LS300 Honeymoon over

Noa Put · November 10th, 2015, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Rosen

Noa: I think you'll be very happy

I know soon as I have found a store that rents the camera about an hours drive from my place, I"ll combine it with a city trip, in this way I have a day to test the camera with several of my lenses. It will cost me 90 euro to rent the camera but rather that then paying 3,5k and not being satisfied with it.

Steve Rosen · November 10th, 2015, 12:30 PM

Try to test the one you buy at the store if you can - don't get me wrong, I love this camera more every day I use it (and I've used a LOT of cameras) but JVC's quality control is the issue, not the design or concept.

Noa Put · November 10th, 2015, 01:10 PM

The store I was planning to buy from is one with a good reputation and they have 8 bigger video/photostores in 2 countries. They only don't rent this camera, we also don't have that return policy that I often hear about in the states where you can send back the camera if you don't like it or if you want to have it replaced with another model (unless I understood that wrong). If I order online there is a 2 week "change of mind period" BUT the camera has to be returned in a unopened box, if they see the camera has been taken out or used you pay for it. Here you basically keep what you pay for. We do have a 2 year warranty on all products so malfunctions are covered during this period and then it's just a matter to send to the store and they deal further with it.

I"m actually a bit more concerned if it's the right camera for me in terms of using it in fast changing environments, I don't mind changing iso, iris, shutter, nd and focus all manually, in fact I prefer to work in this way but I do run into situations where I need to be able to react quick to get a shot and then it's nice to have a camera that allows you do that.

To give an example, my sony nex-ea50, which I sold a year ago had a switch with 3 presets to assign ISO to just like the ls300, I had this on my canon xh-a1 before that too and then you assigned 0, 3 and 6db gain as anything higher was unusable anyway. Only today with large sensor camera's you have a much higher iso range to use so being able to scroll easily throughout the iso range has been very important in my use of my camera's. My rx10 for instance has a scroll wheel on the back that when rotated scrolls quickly through all iso values during video recording making quick exposure adjustments very easy. On my ea50 I only could choose 3 and I had to change these values in the menu depending on the light which was a big pain. Sometimes I wanted to have my lens wide open for that shallow dof effect but I had the wrong iso values assigned to teh switches so had to go back into the menu, reassign 3 other and see if they allowed me to shoot at a certain f-stop, that only works if you have time.

Not sure how the ls300 can deal with this?

Lee Powell · November 10th, 2015, 01:35 PM

The LS300 is not an ISO queen like a Sony or Nikon DSLR. It starts at ISO 400 and is good up to 1600, acceptable with noise reduction in post up to 3200. In practice, I preset the ISO switch with L at 400, M at 800, and H on auto-ISO with a max limit of either 1600 or 3200. The best way I've found to fine-tune exposure is using a lens or adapter with a declicked aperture ring. Shutter speed can be changed quickly, but I normally keep that fixed.

Noa Put · November 10th, 2015, 01:43 PM

That's the problem with switch presets, if you want to shoot wide open with your lens you select the appropriate ND depending on the light, the shutter should be locked and ideally adjust your iso to get the epxosure close to where it needs to be and then finetune with a lens that preferably has a declicked iris ring. Only with fixed iso values and only 3 to choose from one can be too high and the other can be too low so you need to go into the menu and re assign to test again and that is not what I want.

Steve Rosen · November 10th, 2015, 02:08 PM

As I said above, I spent most of my professional life shooting film. You literally had to change film magazines to change ASA - on exteriors you could of course use NDs, but most didn't like adding glass to a zoom lens, that's why I've nearly given up on my BM cameras.

Although I don't shoot much in low light these days, I find that setting my ISO presets to 400, 800 and 1600 covers most of my needs, and I keep the Nokton 17.5 f.95 nearby. There is a "LowLux" User button that zaps it up to (I think) 6400. And it is startling! (I've deactivated it on my camera, setting another feature to that button)

With native MFT lenses the auto functions work quite well, especially focus. Auto exposure DOES NOT work when shooting J-Log though (but J-Log probably isn't the best choice for low light shooting anyway, I'd go with Cine Gamma and Cine Color Subdued instead).

I'm not thrilled with the sluggishness of the manual iris knob. As you turn it it seems to take several seconds to react sometimes. Also, looking from the back, it turns counter-clockwise to open and clockwise to close, opposite of how I've always set controls like this, and it's apparently locked in - that drives me nuts. And the Metabones EF adapter is a paperweight in my office. There is a cheapo $69 EF to MFT adapter with a built in iris that works pretty well - it vignettes at about f8 (don't know for sure, because there aren't any markings) but I prefer it over the $400 Metabones.

The best all around option is a good manual lens. I have several S16s, but they aren't par focal on this camera (I do not know why). But a good medium wide full frame 28 or 35mm prime is a great way to work - I have the Leica-R 35. With the prime zoom set at 100% that lens gives me a nice 2 1/2 range and doesn't shift focus or aperture. I may check into some the other fast Voightlander lenses, or maybe the Rokinons.

BTW - the new Sony FS5 has a version of VSM and a variable ND - E mount though. so MFT is out with that one.

The LS300 is far from being perfect, but so far it's the only MFT mount horse in the corral.

Noa Put · November 10th, 2015, 02:18 PM

How does the autofocus work? With my gh4 I usually press the shutterbutton to lock the focus before I start shooting and during shooting, if needed I press and hold the shutter button for it to refocus. How does the LS300 focus automatically, is it continuous? Is there touch focus on the lcd screen?

Also, the manual iris adjustment knob, does it only work with native m4/3 lenses?

Is there also a button that can take the camera in a "all auto mode"? This is not how I prefer to deal with camera settings but there are some times where you need to get a shot in a blink of an eye and a camera can much quicker set shutter, iris and iso to a value that comes real close so you can focus on framing and getting the shot and when that is done switch back to manual for fine controll.

Steve Rosen · November 10th, 2015, 07:12 PM

The auto focus works very well - I can't compare it to others because I've never used it before, but I do on this camera because my zooms aren't acting parfocal, so I need auto when wide.

It also has face recognition, which I guess is standard now, but I haven't ever used it before either. It works very well as long as the face is - well - facing you.

The auto tracks well, but doesn't seem to jump forward when something passes close to the camera. That's good. I used it a lot shooting a marathon over the weekend and was very happy with the result.

And, yes, there is a switch that offers preset and all auto, which I assume is customizable in the menu. I have put gaffers tape on mine so I don't accidentally switch it pulling the camera out of the bag.

Lee Powell · November 10th, 2015, 07:29 PM

The LS300 has continuous auto-focus with MFT lenses and the legacy Four Thirds lenses I've tried (using an active adapter of course.) There's a default AF/MF button on the side that toggles it on and off, as well as a Full Auto Mode switch that automates focus and exposure as well. I've had good auto results with the Olympus 18-50mm f2.8 legacy Four Thirds zoom, which happens to be parfocal and works without vignetting at 100% VSM. Another good auto zoom for the LS300 is the Panasonic 45-175mm f4-5.6 Power Zoom, not parfocal but works with the zoom rocker on top of the microphone handle. However, the LS300 cannot turn on the OIS in this or any other MFT lens I've tested.

Manual electronic iris control on the LS300 continues to be problematic with the 2.0 firmware update. It works but is sluggish with MFT lenses and displays erratic and erroneous aperture readings when used to control legacy Four Thirds lenses. Panasonic made two Leica Four Thirds lenses with manual aperture rings, a 14-50mm f2.8-3.5 and a 25mm f1.4. These lenses are currently incompatible with the LS300.

I haven't tested Canon EF lenses or Panasonic 12-35mm and 35-100m f2.8 zooms, so I can't comment on their auto-focus perfomance or OIS support with the LS300.

John Nantz · November 10th, 2015, 09:28 PM

To help with finding a lens that will fit, this micro 4/3 lens page at The Complete Micro 4/3 Lens List has a lot of information about lenses. Just noticed that it has been updated to November 2015.

The Nikon adapter is thiner than the other adapters so would bring the lens closer to the camera body for better balance. I’ve got a couple Nikon lenses so this was of interest to me.

A question I had was, what would be a good power zoom lens?

As I write this, eBay (US) has a couple LS300 cams w/ lens starting bid at $2,500.

Steve Rosen · November 10th, 2015, 10:14 PM

I'm sorry to see EBay ads like that.. it undoubtedly means the ultimate and untimely doom of this camera. Well, as long as mine keeps working I'll laugh all the way to the bank...

Noa Put · November 11th, 2015, 02:38 AM

Thx a lot for all the info!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Powell

However, the LS300 cannot turn on the OIS in this or any other MFT lens I've tested.

ok, just to be sure because this is important, does OIS not work at all with stabilised lenses?? Some lenses require a switch on the lens to activate/deactivate the OIS, like the 12-35mm and others like my 42,5mm panasonic lens doesn't have a switch and always has OIS activated.

If stabilisation doesn't work on any lens with build in stabilisation then the camera is useless to me.

Duncan Craig · November 11th, 2015, 07:02 AM

I've just bought the Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100 f2.8 set for my LS300.
The OIS is working fine, and switchable on the lens.

Lovely lenses, and so lightweight. I bought them new from eBay UK for £449 and £515 - probably some kind of kit lens sell off but at that price (nearly half RRP) not a problem. And they do come with a one year seller warranty, the standard retail box and accessories.

The iris does 'adjust' as you zoom so there are slight visible bumps in exposure.
Contrary to other's experience, on my lenses the exposure seems constant throughout the zoom range, if there is a drop it's tiny.
The camera is aware of were in the zoom range the lens is set, and shows a zoom scale on the viewfinders - nice.

Phil Goetz · November 11th, 2015, 07:28 AM

When I was with Omega Broadcast I sold William Ridenour an LS300. He is conversational and a god resource for info:

https://www.youtube.com/user/avarmadillo/videos

Steve Rosen · November 11th, 2015, 10:17 AM

Noa: The OIS seems to work on Lumix lenses - but Panasonic OIS is notoriously inadequate I'm told. It's another of those things I seldom if ever use, but I have occasionally with the EF-S 17-55, and it's excellent on a heavily loaded camera like my C100. However, as mentioned above, OIS doesn't work with Canon lenses on the LS300.

As both Duncan and I mentioned, the iris control continues to be sluggish. This is probably the worst fast-working issue with this camera. I haven't had erroneous f stop readouts, but I have had the experience many times of cranking way past where I intended to go, had a nearly black screen, then had to back off... because the readout doesn't display correctly until well AFTER you have stopped twisting the dial - it wouldn't be so bad if auto exposure worked in Log so you could let the camera set the exposure, then turn it off - that just has to be fixable. For instance, the iris control on the cheap little Pocket Cinema Camera is very quick and positive, even with a Metabones Speedbooster, although it works in annoying steps.

Unfortunately, with all the industry negativity surrounding this camera, JVC probably isn't going to follow up with a lot of firmware upgrades like BM does.

Again, my solution is to explore the option of using good manual prime lenses with the Prime Zoom feature. I tried a friend's Rokinon 85 last night, and it looked good at 100%, but not so good at 43% (it would be too long anyway). My Leica-R Summarit 35mm is excellent throughout and I can set the max @ 100%, but it's a wee too long at 100%. The Nokton 17.5 needs to be set at 92%, and it looks pretty good throughout, but gets iffy around f1.4 at 43%. I think the perfect lens would be a fast 25mm like the Nokton. Unfortunately that lens is an MFT, which probably means the widest I could go on the VSM would be 92%, like the 17.5, which limits the range slightly... If it covers at 100% I'll buy it. Anyone out there know?

November 10th, 2015, 12:30 PM	#32
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Try to test the one you buy at the store if you can - don't get me wrong, I love this camera more every day I use it (and I've used a LOT of cameras) but JVC's quality control is the issue, not the design or concept.

November 10th, 2015, 01:10 PM	#33
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over The store I was planning to buy from is one with a good reputation and they have 8 bigger video/photostores in 2 countries. They only don't rent this camera, we also don't have that return policy that I often hear about in the states where you can send back the camera if you don't like it or if you want to have it replaced with another model (unless I understood that wrong). If I order online there is a 2 week "change of mind period" BUT the camera has to be returned in a unopened box, if they see the camera has been taken out or used you pay for it. Here you basically keep what you pay for. We do have a 2 year warranty on all products so malfunctions are covered during this period and then it's just a matter to send to the store and they deal further with it. I"m actually a bit more concerned if it's the right camera for me in terms of using it in fast changing environments, I don't mind changing iso, iris, shutter, nd and focus all manually, in fact I prefer to work in this way but I do run into situations where I need to be able to react quick to get a shot and then it's nice to have a camera that allows you do that. To give an example, my sony nex-ea50, which I sold a year ago had a switch with 3 presets to assign ISO to just like the ls300, I had this on my canon xh-a1 before that too and then you assigned 0, 3 and 6db gain as anything higher was unusable anyway. Only today with large sensor camera's you have a much higher iso range to use so being able to scroll easily throughout the iso range has been very important in my use of my camera's. My rx10 for instance has a scroll wheel on the back that when rotated scrolls quickly through all iso values during video recording making quick exposure adjustments very easy. On my ea50 I only could choose 3 and I had to change these values in the menu depending on the light which was a big pain. Sometimes I wanted to have my lens wide open for that shallow dof effect but I had the wrong iso values assigned to teh switches so had to go back into the menu, reassign 3 other and see if they allowed me to shoot at a certain f-stop, that only works if you have time. Not sure how the ls300 can deal with this?

November 10th, 2015, 01:35 PM	#34
Lee Powell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 133	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over The LS300 is not an ISO queen like a Sony or Nikon DSLR. It starts at ISO 400 and is good up to 1600, acceptable with noise reduction in post up to 3200. In practice, I preset the ISO switch with L at 400, M at 800, and H on auto-ISO with a max limit of either 1600 or 3200. The best way I've found to fine-tune exposure is using a lens or adapter with a declicked aperture ring. Shutter speed can be changed quickly, but I normally keep that fixed.

November 10th, 2015, 01:43 PM	#35
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over That's the problem with switch presets, if you want to shoot wide open with your lens you select the appropriate ND depending on the light, the shutter should be locked and ideally adjust your iso to get the epxosure close to where it needs to be and then finetune with a lens that preferably has a declicked iris ring. Only with fixed iso values and only 3 to choose from one can be too high and the other can be too low so you need to go into the menu and re assign to test again and that is not what I want.

November 10th, 2015, 02:08 PM	#36
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over As I said above, I spent most of my professional life shooting film. You literally had to change film magazines to change ASA - on exteriors you could of course use NDs, but most didn't like adding glass to a zoom lens, that's why I've nearly given up on my BM cameras. Although I don't shoot much in low light these days, I find that setting my ISO presets to 400, 800 and 1600 covers most of my needs, and I keep the Nokton 17.5 f.95 nearby. There is a "LowLux" User button that zaps it up to (I think) 6400. And it is startling! (I've deactivated it on my camera, setting another feature to that button) With native MFT lenses the auto functions work quite well, especially focus. Auto exposure DOES NOT work when shooting J-Log though (but J-Log probably isn't the best choice for low light shooting anyway, I'd go with Cine Gamma and Cine Color Subdued instead). I'm not thrilled with the sluggishness of the manual iris knob. As you turn it it seems to take several seconds to react sometimes. Also, looking from the back, it turns counter-clockwise to open and clockwise to close, opposite of how I've always set controls like this, and it's apparently locked in - that drives me nuts. And the Metabones EF adapter is a paperweight in my office. There is a cheapo $69 EF to MFT adapter with a built in iris that works pretty well - it vignettes at about f8 (don't know for sure, because there aren't any markings) but I prefer it over the $400 Metabones. The best all around option is a good manual lens. I have several S16s, but they aren't par focal on this camera (I do not know why). But a good medium wide full frame 28 or 35mm prime is a great way to work - I have the Leica-R 35. With the prime zoom set at 100% that lens gives me a nice 2 1/2 range and doesn't shift focus or aperture. I may check into some the other fast Voightlander lenses, or maybe the Rokinons. BTW - the new Sony FS5 has a version of VSM and a variable ND - E mount though. so MFT is out with that one. The LS300 is far from being perfect, but so far it's the only MFT mount horse in the corral. Last edited by Steve Rosen; November 10th, 2015 at 02:21 PM. Reason: BTW

November 10th, 2015, 02:18 PM	#37
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over How does the autofocus work? With my gh4 I usually press the shutterbutton to lock the focus before I start shooting and during shooting, if needed I press and hold the shutter button for it to refocus. How does the LS300 focus automatically, is it continuous? Is there touch focus on the lcd screen? Also, the manual iris adjustment knob, does it only work with native m4/3 lenses? Is there also a button that can take the camera in a "all auto mode"? This is not how I prefer to deal with camera settings but there are some times where you need to get a shot in a blink of an eye and a camera can much quicker set shutter, iris and iso to a value that comes real close so you can focus on framing and getting the shot and when that is done switch back to manual for fine controll.

November 10th, 2015, 07:12 PM	#38
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over The auto focus works very well - I can't compare it to others because I've never used it before, but I do on this camera because my zooms aren't acting parfocal, so I need auto when wide. It also has face recognition, which I guess is standard now, but I haven't ever used it before either. It works very well as long as the face is - well - facing you. The auto tracks well, but doesn't seem to jump forward when something passes close to the camera. That's good. I used it a lot shooting a marathon over the weekend and was very happy with the result. And, yes, there is a switch that offers preset and all auto, which I assume is customizable in the menu. I have put gaffers tape on mine so I don't accidentally switch it pulling the camera out of the bag.

November 10th, 2015, 07:29 PM	#39
Lee Powell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 133	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over The LS300 has continuous auto-focus with MFT lenses and the legacy Four Thirds lenses I've tried (using an active adapter of course.) There's a default AF/MF button on the side that toggles it on and off, as well as a Full Auto Mode switch that automates focus and exposure as well. I've had good auto results with the Olympus 18-50mm f2.8 legacy Four Thirds zoom, which happens to be parfocal and works without vignetting at 100% VSM. Another good auto zoom for the LS300 is the Panasonic 45-175mm f4-5.6 Power Zoom, not parfocal but works with the zoom rocker on top of the microphone handle. However, the LS300 cannot turn on the OIS in this or any other MFT lens I've tested. Manual electronic iris control on the LS300 continues to be problematic with the 2.0 firmware update. It works but is sluggish with MFT lenses and displays erratic and erroneous aperture readings when used to control legacy Four Thirds lenses. Panasonic made two Leica Four Thirds lenses with manual aperture rings, a 14-50mm f2.8-3.5 and a 25mm f1.4. These lenses are currently incompatible with the LS300. I haven't tested Canon EF lenses or Panasonic 12-35mm and 35-100m f2.8 zooms, so I can't comment on their auto-focus perfomance or OIS support with the LS300.

November 10th, 2015, 09:28 PM	#40
John Nantz Trustee Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 1,254	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over To help with finding a lens that will fit, this micro 4/3 lens page at The Complete Micro 4/3 Lens List has a lot of information about lenses. Just noticed that it has been updated to November 2015. The Nikon adapter is thiner than the other adapters so would bring the lens closer to the camera body for better balance. I’ve got a couple Nikon lenses so this was of interest to me. A question I had was, what would be a good power zoom lens? As I write this, eBay (US) has a couple LS300 cams w/ lens starting bid at $2,500.

November 10th, 2015, 10:14 PM	#41
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over I'm sorry to see EBay ads like that.. it undoubtedly means the ultimate and untimely doom of this camera. Well, as long as mine keeps working I'll laugh all the way to the bank...

November 11th, 2015, 07:02 AM	#43
Duncan Craig Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 660 Images: 10	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over I've just bought the Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100 f2.8 set for my LS300. The OIS is working fine, and switchable on the lens. Lovely lenses, and so lightweight. I bought them new from eBay UK for £449 and £515 - probably some kind of kit lens sell off but at that price (nearly half RRP) not a problem. And they do come with a one year seller warranty, the standard retail box and accessories. The iris does 'adjust' as you zoom so there are slight visible bumps in exposure. Contrary to other's experience, on my lenses the exposure seems constant throughout the zoom range, if there is a drop it's tiny. The camera is aware of were in the zoom range the lens is set, and shows a zoom scale on the viewfinders - nice. __________________ FCPX/LS300/EX1/FS100/GoPro/Vinten/HotHead/Jib/Track/Dedos/Lightstorm/Coollights Last edited by Duncan Craig; November 11th, 2015 at 07:14 AM. Reason: Added stuff

November 11th, 2015, 07:28 AM	#44
Phil Goetz Austinite Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Austin Posts: 550	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over When I was with Omega Broadcast I sold William Ridenour an LS300. He is conversational and a god resource for info: https://www.youtube.com/user/avarmadillo/videos

November 11th, 2015, 10:17 AM	#45
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Noa: The OIS seems to work on Lumix lenses - but Panasonic OIS is notoriously inadequate I'm told. It's another of those things I seldom if ever use, but I have occasionally with the EF-S 17-55, and it's excellent on a heavily loaded camera like my C100. However, as mentioned above, OIS doesn't work with Canon lenses on the LS300. As both Duncan and I mentioned, the iris control continues to be sluggish. This is probably the worst fast-working issue with this camera. I haven't had erroneous f stop readouts, but I have had the experience many times of cranking way past where I intended to go, had a nearly black screen, then had to back off... because the readout doesn't display correctly until well AFTER you have stopped twisting the dial - it wouldn't be so bad if auto exposure worked in Log so you could let the camera set the exposure, then turn it off - that just has to be fixable. For instance, the iris control on the cheap little Pocket Cinema Camera is very quick and positive, even with a Metabones Speedbooster, although it works in annoying steps. Unfortunately, with all the industry negativity surrounding this camera, JVC probably isn't going to follow up with a lot of firmware upgrades like BM does. Again, my solution is to explore the option of using good manual prime lenses with the Prime Zoom feature. I tried a friend's Rokinon 85 last night, and it looked good at 100%, but not so good at 43% (it would be too long anyway). My Leica-R Summarit 35mm is excellent throughout and I can set the max @ 100%, but it's a wee too long at 100%. The Nokton 17.5 needs to be set at 92%, and it looks pretty good throughout, but gets iffy around f1.4 at 43%. I think the perfect lens would be a fast 25mm like the Nokton. Unfortunately that lens is an MFT, which probably means the widest I could go on the VSM would be 92%, like the 17.5, which limits the range slightly... If it covers at 100% I'll buy it. Anyone out there know?