Why is everyone afraid of 720p? at DVinfo.net

John Meeks · June 18th, 2010, 05:25 PM

I've seen posts where people are comparing 1080/60i and 1080/30p on this camera.

I've tried all 3 modes: 1080/60i, 1080/30p, and 720/60p. The 30p looks horrible, the 60i is decent, but the 720/60p is buttery smooth, probably the best picture I've seen anywhere. The resolution looks the same even on huge screens that I've tried it on.

So, you guys should at least try 720p before you pick a format, I think it's the hidden gem of the NX5U.

Daniel Paquin · June 18th, 2010, 09:18 PM

I totally agree with you John.

I only used two format with this camera todate 720p/60 on FMU and 480 on SDHC card.

I am very pleased with the picture I am getting in using 720p/60.

Regrds!

Joe Goldsberry · June 19th, 2010, 01:04 PM

I agree. Unless a camera shoots in 1080p 60, 720p will be the best. Don't even bother with 1080p 30.

Joe

Steve Phillipps · June 19th, 2010, 01:29 PM

I assume you mean with cheaper cameras Joe as thats certainly not the case with broadcast cameras like the PDW700 and F900 for instance - nothing wrong with their 1080/30P.
Steve

Ron Evans · June 19th, 2010, 06:38 PM

I for one do not like the slow frame rates whatever the quality of the camera ( unless there is almost nothing moving very much in the frame)

Ron Evans

Steve Phillipps · June 20th, 2010, 03:21 AM

That's an odd idea though Ron, what about the Star Wars films that Lucas shot on Sonys, and Collateral was 24P video etc., there've been lots of Hollywood movies in recent years on video at 24P. Plus loads of TV content, wildlife films like Planet Earth. You can't dislike all of them surely?
Steve

Ron Evans · June 20th, 2010, 07:08 AM

There is a difference between watching 24fps film in a cinema and watching the same thing on a TV. Though I still don't like the slow frame rates on film either. Good content and camera technique will cover for the occasion juddering background but for me most of the time I find it very disturbing. I have been disappointed with a couple of Bluray discs I have of concerts that were clearly shot with a mix of 30p and 60i cameras, why I don't know as the output to Bluray has to be 60i,60p or 24p in NTSC and one can see the difference immediately. A choice of juddering backgrounds on pans or smooth movement for no apparent gain ( there was plenty of light) eludes me.

Shooting video at 24p to go to film is understandable but to go to broadcast or disc makes little sense for me. To me juddering motion is not art its a defect of the technology maintained by economics of the industry. I happily dumped my film cameras for video and have seen big gains in the quality of the image from motion artifacts and resolution. Images from the new HD cameras are getting very close to the image of "being there" that I strive for in my videos.

Content will always trump any defects ( cell phone video is acceptable if there is nothing else) but for me smooth motion is very important so higher frame rates are it either as interlaced or progressive. Personally there are some things that would have looked a lot better at higher frames rates. I understand that to cover film and TV distribution the original would be shot at 24p the downside of still using technology from the last century in movie theatres. We now have a lot of people wanting the film look and shooting 24p without understanding that the look was to cover for the slow frame rate of film, shoot as if it was video and are disappointed with the outcome!!!! Unfortunately this poor technique has spilled over into the so-called professional area and lots of poorly shot programs are now appearing. In SD on 24" CRT it was less disturbing in HD on a 50" LCD its awful. Modern TV's require a source that is easily scaled to the refresh rate. For NTSC that is 60 or multiple. For 24p to be displayed it either has to be modified ( so it isn't 24p anymore) or get displayed on a refresh rate that is a multiple of 24 ie 120, 240 etc. So there is a difference between watching a film in the cinema with a 3 or 5 blade shutter and watching the same thing on a TV at home.

My choice in programs I watch are 1080i or 720P60 for the HD channels I get in Ottawa.

Ron Evans

Jay West · June 20th, 2010, 12:28 PM

I'm with Ron on the 24p and 30p formats, but the OP asked about 720/60p. I agree that the NX5 yields very nice pictures with 720p/60. It seems to translate down to SD very well for regular DVD distribution. I just do not use it much. This is not because I'm somehow afraid of 720/60p but because I mostly do multi-cam shoots and have only one camera (my NX5) that records 720p/60. All my other cameras shoot 1080iHDV.

Ron Evans · June 20th, 2010, 01:34 PM

I too shoot with other cameras that are 1080i so stay in that format for multicam. Yes the NX5 does shoot nice 720P.

Ron Evans

Tom Hardwick · June 21st, 2010, 01:25 AM

Ron - good post of yours #7 but take a look at it on the screen - one big splodge of text that makes it so difficult to decipher. You'll get more readers (and admirers) if you paragraph it now and then. Just a thought.

tom.

Ron Evans · June 21st, 2010, 05:53 AM

Good comment Tom. There are actually 4 paragraphs but I should put line space between them to make them stand out more especially on a smaller screen( I use a 24" display) .
Ron Evans

Tom Hardwick · June 21st, 2010, 07:31 AM

Say, that's better Ron. Now be brave; chop it up even further - add 3 more line-spaced paragraphs.

Benny Ek · June 21st, 2010, 10:28 AM

I read your post this weekend and decided to shoot my wedding on Saturday at 720 60P
Here is the result. I really like the smoother motion when slowed down. Most of the clips are slowed to about 50-60%
Overall I was pretty impressed by the cameras 720p Capabilities.
I can match it with my Canon T2i 720 60p, so i may end up shooting more in this format.

Scott Cantrell · June 21st, 2010, 02:07 PM

Benny, nice work on the video! The NXCAM keeps amazing me!

June 18th, 2010, 05:25 PM	#1
John Meeks Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Middletown, NY, USA Posts: 106	Why is everyone afraid of 720p? I've seen posts where people are comparing 1080/60i and 1080/30p on this camera. I've tried all 3 modes: 1080/60i, 1080/30p, and 720/60p. The 30p looks horrible, the 60i is decent, but the 720/60p is buttery smooth, probably the best picture I've seen anywhere. The resolution looks the same even on huge screens that I've tried it on. So, you guys should at least try 720p before you pick a format, I think it's the hidden gem of the NX5U.

June 18th, 2010, 09:18 PM	#2
Daniel Paquin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Québec, Canada Posts: 179	I totally agree with you John. I only used two format with this camera todate 720p/60 on FMU and 480 on SDHC card. I am very pleased with the picture I am getting in using 720p/60. Regrds! __________________ Daniel Paquin Production ZoOM vidéo

June 19th, 2010, 01:04 PM	#3
Joe Goldsberry Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Whitman, Mass Posts: 101	I agree. Unless a camera shoots in 1080p 60, 720p will be the best. Don't even bother with 1080p 30. Joe __________________ http://JoeGoldsberry.com

June 21st, 2010, 10:28 AM	#13
Benny Ek Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Orange County, Ca Posts: 140	I read your post this weekend and decided to shoot my wedding on Saturday at 720 60P Here is the result. I really like the smoother motion when slowed down. Most of the clips are slowed to about 50-60% Overall I was pretty impressed by the cameras 720p Capabilities. I can match it with my Canon T2i 720 60p, so i may end up shooting more in this format. Stephanie + Mark ? Same Day Edit, Newport Beach on Vimeo __________________ WWW.BENNYEK.COM Canon C100 ----Sony FX7----Canon HV20----Canon 60D DSLR---Glidecam---Sliders

June 19th, 2010, 01:29 PM	#4
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	I assume you mean with cheaper cameras Joe as thats certainly not the case with broadcast cameras like the PDW700 and F900 for instance - nothing wrong with their 1080/30P. Steve

June 19th, 2010, 06:38 PM	#5
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	I for one do not like the slow frame rates whatever the quality of the camera ( unless there is almost nothing moving very much in the frame) Ron Evans

June 20th, 2010, 03:21 AM	#6
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	That's an odd idea though Ron, what about the Star Wars films that Lucas shot on Sonys, and Collateral was 24P video etc., there've been lots of Hollywood movies in recent years on video at 24P. Plus loads of TV content, wildlife films like Planet Earth. You can't dislike all of them surely? Steve

June 20th, 2010, 07:08 AM	#7
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	There is a difference between watching 24fps film in a cinema and watching the same thing on a TV. Though I still don't like the slow frame rates on film either. Good content and camera technique will cover for the occasion juddering background but for me most of the time I find it very disturbing. I have been disappointed with a couple of Bluray discs I have of concerts that were clearly shot with a mix of 30p and 60i cameras, why I don't know as the output to Bluray has to be 60i,60p or 24p in NTSC and one can see the difference immediately. A choice of juddering backgrounds on pans or smooth movement for no apparent gain ( there was plenty of light) eludes me. Shooting video at 24p to go to film is understandable but to go to broadcast or disc makes little sense for me. To me juddering motion is not art its a defect of the technology maintained by economics of the industry. I happily dumped my film cameras for video and have seen big gains in the quality of the image from motion artifacts and resolution. Images from the new HD cameras are getting very close to the image of "being there" that I strive for in my videos. Content will always trump any defects ( cell phone video is acceptable if there is nothing else) but for me smooth motion is very important so higher frame rates are it either as interlaced or progressive. Personally there are some things that would have looked a lot better at higher frames rates. I understand that to cover film and TV distribution the original would be shot at 24p the downside of still using technology from the last century in movie theatres. We now have a lot of people wanting the film look and shooting 24p without understanding that the look was to cover for the slow frame rate of film, shoot as if it was video and are disappointed with the outcome!!!! Unfortunately this poor technique has spilled over into the so-called professional area and lots of poorly shot programs are now appearing. In SD on 24" CRT it was less disturbing in HD on a 50" LCD its awful. Modern TV's require a source that is easily scaled to the refresh rate. For NTSC that is 60 or multiple. For 24p to be displayed it either has to be modified ( so it isn't 24p anymore) or get displayed on a refresh rate that is a multiple of 24 ie 120, 240 etc. So there is a difference between watching a film in the cinema with a 3 or 5 blade shutter and watching the same thing on a TV at home. My choice in programs I watch are 1080i or 720P60 for the HD channels I get in Ottawa. Ron Evans Last edited by Ron Evans; June 21st, 2010 at 05:55 AM.

June 20th, 2010, 12:28 PM	#8
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	I'm with Ron on the 24p and 30p formats, but the OP asked about 720/60p. I agree that the NX5 yields very nice pictures with 720p/60. It seems to translate down to SD very well for regular DVD distribution. I just do not use it much. This is not because I'm somehow afraid of 720/60p but because I mostly do multi-cam shoots and have only one camera (my NX5) that records 720p/60. All my other cameras shoot 1080iHDV.

June 20th, 2010, 01:34 PM	#9
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	I too shoot with other cameras that are 1080i so stay in that format for multicam. Yes the NX5 does shoot nice 720P. Ron Evans

June 21st, 2010, 01:25 AM	#10
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Ron - good post of yours #7 but take a look at it on the screen - one big splodge of text that makes it so difficult to decipher. You'll get more readers (and admirers) if you paragraph it now and then. Just a thought. tom.

June 21st, 2010, 05:53 AM	#11
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	Good comment Tom. There are actually 4 paragraphs but I should put line space between them to make them stand out more especially on a smaller screen( I use a 24" display) . Ron Evans

June 21st, 2010, 07:31 AM	#12
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Say, that's better Ron. Now be brave; chop it up even further - add 3 more line-spaced paragraphs.

June 21st, 2010, 02:07 PM	#14
Scott Cantrell Sponsor: TapeWorks Texas Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 357	Benny, nice work on the video! The NXCAM keeps amazing me!