Picture Profile Recipes

Mark David Williams · January 31st, 2008, 07:09 AM

I always either use a colour meter or a white balance to a card first!

Using Bills settings I get a true look. In fact the best of all profiles I have seen. However when colour correcting in post. First using colorista to further white balance if neccesary. Then color finesse in HSL mode I can get a really nice effect with the cameras own color balance. The thought crossed my mind I wonder if the camera is set this way for Colour grading. Probably not.

Robert Musiello · January 31st, 2008, 07:33 AM

ok i'm a little confused...
I'm using a mac
So I should download the .suf file from chris..
If so how do I do that, when I try it wants to save as a php file.
Then what o I do with it and how do I put this into the camera...

Mark David Williams · January 31st, 2008, 07:46 AM

Piotr. I just realised how my original post reads! I shouldnt have said colour balance. "Although that describes it correctly" .But the standard colour settings of the camera. Because you have to balance them to get right!

Piotr Wozniacki · January 31st, 2008, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark David Williams

Piotr. I just realised how my original post reads! I shouldnt have said colour balance. "Although that describes it correctly" .But the standard colour settings of the camera. Because you have to balance them to get right!

Yes Mark, I think I did get you right - and hope you got me right as well (sorry, English is not my native language).

Mark David Williams · January 31st, 2008, 09:04 AM

Piotr. I meant Bills settings. The colours here

Matrix ...............on
Select................hisat
Level..................0
Phase.................-5
R-G...................75
R-B...................0
G-R...................-18
G-B...................-32
B-R...................-27
B-G...................13

Steven Thomas · January 31st, 2008, 12:51 PM

Yes, I like Bills last profile TC2.

This seems to work good in bright light.

Bill, how do you feel about having possibly three of these profiles.
bright, moderate, and low light?

They all would remain on CINE1, but I imagine all that would need to be changed is the gamma and black levels for each profile.

Bill Ravens · January 31st, 2008, 01:17 PM

Steve...

Makes sense to me. As I said earlier in this thread, I dropped the CINE1 gamma levels from 0 to -40 to get the middle gray values at 50% IRE on the WFM. The STD3 profile was much closer. I had to drop the LEVELS to -15 to get middle gray at 50%. I was set at a fixed f/4.0 and 1/60 sec exposure for my tests. Knowing that, if one stays with the CINE1 preset, my recommendation is that you experiment with different GAMMA LEVELS, varying between 0 and -40, depending on what suits you for varying light conditions.

The other CINE presets were quite surprising at how MUCH they stretched the blacks and compressed the hi-lights. Having seen that, I doubt I'll use them much.

Michael H. Stevens · February 1st, 2008, 09:55 PM

Isn't black stretching and compressing whites to avoid blow-out and to give a flat low contrast film look middle what most users are after?

Dennis Schmitz · February 2nd, 2008, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael H. Stevens

Isn't black stretching and compressing whites to avoid blow-out and to give a flat low contrast film look middle what most users are after?

I'm thinking the same...

Piotr Wozniacki · February 2nd, 2008, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael H. Stevens

Isn't black stretching and compressing whites to avoid blow-out and to give a flat low contrast film look middle what most users are after?

Yes it is; however, in low-light situations (or with dull scenery) you would want it the other way around: compress blacks so that noise in the shadow is minimized, and elevate the knee point (stretch highs) to get as much brighness into the picture as possible.

Of course I do agree that in an ideal world (and ideal camera that never introduces gain noise or black/white clipping), shooting flat and only grading in post would be preferrable...

Bill Ravens · February 3rd, 2008, 09:01 AM

Been playing with the different CINE choices. Cine 1, 3, and 4 all work with the color profile I generated, but, provide different levels of black stretch. I also reset the gamma level to zero when I use cine1, 3 or 4 to open up the blacks. See Adam Wilt's opinion of each cine, progressive levels of black stretch, except for Cine2, which is a flyer.

Steven Thomas · February 3rd, 2008, 09:32 AM

Bill, are you saying that your new profile is:

Matrix ...............on
Select................hisat
Level..................0
Phase.................-5
R-G...................75
R-B...................0
G-R...................-18
G-B...................-32
B-R...................-27
B-G...................13

Gamma Level.............. 0 (changed from -40)
Gamma Select.............CINE1
Black..........................-12
Black Gamma..............0

If so, this will probaby help the crushed blacks. I noticed the blacks were a bit crushed in your last -40 gamma setting. Well, at least in low light.

Bill Ravens · February 3rd, 2008, 09:48 AM

Steve...

yes! You lose a little dynamic range, but, it takes less CCing in post. And selecting a CINE1, 3,or 4 setting, depending on how much black stretch you want/need.
I think part of the lesson, here, is that the color matrix settings are good for a truer color, however, the way Sony applies gamma curve settings is a learning process for me.
One thing about my old settings is that the auto iris tends to underexpose unless one manually adjusts the iris for 100% zebra. It seems to be equivalent to something less than 1/2 f/stop since adjusting the level in TLCS by +0.5 is too much.

Your observation that light level effects things is right on.

Steven Thomas · February 3rd, 2008, 10:29 AM

Thanks Bill.
I'm going to make three TC files.
TC1 (CINE1)
TC2 (CINE3)
TC3 (CINE4)

Matrix ...............on
Select................hisat
Level..................0
Phase.................-5
R-G...................75
R-B...................0
G-R...................-18
G-B...................-32
B-R...................-27
B-G...................13

Gamma Level.............. 0 (changed from -40)
Gamma Select.............(CINE1, CINE3, or CINE4)
Black..........................-12
Black Gamma..............0

Thanks for your time Bill.

Bill Ravens · February 3rd, 2008, 10:31 AM

Steve...

Already done that...here
pp1: Steve Thomas' PP
pp2: original TC1
pp3: TC2 Cine1
pp4: TC2 Cine3
pp5: TC2 Cine4
pp6:TC2

note; you have to rename the suf file to "setup.suf" before loading it onto your SxS.

January 31st, 2008, 07:33 AM	#107
Robert Musiello Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 143	help ok i'm a little confused... I'm using a mac So I should download the .suf file from chris.. If so how do I do that, when I try it wants to save as a php file. Then what o I do with it and how do I put this into the camera...

February 3rd, 2008, 09:32 AM	#117
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Bill, are you saying that your new profile is: Matrix ...............on Select................hisat Level..................0 Phase.................-5 R-G...................75 R-B...................0 G-R...................-18 G-B...................-32 B-R...................-27 B-G...................13 Gamma Level.............. 0 (changed from -40) Gamma Select.............CINE1 Black..........................-12 Black Gamma..............0 If so, this will probaby help the crushed blacks. I noticed the blacks were a bit crushed in your last -40 gamma setting. Well, at least in low light. Last edited by Steven Thomas; February 3rd, 2008 at 10:25 AM.

January 31st, 2008, 07:09 AM	#106
Mark David Williams Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Hertfordshire UK Posts: 414	I always either use a colour meter or a white balance to a card first! Using Bills settings I get a true look. In fact the best of all profiles I have seen. However when colour correcting in post. First using colorista to further white balance if neccesary. Then color finesse in HSL mode I can get a really nice effect with the cameras own color balance. The thought crossed my mind I wonder if the camera is set this way for Colour grading. Probably not.

January 31st, 2008, 07:46 AM	#108
Mark David Williams Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Hertfordshire UK Posts: 414	Piotr. I just realised how my original post reads! I shouldnt have said colour balance. "Although that describes it correctly" .But the standard colour settings of the camera. Because you have to balance them to get right!

January 31st, 2008, 09:04 AM	#110
Mark David Williams Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Hertfordshire UK Posts: 414	Piotr. I meant Bills settings. The colours here Matrix ...............on Select................hisat Level..................0 Phase.................-5 R-G...................75 R-B...................0 G-R...................-18 G-B...................-32 B-R...................-27 B-G...................13

January 31st, 2008, 12:51 PM	#111
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Yes, I like Bills last profile TC2. This seems to work good in bright light. Bill, how do you feel about having possibly three of these profiles. bright, moderate, and low light? They all would remain on CINE1, but I imagine all that would need to be changed is the gamma and black levels for each profile.

January 31st, 2008, 01:17 PM	#112
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Steve... Makes sense to me. As I said earlier in this thread, I dropped the CINE1 gamma levels from 0 to -40 to get the middle gray values at 50% IRE on the WFM. The STD3 profile was much closer. I had to drop the LEVELS to -15 to get middle gray at 50%. I was set at a fixed f/4.0 and 1/60 sec exposure for my tests. Knowing that, if one stays with the CINE1 preset, my recommendation is that you experiment with different GAMMA LEVELS, varying between 0 and -40, depending on what suits you for varying light conditions. The other CINE presets were quite surprising at how MUCH they stretched the blacks and compressed the hi-lights. Having seen that, I doubt I'll use them much.

February 1st, 2008, 09:55 PM	#113
Michael H. Stevens Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Palm Desert, California Posts: 311	Isn't black stretching and compressing whites to avoid blow-out and to give a flat low contrast film look middle what most users are after?

February 3rd, 2008, 09:01 AM	#116
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Been playing with the different CINE choices. Cine 1, 3, and 4 all work with the color profile I generated, but, provide different levels of black stretch. I also reset the gamma level to zero when I use cine1, 3 or 4 to open up the blacks. See Adam Wilt's opinion of each cine, progressive levels of black stretch, except for Cine2, which is a flyer.

February 3rd, 2008, 09:48 AM	#118
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Steve... yes! You lose a little dynamic range, but, it takes less CCing in post. And selecting a CINE1, 3,or 4 setting, depending on how much black stretch you want/need. I think part of the lesson, here, is that the color matrix settings are good for a truer color, however, the way Sony applies gamma curve settings is a learning process for me. One thing about my old settings is that the auto iris tends to underexpose unless one manually adjusts the iris for 100% zebra. It seems to be equivalent to something less than 1/2 f/stop since adjusting the level in TLCS by +0.5 is too much. Your observation that light level effects things is right on.

February 3rd, 2008, 10:29 AM	#119
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Thanks Bill. I'm going to make three TC files. TC1 (CINE1) TC2 (CINE3) TC3 (CINE4) Matrix ...............on Select................hisat Level..................0 Phase.................-5 R-G...................75 R-B...................0 G-R...................-18 G-B...................-32 B-R...................-27 B-G...................13 Gamma Level.............. 0 (changed from -40) Gamma Select.............(CINE1, CINE3, or CINE4) Black..........................-12 Black Gamma..............0 Thanks for your time Bill.