stop of light can be very handy. This however is an option to exercise with caution if fast motion is involved as you may or may not like the outcome.

Serena Steuart · September 18th, 2010, 07:02 AM

Agree. I shoot 25P and in general have the shutter off. The motion blur is desirable for smooth motion. Fast motion? How fast? But good for cars in traffic & people walking. And as Bob says, the extra stop is useful.

Phil French · September 18th, 2010, 11:04 AM

Thanks. The video I shot (24P) did look ok and when I played with the on/off, I noticed the extra light with shutter off. Maybe this will come in useful. I did notice that birds wings looked worse than normal though (as you said), due to their speed. I also did a timelapse before I noticed and it looked just fine - that might be a good application if I need more light.

Marcus Durham · September 18th, 2010, 03:55 PM

Shutter off for low light situations or when shooting interlaced (as shutter off is 1/50 or 1/60)

If shooting 25p, 1/25 (shutter off) is a little low and most motion will blur. If using 50p you'll be OK in most situations with it off.

Last year I had been shooting in low light (at 25p) and then had to immediately go outside to get some footage of a passing train. In the haste I forgot the shutter was set to off. The footage looks OK but on a train going at 70mph, all detail was lost. Shot still works but I was kicking myself because its not how I wanted the shot to look.

Usually, if shooting progressive, I shoot 1/50. It gives the best balance of motion and detail on the captured image. Sometimes retaining detail on the image is more important than smoothness. I've shot quite a few videos of high speed machining processes and clients demand detail. So I trade off the image looking "natural" for a high shutter speed.

Jim Snow · September 18th, 2010, 08:38 PM

This is something that has never been clear to me. I generally shoot my EX1R at 60i at 1/60th sec. In this case, does it matter if the shutter is on or off?

Ivan Gomez Villafane · September 18th, 2010, 09:07 PM

I disagree entirely with the guys saying it's fine to shoot with shutter off, that would be 360º degrees shutter or 1/24 shooting 24p, or 1/25 shooting 25p.

I hate that motion blur, plus I've never ever seen that look in any hollywood movie or tv show EXCEPT for Public Enemies, where sometimes the subjects looked like ghosts when they moved around a fixed frame.

Be sure to make tests and be convinced that you like what you see before shooting anything really important with shutter off.

Just my opinion, have fun.

Serena Steuart · September 19th, 2010, 01:28 AM

Well of course you must always test rather than just accept what someone tells you. However let me assure you that turning the shutter off does not give you ghostly images. You have to shoot accumulated frames to get that. There are times you want detail in the frame, but to get detail with fast motion means small shutter sector, little motion blur and motion jerkiness at 24/25 fps. You must always test.

Phil French · September 19th, 2010, 08:41 AM

I certainly will continue to shoot with shutter at 180 degrees, but it was an interesting (though unintentional) experiment.

David Issko · September 21st, 2010, 03:03 PM

For my 50i shooting, unless I am looking to create a "stutter shutter" look or similar, I operate with my shutter "off". Although technically it is not off, the option has been switched off.

Adam Reuter · September 22nd, 2010, 06:46 PM

I shoot shutter off when shooting 30p or 24p in lowlight situations. This is to gain an extra stop of light.

For 60i/60p or in better lighting conditions I am shooting 1/60 for the 60 modes and 1/48 or 180º angle for the 24p modes.

Thomas Nibler · September 28th, 2010, 02:48 PM

if you are using artificial light, you should allways turn shutter off, otherwise you'll get some flickering or darker steaks marching slowly through your image.

Doug Jensen · September 29th, 2010, 08:46 AM

Bad advice.
Maybe shutter is a problem in Germany, but not in NTSC areas. Over here, shutter can (and should) be used in 99.9% of all shooting situations regardless of whether the lighting is artificial or natural. Personally, I never turn the shutter off unless I'm in a very dark location and there's very little motion.

Ian Campbell · September 29th, 2010, 08:20 PM

I had always been a little nervous of shooting "shutter off" due to motion blur potential. I mostly shoot 1080/30p and find the light loss in progressive vs. interlaced a bit of a problem when I shoot conference work in natural (low) light. I now have no hesitation to flick the switch to shutter off. in low light When there is minimal movement in the shoot, the "shutter off "setting is ideal (for me anyway) since I can keep the gain setting to "0" or to at least a low number setting - without compromising picture quality. The look of gain is worse, to me, then a slight increase in motion blur. I doubt I'd ever use shutter off for anything where there would be considerable movement in the frame.

Ian

Bo Skelmose · September 30th, 2010, 01:06 AM

I have begun recording in 720 50p - Now I do not use the shutter anymore. When I recorded in 25P I used the 180 degree shutter. Played back on CRT monitor it looks stuttering but on an LCD screen you got a great result. I believe that the LCD screen gave a lag to the material so it did not stutter.
Who have CRT screens theese days - except from us !

September 17th, 2010, 06:07 PM	#1
Phil French Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lousana, Alberta, Canada Posts: 146	Shutter on/off Whoops! Accidentally turned my shutter off(on my EX1r) - which got me thinking... Why would someone want to turn their shutter off? __________________ Nature Boy

September 18th, 2010, 11:04 AM	#4
Phil French Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lousana, Alberta, Canada Posts: 146	Thanks. The video I shot (24P) did look ok and when I played with the on/off, I noticed the extra light with shutter off. Maybe this will come in useful. I did notice that birds wings looked worse than normal though (as you said), due to their speed. I also did a timelapse before I noticed and it looked just fine - that might be a good application if I need more light. __________________ Nature Boy

September 18th, 2010, 03:55 PM	#5
Marcus Durham Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 693	Shutter off for low light situations or when shooting interlaced (as shutter off is 1/50 or 1/60) If shooting 25p, 1/25 (shutter off) is a little low and most motion will blur. If using 50p you'll be OK in most situations with it off. Last year I had been shooting in low light (at 25p) and then had to immediately go outside to get some footage of a passing train. In the haste I forgot the shutter was set to off. The footage looks OK but on a train going at 70mph, all detail was lost. Shot still works but I was kicking myself because its not how I wanted the shot to look. Usually, if shooting progressive, I shoot 1/50. It gives the best balance of motion and detail on the captured image. Sometimes retaining detail on the image is more important than smoothness. I've shot quite a few videos of high speed machining processes and clients demand detail. So I trade off the image looking "natural" for a high shutter speed. __________________ Marcus Durham Media2u, Corporate Video Production For Your Business - http://www.media2u.co.uk

September 18th, 2010, 09:07 PM	#7
Ivan Gomez Villafane Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Posts: 73	I disagree entirely with the guys saying it's fine to shoot with shutter off, that would be 360º degrees shutter or 1/24 shooting 24p, or 1/25 shooting 25p. I hate that motion blur, plus I've never ever seen that look in any hollywood movie or tv show EXCEPT for Public Enemies, where sometimes the subjects looked like ghosts when they moved around a fixed frame. Be sure to make tests and be convinced that you like what you see before shooting anything really important with shutter off. Just my opinion, have fun. __________________ Thank you for sharing your knowledge, Iván.

September 19th, 2010, 08:41 AM	#9
Phil French Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lousana, Alberta, Canada Posts: 146	I certainly will continue to shoot with shutter at 180 degrees, but it was an interesting (though unintentional) experiment. __________________ Nature Boy

September 17th, 2010, 06:42 PM	#2
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	As I pretty well always shoot 50i I almost always have the shutter Off as this is the only way to get the correct shutter speed of 1/50th Sec. To me the question would be 'why would anyone turn the shutter on?' as you're wasting 1 stop of light. Even when shooting 25p I find the extra motion blur from a 360deg shutter not objectionable and the extra stop of light can be very handy. This however is an option to exercise with caution if fast motion is involved as you may or may not like the outcome.

September 18th, 2010, 07:02 AM	#3
Serena Steuart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Studio Alnitak, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Posts: 640 Images: 3	Agree. I shoot 25P and in general have the shutter off. The motion blur is desirable for smooth motion. Fast motion? How fast? But good for cars in traffic & people walking. And as Bob says, the extra stop is useful.

September 18th, 2010, 08:38 PM	#6
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	This is something that has never been clear to me. I generally shoot my EX1R at 60i at 1/60th sec. In this case, does it matter if the shutter is on or off?

September 19th, 2010, 01:28 AM	#8
Serena Steuart Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Studio Alnitak, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Posts: 640 Images: 3	Well of course you must always test rather than just accept what someone tells you. However let me assure you that turning the shutter off does not give you ghostly images. You have to shoot accumulated frames to get that. There are times you want detail in the frame, but to get detail with fast motion means small shutter sector, little motion blur and motion jerkiness at 24/25 fps. You must always test.

September 21st, 2010, 03:03 PM	#10
David Issko Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 393	For my 50i shooting, unless I am looking to create a "stutter shutter" look or similar, I operate with my shutter "off". Although technically it is not off, the option has been switched off. __________________ David Issko Edit 1 Video Productions

September 22nd, 2010, 06:46 PM	#11
Adam Reuter Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 234	I shoot shutter off when shooting 30p or 24p in lowlight situations. This is to gain an extra stop of light. For 60i/60p or in better lighting conditions I am shooting 1/60 for the 60 modes and 1/48 or 180º angle for the 24p modes.

September 28th, 2010, 02:48 PM	#12
Thomas Nibler Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 51	if you are using artificial light, you should allways turn shutter off, otherwise you'll get some flickering or darker steaks marching slowly through your image.

September 29th, 2010, 08:46 AM	#13
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	Bad advice. Maybe shutter is a problem in Germany, but not in NTSC areas. Over here, shutter can (and should) be used in 99.9% of all shooting situations regardless of whether the lighting is artificial or natural. Personally, I never turn the shutter off unless I'm in a very dark location and there's very little motion. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

September 29th, 2010, 08:20 PM	#14
Ian Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 141	I had always been a little nervous of shooting "shutter off" due to motion blur potential. I mostly shoot 1080/30p and find the light loss in progressive vs. interlaced a bit of a problem when I shoot conference work in natural (low) light. I now have no hesitation to flick the switch to shutter off. in low light When there is minimal movement in the shoot, the "shutter off "setting is ideal (for me anyway) since I can keep the gain setting to "0" or to at least a low number setting - without compromising picture quality. The look of gain is worse, to me, then a slight increase in motion blur. I doubt I'd ever use shutter off for anything where there would be considerable movement in the frame. Ian

September 30th, 2010, 01:06 AM	#15
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	I have begun recording in 720 50p - Now I do not use the shutter anymore. When I recorded in 25P I used the 180 degree shutter. Played back on CRT monitor it looks stuttering but on an LCD screen you got a great result. I believe that the LCD screen gave a lag to the material so it did not stutter. Who have CRT screens theese days - except from us !