blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV at DVinfo.net

Dave Lammey · May 16th, 2011, 10:07 AM

Using a recently serviced FX-1, I shot HDV on several Sony miniDV tapes the other night ... all of the tapes came out fine, except for one, which shows only a blue screen on playback -- although the time code runs while playing. And when is push FF or REW while playing, I can see recorded footage.

I have tried playing this tape on the same camera that it was shot with, and on different cameras. Same result.

I shot another tape successfully on the same camera right after this tape, too. (in other words, no playback problems with the later tape on same camera).

I've done a search through the archives and this has cropped up before with other cameras, but there didn't appear to be many solutions. So before I send the tape to Sony Media Services, I was hoping someone might be able to chime in with (1) a suggestion about how to rescue the footage, and (2) any suggestion as to why this happened.

Thanks.

Chris Soucy · May 16th, 2011, 02:46 PM

Hi, Dave.................

I don't know how many instances of this BSOD situation you found, but I've seen nearly 30 in the last 3 or 4 years.

They all share a very similar MO: 1, 2 or 3 tapes out of N, always show vid on FF or REW, never is a reason found, nor a fix discovered.

Bit like Death and Taxes, they just happen.

Not too many people prepared or competent to start realigning tape heads on the fly to try to get these tapes to read, so it's over to the pro's, simple as that.

Sorry I can't be the bearer of better news.

Good luck.

CS

Dave Lammey · May 17th, 2011, 08:31 AM

Thanks Chris. I'll be sending the tape out to Sony Media Services and hoping for a miracle.

Wayne Dear · May 19th, 2011, 09:46 PM

Good Luck,

Hope they can retrieve your footage for you, when this happened to me, I explained it to my client, and they were not to fussed as I was filming football at the time and it was only 10 minutes in 3rd quarter I lost, but If I was filming an important once of occasion like a Wedding or something of the like, I would defiantly be sending it to Sony recovery like you are, I would think that they will be able to retrieve the footage though as technically it is still there on the tape.

BTW this is what Sony tried to tell me once I emailed them about it ----

1) Tape recording -
The symptom described by the customer appears to be dropout.
Dropout is a loss of signal on the tape and when using tape, dropout cannot be completely eliminated.
Dropout is caused by dirt/dust particles that get into the tape mechanism, for example, when inserting or removing a tape.
HDV is a high compression format using long GOP. (Group of pictures)
A long GOP consists of 15 frames. Therefore, the slightest dropout (even a micro second)will result in a minimum loss of 15 frames, hence, a freeze of 15 frames during playback.
Therefore it is important to use tape designed for HDV as these tapes are normally double layer to help reduce dropout.
HDV tape also has a limited re-use life.

They make us sound like idiots, and what this tech guy is saying you shouldn't be using normal tapes for HDV recording, I have been using normal tapes for along time and never had an issue, but when I was filming weddings I would buy the HDV quality tapes to eliminate any risk.

Now though I have made the switch to memory card and use tape as precautionary backup if memory card was to fail.

Cheers

Wayne Dear

Dave Lammey · May 20th, 2011, 06:38 AM

Thanks for the info, Wayne. I have been using the premium miniDV tapes since 2006 and sure, I got occasional dropouts (losing 7-8 seconds of footage), but I've never had an entire tape dropout, like this.

I've also used HDV tape before and if I recall, I had a minor dropout on one of those too, so I figured there wasn't any difference and stayed with the premium tapes. But now, after this disaster, I will be switching to the HDV tapes in the hopes that at least they will prevent an entire tape from dropping out.

I can't wait to switch to a non-tape solution.

Adam Gold · May 20th, 2011, 10:51 AM

I'm pretty sure what you're describing is not a dropout. It's a case of head misalignment as Chris has described. Nothing to do with dropouts or tape quality at all, as far as I know. As you've seen in FF or REW mode, the signal is there, just not being read in PLAY mode. In a dropout the oxide is gone and there is no signal at all, and it is momentary. A totally different problem.

BTW, you can hook up an MRC1k to your FX1 and be tapeless in moments.

Dave Lammey · May 24th, 2011, 02:13 PM

Thanks Adam. If it is a head misalignment problem, I assume I should be getting the camera serviced -- even though it was just serviced. Of course, the folks at Mack may have done something wrong.

But as I said, I shot several tapes before this without incident, and several tapes after. If it''s a head misalignment problem, would it only crop up sporadically?

I'll be looking into that MRC1k ...

Adam Gold · May 24th, 2011, 05:14 PM

No one's ever been able to definitevely explain this problem, although it does crop up from time to time. The irony is, the tapes that play fine now may no longer play if the heads are re-aligned. If that is indeed what it is.

Let's just hope Sony can recover your data.

Dave Lammey · May 24th, 2011, 05:42 PM

Thanks Adam.

Michael Bradshaw · June 23rd, 2011, 08:04 PM

this happened to me with a wedding I recorded on z1's a few years ago. I went back to capture a tape I had forgotten about and my hdv deck would only show video when ff or rewinding.

I used one of my z7's and it was fine. No explanation but it might be worth trying as many other cameras as possible.

M.

Dave Lammey · June 24th, 2011, 02:37 PM

thanks Michael. I have tried to play it on several different HDV cameras and nothing works.

Unfortunately, just got word back from Sony Media Services:

"We’re sorry to tell you that there was no recovery possible due to the fact that the tape was not loaded correctly by the camera used to record footage."

So, looks like the footage is lost. Maybe I should try it on a Z7 ...

Wayne Dear · June 27th, 2011, 02:11 AM

I recently solved this issue with Sony, I had multiple tapes dropping footage from x2 Z7's, and the one field record on a couple of tapes, came to be a batch of faulty tapes, so they replaced the tapes I had left from the order, about 200 all up, upon using the new stock from Sony, no issues at all.

First time I have ever experienced a batch of bad tapes.

I record onto tape now just as backup, as I have moved to Compact Flash recording now.

Cheers

May 16th, 2011, 10:07 AM	#1
Dave Lammey Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Simsbury, CT Posts: 247	blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV Using a recently serviced FX-1, I shot HDV on several Sony miniDV tapes the other night ... all of the tapes came out fine, except for one, which shows only a blue screen on playback -- although the time code runs while playing. And when is push FF or REW while playing, I can see recorded footage. I have tried playing this tape on the same camera that it was shot with, and on different cameras. Same result. I shot another tape successfully on the same camera right after this tape, too. (in other words, no playback problems with the later tape on same camera). I've done a search through the archives and this has cropped up before with other cameras, but there didn't appear to be many solutions. So before I send the tape to Sony Media Services, I was hoping someone might be able to chime in with (1) a suggestion about how to rescue the footage, and (2) any suggestion as to why this happened. Thanks.

May 16th, 2011, 02:46 PM	#2
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV Hi, Dave................. I don't know how many instances of this BSOD situation you found, but I've seen nearly 30 in the last 3 or 4 years. They all share a very similar MO: 1, 2 or 3 tapes out of N, always show vid on FF or REW, never is a reason found, nor a fix discovered. Bit like Death and Taxes, they just happen. Not too many people prepared or competent to start realigning tape heads on the fly to try to get these tapes to read, so it's over to the pro's, simple as that. Sorry I can't be the bearer of better news. Good luck. CS

May 17th, 2011, 08:31 AM	#3
Dave Lammey Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Simsbury, CT Posts: 247	Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV Thanks Chris. I'll be sending the tape out to Sony Media Services and hoping for a miracle.

May 19th, 2011, 09:46 PM	#4
Wayne Dear Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Albury NSW Posts: 46	Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV Good Luck, Hope they can retrieve your footage for you, when this happened to me, I explained it to my client, and they were not to fussed as I was filming football at the time and it was only 10 minutes in 3rd quarter I lost, but If I was filming an important once of occasion like a Wedding or something of the like, I would defiantly be sending it to Sony recovery like you are, I would think that they will be able to retrieve the footage though as technically it is still there on the tape. BTW this is what Sony tried to tell me once I emailed them about it ---- 1) Tape recording - The symptom described by the customer appears to be dropout. Dropout is a loss of signal on the tape and when using tape, dropout cannot be completely eliminated. Dropout is caused by dirt/dust particles that get into the tape mechanism, for example, when inserting or removing a tape. HDV is a high compression format using long GOP. (Group of pictures) A long GOP consists of 15 frames. Therefore, the slightest dropout (even a micro second)will result in a minimum loss of 15 frames, hence, a freeze of 15 frames during playback. Therefore it is important to use tape designed for HDV as these tapes are normally double layer to help reduce dropout. HDV tape also has a limited re-use life. They make us sound like idiots, and what this tech guy is saying you shouldn't be using normal tapes for HDV recording, I have been using normal tapes for along time and never had an issue, but when I was filming weddings I would buy the HDV quality tapes to eliminate any risk. Now though I have made the switch to memory card and use tape as precautionary backup if memory card was to fail. Cheers Wayne Dear

May 20th, 2011, 06:38 AM	#5
Dave Lammey Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Simsbury, CT Posts: 247	Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV Thanks for the info, Wayne. I have been using the premium miniDV tapes since 2006 and sure, I got occasional dropouts (losing 7-8 seconds of footage), but I've never had an entire tape dropout, like this. I've also used HDV tape before and if I recall, I had a minor dropout on one of those too, so I figured there wasn't any difference and stayed with the premium tapes. But now, after this disaster, I will be switching to the HDV tapes in the hopes that at least they will prevent an entire tape from dropping out. I can't wait to switch to a non-tape solution.

May 20th, 2011, 10:51 AM	#6
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV I'm pretty sure what you're describing is not a dropout. It's a case of head misalignment as Chris has described. Nothing to do with dropouts or tape quality at all, as far as I know. As you've seen in FF or REW mode, the signal is there, just not being read in PLAY mode. In a dropout the oxide is gone and there is no signal at all, and it is momentary. A totally different problem. BTW, you can hook up an MRC1k to your FX1 and be tapeless in moments. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error." Last edited by Adam Gold; May 20th, 2011 at 10:18 PM.

May 24th, 2011, 02:13 PM	#7
Dave Lammey Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Simsbury, CT Posts: 247	Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV Thanks Adam. If it is a head misalignment problem, I assume I should be getting the camera serviced -- even though it was just serviced. Of course, the folks at Mack may have done something wrong. But as I said, I shot several tapes before this without incident, and several tapes after. If it''s a head misalignment problem, would it only crop up sporadically? I'll be looking into that MRC1k ...

May 24th, 2011, 05:14 PM	#8
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV No one's ever been able to definitevely explain this problem, although it does crop up from time to time. The irony is, the tapes that play fine now may no longer play if the heads are re-aligned. If that is indeed what it is. Let's just hope Sony can recover your data. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

May 24th, 2011, 05:42 PM	#9
Dave Lammey Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Simsbury, CT Posts: 247	Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV Thanks Adam.

June 23rd, 2011, 08:04 PM	#10
Michael Bradshaw Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Newtownabbey, UK Posts: 66	Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV this happened to me with a wedding I recorded on z1's a few years ago. I went back to capture a tape I had forgotten about and my hdv deck would only show video when ff or rewinding. I used one of my z7's and it was fine. No explanation but it might be worth trying as many other cameras as possible. M.

June 24th, 2011, 02:37 PM	#11
Dave Lammey Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Simsbury, CT Posts: 247	Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV thanks Michael. I have tried to play it on several different HDV cameras and nothing works. Unfortunately, just got word back from Sony Media Services: "We’re sorry to tell you that there was no recovery possible due to the fact that the tape was not loaded correctly by the camera used to record footage." So, looks like the footage is lost. Maybe I should try it on a Z7 ...

June 27th, 2011, 02:11 AM	#12
Wayne Dear Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Albury NSW Posts: 46	Re: blue screen on playback, not on FF or REV I recently solved this issue with Sony, I had multiple tapes dropping footage from x2 Z7's, and the one field record on a couple of tapes, came to be a batch of faulty tapes, so they replaced the tapes I had left from the order, about 200 all up, upon using the new stock from Sony, no issues at all. First time I have ever experienced a batch of bad tapes. I record onto tape now just as backup, as I have moved to Compact Flash recording now. Cheers