FCS2 on one machine, FCS3 on another?

[Mike Watkins]

I recently upgraded from FCS2 to FCS3 on my Mac Pro desktop version. I am considering purchasing an imac as a second computer. Can I install my current copy of FCS2 onto this new machine or will it read as already in use, since it is on my mac pro.

Would I be better off from a licensing standpoint to get a 15" macbook pro? It just seems like I can get more bang for the buck with an Imac. Portability does have it's advantages, however.

Any suggestions?

thanks,

Mike Watkins

[Noah Kadner]

Technically you are licensed for one machine per set of discs. If you run both copies at the same time on the same network one will quit.

Noah

[Jonathan Jones]

Hi Mike,

Since you have upgraded your FCS2 to FCS3, I assume your FCS2 has been overwritten. While it was necessary to validate an upgrade installation, it should no longer be on your system, having been overwritten by the more recent version. I suspect the more recent version also has its own license key, different from the one from your earlier version, and therefore won't conflict if trying to boot up FCS2 on another machine.

This being the case, I can't understand why you wouldn't then be freely able to install your older version onto a second Mac.

Since you are trying to decide on your second Mac being either a laptop or a desktop, you should also note that Apple does allow you to install a single version of FCS onto 1 desktop AND 1 laptop system at the same time, so long as both machines are owned and used by you. BUT they both cannot be running the Suite at the same time - or at least so long as both Macs are on the same network. The application launcher is network aware, and if it senses the Suite running with same serial number on another machine within the same network, it will shut the app down on one of them.

So if you opt for the iMac, you should be able to install your older FCS2 onto it and run it concurrently with FCS3 on your Mac Pro. But if you opt for a new laptop, you can install your FCS3 onto it, but not run it at the same time as when running on your desktop.

As noted in the Apple license agreement:
"This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on one Apple-labeled desktop computer and one Apple-labeled laptop computer so long as both computers are owned and used by you. You may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time. "

One final note: If you decide to run both different versions of FCS on both machines (FCS2 on one machine, and FCS3 on the other), keep in mind that project files generated in FCS3 will generally not be accessible or usable in FCS2. There are some exceptions for some individual element types, but some factors of the project files are differently coded and not backwards compatible between the two versions.


-Jon

[Christopher Drews]

Others may hate me for it but I see no problems with doing this and I can verify it works.
FCP only sees when you're using an identical serial number on the same subnet. Ultimately, I've been in binds where I needed to disable network adaptors to finish a job (hence FCP not able to shut down). I'm not encouraging people to seek out the well known IP hack... that is wrong and everyone should buy FCP legitimately.

Running FCP Studio 2 and FCP Studio 3 on the same network isn't a problem- Apple would not allow you to do this if it were...

Just my 2 cents.
-C

[Boyd Ostroff]

Here's the FCS Software License Agreement: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/do...cutstudio2.pdf. It seems pretty clear...

See Paragraph 3:

"Updates: If an Apple Software update completely replaces (full install) a previously licensed version of the Apple Software, you may not use both versions of the Apple Software at the same time nor may you transfer them separately."

However, you could install your copy of FCS 3 on a laptop as per paragraph 2:

"Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. Apple Software (Bundle) This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on one Apple-labeled desktop computer and one Apple-labeled laptop computer so long as both computers are owned and used by you."

[Christopher Drews]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Jones

One final note: If you decide to run both different versions of FCS on both machines (FCS2 on one machine, and FCS3 on the other), keep in mind that project files generated in FCS3 will generally not be accessible or usable in FCS2.

Actually Jon, this isn't entirely accurate.
When you export XML from FCP 7, it will open up in FCP 6.0.6.
I've been doing this since 7 came out...

-C

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Christopher Drews

Others may hate me for it but I see no problems with doing this

I don't hate you, but I think Apple would say you are violating the license agreement, unless you are using a laptop and desktop which you own.

[Jonathan Jones]

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

Here's the FCS Software License Agreement: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/do...cutstudio2.pdf. It seems pretty clear...

See Paragraph 3:

However, you could install your copy of FCS 3 on a laptop as per paragraph 2:

Thank you for clarifying that Boyd. I wasn't even thinking.

I guess it makes sense from Apple's perspective that since you are updating using a discounted upgrade pricing, the assumed perspective is that the older version simply "no longer exists", and therefore cannot then be installed elsewhere.

I guess that if you are updating with a full install at full purchase price over an older version of a full install, also at full purchase price, you should then be able to install the older version elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Christopher Drews

Actually Jon, this isn't entirely accurate.
When you export XML from FCP 7, it will open up in FCP 6.0.6.
I've been doing this since 7 came out...

-C

Yes, thank you Chris. I was referring primarily to the project file itself. I don't think the actual project file will open, but exporting out via XML should work, minus any factors that are specific only the newer version (I think.) I keep forgetting about how handy the XML file system is.

Thanks again.

-Jon

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Jones

I guess that if you are updating with a full install at full purchase price over an older version of a full install, also at full purchase price, you should then be able to install the older version elsewhere.

Sure, because you would then own two separate licenses; one for version 2 and another for version 3.

[Christopher Drews]

Originally Posted by Boyd Ostroff

I don't hate you, but I think Apple would say you are violating the license agreement, unless you are using a laptop and desktop which you own.

Well, I own the two PC's (non-Apple hardware) which OSx86 is installed on. One is a wind OSx86 laptop, the other is a 2.8 GHz Quad ;)

I'm jaded into thinking that since I purchased the full install of 10.5, I can put Apple's software where I want, regardless of what the SLA says. In fact, it is no easy task to make a PC think it's a Mac. I believe software should be utilized to fit the need and that's what I've done. Currently, Apple doesn't sell a rack-mounted Mac, so I built one.

I'm a certified Apple fanatic and while hackintosh is a hobby, it has opened a whole new world of interest and (another controversial viewpoint) increased Apple's market share in PC users.

Moving forward, Mike's software should be utilized to fit his needs:

Those serial numbers Mike has are legitimate.
He purchased them from Apple.
He can and should be able to do what he wants with them and Apple shouldn't have a say in that.
-C

[Andy Mees]

Originally Posted by Christopher Drews

Others may hate me for it but I see no problems with doing this ... I'm not encouraging people to seek out the well known IP hack... that is wrong and everyone should buy FCP legitimately.

Those serial numbers Mike has are legitimate.
He purchased them from Apple.
He can and should be able to do what he wants with them and Apple shouldn't have a say in that.

I don't hate you for it Chris, but I do wonder how it is with one breath you say you see no problem with doing it and yet with another you say its wrong and everyone should buy FCP legitimately. Seems like quite the contradiction.

As for the latter statements I think its showing a certain amount of either naivety or bloody mindedness (more likely the second reason I think). The serial numbers one purchases are "licenses" for the software. You actually do not "own" that software at all, you have simply licensed the use of it, and as such you are (or you should be) bound by the terms of the license to which you agreed. It is not yours to do with as you wish.


Mike, an upgrade is a dependent of an earlier full license. If you install FCS2 on your iMac then you will effectively be operating a single licensed copy of FCP on two desktop machines ... your iMac (using FCS2) and your MacPro (using FCS2 + FCS3 Upgrade) and, legally speaking, that is breaking the terms of your license agreement. Now, if you don't run them concurrently then I'd bet not even Apple would have any issue with that (despite the SLA) but, if your express reason and intention for installing on both machines is to run them concurrently, well then thats no more nor less than software piracy, and only your own conscience can guide you there.

Hope it helps
Andy

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Christopher Drews

I'm jaded into thinking that since I purchased the full install of 10.5, I can put Apple's software where I want, regardless of what the SLA says.

Unfortunately, threads like this often end badly. Going back to Mike's original post in this thread, he was asking about what his options were within the terms of the SLA. Now you are building a case that it's OK to ignore any part of the SLA with which you don't agree. Apple is very clear about installation of MacOSX: http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf

Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. Single Use. This License allows you to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so.

Do whatever you like; that's a matter between you, your conscience and Apple. But I don't think this is the sort of advice which we should dispense in the DVinfo forums.

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Christopher Drews

I'm jaded into thinking that since I purchased the full install of 10.5, I can put Apple's software where I want, regardless of what the SLA says.

Apple only sell upgrade versions of OS X as it is impossible to purchase a Mac without the operating system. So you did not buy a full version of Leopard you bought an upgrade version for your Mac running Tiger or whatever.

[Nigel Barker]

"Permitted License Uses and Restrictions. A. Apple Software (Bundle) This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on one Apple-labeled desktop computer and one Apple-labeled laptop computer so long as both computers are owned and used by you."

I know that you are licensed to install on both a desktop & a laptop but is it actually possible to use both at the same time as this paragraph implies? AFAIK FCS polls the subnet when it starts & if it finds another instance of FCS with the same serial number it refuses to proceed. Is there some special case when one of the systems is a laptop?

[Nick Gordon]

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

I know that you are licensed to install on both a desktop & a laptop but is it actually possible to use both at the same time as this paragraph implies? AFAIK FCS polls the subnet when it starts & if it finds another instance of FCS with the same serial number it refuses to proceed. Is there some special case when one of the systems is a laptop?

I've just tested this, and it's as you say - I ran FCP on my iMac, and when I started it on my MBP, got a message telling me it couldn't run because another copy with the same serial was running elsewhere on the network.