Whats up with those highlights? at DVinfo.net

Adam Grunseth · November 27th, 2013, 11:54 PM

Hi everyone!

I am in the market for a new camera. The intended use will be for commercial and scripted work, where the shots are all carefully planned and lighted.

At this point I am primarily considering either the FS100 with an external recorder or the Blackmagic Cinema camera. Unfortunately I just can't seem to decide.

I really like that the FS100 has a super 35 size sensor, but I also really like the dynamic range offered by the BMCC. Dynamic range isn't everything to me though, and for a while I was leaning more towards the FS100 except I keep coming back to one thing- The highlights.

In a lot of the stuff I have seen shot with the FS100 the highlights seem very harsh. It seems to clip to white in a very unpleasing and video-ish way. The highlight handling is really making me consider that perhaps I would be better off with the BMCC or some other camera.

I am wondering how possible it might be with the FS100 to adjust the response curve to get a nicer falloff into the highlights. Just some way to smooth out that transition to white so it is a bit smoother and doesn't clip so harshly.

Any insight anyone could provide would be extremely appreciated.

Gabe Strong · November 28th, 2013, 01:34 AM

PP's are your friend. I'd look at profiles from Frank (G-Log Ultimate), Sam (Ferarri) and Nirv as
good starting points. Each does something different and you need to know what you are trying
to do. An interesting thread on PP's here:

FS100 PICTURE PROFILE RECOMMENDATION for these 3 kind of shots [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Highlights on the FS100 CAN be pretty harsh. You need to tame them with your PP's, and you
may very well need to have a couple PP's (one for sunny outdoors, one for dark indoors, one
for cloudy days, etc). If you use PP's to your advantage, highlight handling is not a problem.

Woody Sanford · November 28th, 2013, 04:01 PM

X2 Gabe.

I'd also recommend spending some time with any "Flat" picture profiles and test judging exposure. Using the CPF profile with the in camera lut to set exposure by is a good starting point.

Gabe Strong · November 28th, 2013, 06:58 PM

If you really want to get into PPs (and you should learn at least something about them, the
FS100 is a serious camera, so learn about all the control you have over everything) check out Mark's PDF where he has collected a bunch of PPs.

http://markbattistellafilms.com/medi...100_PP.pdf?v=5

A good starting point as you learn more about PPs.

Erik Wittbusch · December 3rd, 2013, 02:38 PM

I used both cameras a lot this year. Totally different!

FS100 is a compact S35 camera with fantastic lowlight and sharpness. It's more or less ready to use with proper XLR, mic, grip, display...
The highlight handling and the overall look will always be a little on the videoish side, no matter what pp you use. It's just the missing cinegammas and the 8 bit processing that limits its output.

The BMCC is just a block with a lens mount and some buttons + fixed display. You'll still need a lot more to produce a film. But: The RAW footage is fantastic up to 800ASA (be aware of the data rates: 7,5 GB/min).
If you mind the small sensor, just have a look here: F0.74 - new Metabones Speed Boosters break boundaries » EOSHD.com

The BMCC footage needs heavy post processing and strong computer/storage power. Don't be fooled by the low price of the body only!

Matt Davis · December 4th, 2013, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Grunseth

I am wondering how possible it might be with the FS100 to adjust the response curve to get a nicer falloff into the highlights. Just some way to smooth out that transition to white so it is a bit smoother and doesn't clip so harshly.

The main differentiator between the FS100 and the FS700 (apart from the slomo, the NDs, the better buttons and so on) is that the FS700 uses CineGammas where the FS100 has 'CineTone' (not the same thing at all) and Knee control.

Highlight taming starts with setting the Knee at an appropriate point, and then working out how much compression you want to apply: too much, and your image looks false and wrapped in clingfilm. Too little and nothing changes.

I made this a while back and the original seems to have moved on the Sony site. Oh, and for any engineers watching, please note, this is the 'Children's Bedtime Story' version of gammas and other stuff, but the bit about the knee controls and their effects should be quite revealing.

November 27th, 2013, 11:54 PM	#1
Adam Grunseth Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Eugene Oregon Posts: 393	Whats up with those highlights? Hi everyone! I am in the market for a new camera. The intended use will be for commercial and scripted work, where the shots are all carefully planned and lighted. At this point I am primarily considering either the FS100 with an external recorder or the Blackmagic Cinema camera. Unfortunately I just can't seem to decide. I really like that the FS100 has a super 35 size sensor, but I also really like the dynamic range offered by the BMCC. Dynamic range isn't everything to me though, and for a while I was leaning more towards the FS100 except I keep coming back to one thing- The highlights. In a lot of the stuff I have seen shot with the FS100 the highlights seem very harsh. It seems to clip to white in a very unpleasing and video-ish way. The highlight handling is really making me consider that perhaps I would be better off with the BMCC or some other camera. I am wondering how possible it might be with the FS100 to adjust the response curve to get a nicer falloff into the highlights. Just some way to smooth out that transition to white so it is a bit smoother and doesn't clip so harshly. Any insight anyone could provide would be extremely appreciated.

November 28th, 2013, 01:34 AM	#2
Gabe Strong Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 814	Re: Whats up with those highlights? PP's are your friend. I'd look at profiles from Frank (G-Log Ultimate), Sam (Ferarri) and Nirv as good starting points. Each does something different and you need to know what you are trying to do. An interesting thread on PP's here: FS100 PICTURE PROFILE RECOMMENDATION for these 3 kind of shots [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking Highlights on the FS100 CAN be pretty harsh. You need to tame them with your PP's, and you may very well need to have a couple PP's (one for sunny outdoors, one for dark indoors, one for cloudy days, etc). If you use PP's to your advantage, highlight handling is not a problem.

November 28th, 2013, 04:01 PM	#3
Woody Sanford Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Princeton, NC Posts: 161	Re: Whats up with those highlights? X2 Gabe. I'd also recommend spending some time with any "Flat" picture profiles and test judging exposure. Using the CPF profile with the in camera lut to set exposure by is a good starting point.

November 28th, 2013, 06:58 PM	#4
Gabe Strong Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 814	Re: Whats up with those highlights? If you really want to get into PPs (and you should learn at least something about them, the FS100 is a serious camera, so learn about all the control you have over everything) check out Mark's PDF where he has collected a bunch of PPs. http://markbattistellafilms.com/medi...100_PP.pdf?v=5 A good starting point as you learn more about PPs.

December 3rd, 2013, 02:38 PM	#5
Erik Wittbusch Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Duisburg Posts: 93	Re: Whats up with those highlights? I used both cameras a lot this year. Totally different! FS100 is a compact S35 camera with fantastic lowlight and sharpness. It's more or less ready to use with proper XLR, mic, grip, display... The highlight handling and the overall look will always be a little on the videoish side, no matter what pp you use. It's just the missing cinegammas and the 8 bit processing that limits its output. The BMCC is just a block with a lens mount and some buttons + fixed display. You'll still need a lot more to produce a film. But: The RAW footage is fantastic up to 800ASA (be aware of the data rates: 7,5 GB/min). If you mind the small sensor, just have a look here: F0.74 - new Metabones Speed Boosters break boundaries » EOSHD.com The BMCC footage needs heavy post processing and strong computer/storage power. Don't be fooled by the low price of the body only!